 Poster: A snowHead
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| Sack the Juggler wrote: |
| Spyderman wrote: |
| Sack the Juggler wrote: |
I've tried to understand this weight lifters stance, but I just can't get my head around it as its a very static, solid base, whereas skiing is more fluid and dynamic so I'm finding it hard to visualise, especially when throwing yourself down the slopes.
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Another analogy for you then; Imaging you're standing on a high wall and jump off, how would you land? |
Awkwardly?  |
You'd hopefully land using your legs to absorb the impact, flexing at the ankle, knee and hip joints, keeping your hips above your feet. Arms will be forward and out to the side.
Try it, just jump off of anything and think about your body posture on landing. Ski using the same body posture. |
cheers spydie - that really helps, might even try a few standing jumps whilst in my skis to create a memory effect
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Sack the Juggler wrote: |
cheers spydie - that really helps, might even try a few standing jumps whilst in my skis to create a memory effect |
Try repeated jumps whilst straight running on a gentle slope, use your legs like springs, compress then extend, with a soft landing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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repeated jumps whilst straight running on a gentle slope, use your legs like springs, compress then extend, with a soft landing.
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that's my standard o dear it's cold the snow's horrible I can't see I've forgotten how to ski my goggles are misting up how long till i can decently stop for a vin chaud exercise. Never fails.
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I find that the when my Quads and hamstrings are more balanced my ability to maintain (recover to) a good stance is improved. Just beefing up the quads alone delays the quad burn but it doesn't feel as graceful or efficient. You could try some hamstring exercises on a BOSU / balance ball to see if it makes a difference.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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DB, good point. Can do them without a ball - do a Pilates bridge (http://eu.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-do-a-basic-pilates-bridge.html) but add a leg lift - lift one foot and hold it out straight, work up to a 60 seconds hold, and repeat with the other leg. It's best not to try to do them both at once. 
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pam w,
Good point, best not to try lifting both legs until up after a significant intake of Stroh 80.
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Sack the Juggler,
Plenty of good advise on technique and conditioning so I'm gonna take the blame the gear approach. I'm not sugesting it is a substitute for good technique it just might make it easier.
What bindings do you use?
It is possible that they have to much ramp or delta. This varies between binding manufacturers and what is best for you depends on your biomechanical make up.
If you heel piece is higher than the toe it will tilt you forward. If this is to much you might compensate by leaning back and making your quads work too much.
I have had my alignment checked and on the skis which have my correct prescription toe 2mm lower than heel (or on those with 0mm) I get less burn than those with 5mm toe below heel.
If you are interested in moe on this look at http://custom-bootfitting.southernski.com/balance-in-skiing-is-critical.html and www.solutions4feet.com
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 way over my head but that balancing in skiing diagram B seems to be me - no matter how I stand my thighs burn, but I have just had new boots fitted whilst in L2A, so surely the boot fitter would have noticed if they were not for me? easiski recommended him, so I trust her judgement on his abilities.
I'm effectively a beginner and wanted a comfortable boot (as the hire ones kill my feet and shins), so he recommended a pair of head vector 110's I've got no idea what that means by the way, but they seem pretty flexible for me (I'm 6'1" and weigh about 100kg) so I can't see how my boots would be holding me too upright, and I hire my skis, so aren't most binding flat?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Sack the Juggler wrote: |
| I'm 6'1" and weigh about 100kg |
That's quite heavy. Losing a little weight would save some strain. But the main thing is posture.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| Sack the Juggler wrote: |
| I'm 6'1" and weigh about 100kg |
That's quite heavy. Losing a little weight would save some strain. But the main thing is posture. |
its all muscle.... apart from the fat bits
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sack the Juggler, I know people on here love their hypertechnical obsession-fests, but I'd suggest that losing a bit of weight and doing more exercise is probably the most helpful course of action. If your legs are a) stronger in the first place and b) doing less work, they won't get tired so quickly will they? Sorry, I realise that's really boring. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sack the Juggler, me too! 
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| Sack the Juggler wrote: |
| and I hire my skis, so aren't most binding flat? |
No.
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You know it makes sense.
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I think it's time to revisit the technique chat.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Sack the Juggler, I think snowploughing, having your weight too far back and pushing yourself to carry on and keep up with seasoned skiers even when you were already worn out all probably contributed to your beginners' burn last week.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Sack the Juggler, Just keep having lessons and it will solve itself. You sound a bit like I was, EAGER! Making up with brute force what you lack in technique. Just keep refining your skiing and it will come. This year was the first year I could ski from top of the mountain to bottom at full tilt without having to stop. That was fun. Behind an ESF instructor of course so I was allowed to ski like a hooligan
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sack the Juggler, Getting the right boots is a big thing. Without your own skis my fore aft alignment suggestion is not really an option. As you are a relative beginner just keep working on technique and fitness. Your obviously eager enough to invest time and money and to read and think about how to improve your skiing. It will come together for you and as it does the pain will ease.
Most of all have fun.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I spent all summer doing literally nothing, or sat behind a desk - I didn't have any specific muscle group burn or ache skiing the first 7 days straight of opening this season. Skiing well means skiing efficiently... which isn't that tiring
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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70% technique
20-30% fitness
0-10% equipment
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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70% technique
20-30% fitness
0-10% equipment
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I would contend that snow comes into it somewhere. I got sore thighs yesterday, for the first time this season. Same technique, fitness and equipment, but sticky, sticky, snow. Constantly getting thrown forward, adjusting balance, being too far back, trying to get forward, hitting another sticky patch, etc. Or maybe I just lack the right technique for that sort of snow? The occasional patches of really wet slushy stuff were bliss in comparison.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Do some squats.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Or maybe I just lack the right technique for that sort of snow? |
I find it mostly the same as deep powder:
never twist the skis /across/ your direction of travel,
never *push* the skis downhill with muscle action
choose lines that have a strong and consistent downhill component,
anticipate obvious traps (smooth snow=trap!) by squeezing the feet forward from the core.
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Even with good technique if you have too much forward lean in your boots &/or too much delta angle in your bindings then you'll end up sticking your backside out to stay in balance meaning that your thigh muscles will take the load & not your skeleton.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 30-03-10 21:42; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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comprex, I did find it very difficult to "spot" the glue areas, in the midst of ordinary sort of clag. The most difficult places I encountered would normally be a straight schuss. They are places where I schuss regularly, with no problem, in all kinds of snow. Some days the snow is faster than other days obviously. But yesterday!! The most disconcerting was that with two parallel skis, straight downhill, one would hit a "glue patch" when the other didn't. A recipe for a bit of a disaster - sudden deceleration of the right ski, followed a few yards later by sudden deceleration of the left ski. I found that this was exceptionally tiring on the legs - constantly unbalanced and having to recover balance. Either I had to cope with sudden slow down of just one of my skis, and the risk of a big fall, or give up trying to schuss and just skate - which was remarkably like skating through treacle. Just no fun at all. Thankfully it was all much easier today.
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I've used to get "snowplough ache" in my legs but I don't much get it now as I can do a relaxed "gliding" plough leaning into my boots if I need to go down a narrow path. However I got aching muscles down the outside of my lower thighs for the first time last week as I was learning new skills. I think it happens from trying too hard and over-tensing muscles when learning, particularly when tackling conditions/drills that venture too far outside my comfort zone.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| A recipe for a bit of a disaster - sudden deceleration of the right ski, followed a few yards later by sudden deceleration of the left ski. I found that this was exceptionally tiring on the legs - constantly unbalanced and having to recover balance. Either I had to cope with sudden slow down of just one of my skis, and the risk of a big fall, or give up trying to schuss and just skate - which was remarkably like skating through treacle. Just no fun at all. |
Been on that glacier, done that. Can cause injury, like in upper quads.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Even with good technique if you have too much forward lean in your boots &/or too much delta angle in your bindings then you'll end up sticking your backside out to stay in balance meaning that your thigh muscles will take the load & not your skeleton. |
Did I ever tell you about my 18mm toe lift rig? ( For a 306 boot?)  <-don't do this at home!
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FAQ
For what it is worth, i think that excessive thigh burn (you are going to get some no matter what) is likely to arise for a least two reasons that typically affect less experienced skiers: (a) skiing in the back seat (see billion posts above). Problem here is partly that you will not be letting your weight rest on the forward cuffs of your boots (where you should be 'stacked' over the balls of your feet - for the most part). (b) not riding your edges and letting them do the work. All of your control will be coming from the thighs pressing the uphill ski down to initiate turns (and the more downhill pressure/speed you have the harder you will have to press down). Ok as you learn to progress from the snow plough to parallel turns, but eventually you have to master being able to shift the weight/hips across the fall line to tilt the skis onto their downhill edges - then ride the edges, that is, balance on them. The parabolic ski shape will turn itself. Once you can do this, your thighs will not be your only way of turn direction, and they will thank you for it by not screaming in agony 