 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
parlor & snowbandit, harsh but fair and I agree. We live in, and reap the rewards from, a capitalist society. You pays your money and you takes your choice, as one wise man probably said.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| rayscoops wrote: |
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| myself and my ski buddies really are dedicated TO people |
well there is the problem - using TO - not single room availability as such  |
I find a reasonable supply of them (mainly in Austria), although much fewer than the twin/double rooms.
Mainly travelling with TUI group, although I have also used Neilson.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Like I said before, the cost isn't really the issue, it's just the lack of availability and choice. Paying a reasonable supplement is fine by me, I realise hoteliers have to make a living.
I'm not a rarity at all, quite a few people have agreed with me on this thread. I'm a woman of a certain age and I value my own space. I live alone, I'm not used to having to put up with other people's foibles or imposing my own on them. Sharing to me represents compromise and that's not something I want from my holiday. It's one week per year after all.
Thanks to the people who have agreed with me.
And alex_heney, I often end up travelling with TUI too, they seem to offer the best selection of regional airport departures and there are a sprinkling of single rooms about. What we're struggling with is finding at least two in the same hotel, but the search continues.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
queen bodecia, ideally I'd have a single as I never fully relax when sharing and I am a bad sleeper anyway, but I do it to save a few bob. I hope this next week will be a bit different as it's my sister I am sharing with and as she's profoundly Deaf I won't have to worry about making any noise if I am awake in the night.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| I'm not a rarity at all, quite a few people have agreed with me on this thread. I'm a woman of a certain age and I value my own space. I live alone, I'm not used to having to put up with other people's foibles or imposing my own on them. Sharing to me represents compromise and that's not something I want from my holiday. It's one week per year after all. |
While not sharing may not be a rare quality, I'm a bit annoyed at your tone implying those willing to share as young (and perhaps without standard?). If the age quoted earlier in the thread was correct, I'm no younger than you. And I found no disgrace at sharing! Nor do at least one other in this thread.
| Quote: |
| I wish accommodation providers would wake up and do something about this. It must be an increasing trend, it seems to get more and more difficult each year. |
As pointed out by others repeatedly, it's not so much the hotelier but the TO that make single room such a "extra limited availability". For plenty of us solo travellers found no ("increasing" or otherwise) shortage of single rooms outside of the TO's offerings.
If you're too lazy to DIY, the least you could do is gracefully accept the limitation of such "convenience" from the TO, without lashing out wrongly at the "accommodation providers".
| Quote: |
| Thanks to the people who have agreed with me. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
abc, I'm not saying sharing is 'disgraceful', it's just not for me. I did it when I was younger, sharing a tiny apartment with five other students on Uni trips, but after school dormitories it didn't feel such a hardship. Now I'm in my forties, I can afford my own house, and I have some pretty anti-social sleep patterns, sharing is simply not suitable. I shared a hotel room with my sister in Birmingham for a couple of days last year and we were both about ready to kill each other afterwards. Me her for being messy and leaving stuff everywhere, and her me for having the light on and reading all night.
I'm not too lazy to DIY. There are plenty of reasons why DIY wouldn't work for me but I do accept there is a greater selection of accommodation if you take that route. The whole DIY thing falls down on transfers for me. The convenience of having door to door coach transfers, not to mention the inclusive cost, is a pretty important factor, not to mention the security of having reps on hand to sort problems.
Here's an example, on my recent trip to La Thuile, there were two lovely Scottish ladies in my hotel. On the way out the Glasgow flight was delayed by 13 hours for reasons outside of the TO's control. Normally they share transfer buses for the Glasgow and Newcastle flights as they both land within 20 mins of each other. So the Newcastle flight customers went off on their half-filled transfer buses at the correct time. The Glasgow flight eventually landed at 1.30am and the reps had arranged more transfer buses at this time to go to the 8 resorts and had phoned ahead all accommodation to let them know of anticipated 3-4am arrivals. Correct me if I'm wrong but a DIYer would have been forced to spend the rest of the night in the airport and re-arrange transport for the next day? Using expensive mobile phone roaming charges in the process no doubt. Anyway, unfortunately one of the ladies had an accident and ruptured her cruciate ligament during the holiday. The reps sorted everything for her, from getting her back and forth to the hospital, arranging extra seats on her return flight and airport assistance to getting refunds on the unused days of her lift pass and equipment hire. Not saying a DIYer couldn't do this themselves, but life is so much easier when you have someone on hand to help and are not left to your own devices.
Anyway, I'm rambling. The point to my thread was the lack of choice and availability for single people who do not wish to share. I know there are plenty of us out there, why else would the few single rooms get booked up so quickly? It would be nice if TOs and accommodation providers recognised this and took steps to offer more that's all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think there is a demand for single rooms. As an example on a recent Inspired to Ski week, there were 5 of us 'ladies', all of whom knew each other pretty well from the previous year and some from the previous year, and got on well. None of us wished to share and those who booked early were able to get a single room at no supplement. Others did pay quite a large supplement for the privilege of having a single. As I said, I did it all the time when I travelled extensively when younger but if I can afford to have a single now I will.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
We have 5 double rooms (some with extra beds)
I must ensure I get the maximum rate for my rooms or otherwise I will be out of business and not be able to feed my kids (not that they always deserve it! )
paulio's
| Quote: |
| The room has a value, and that value is "going rate per person * room capacity". |
Is exactly right...
A double room for us is worth about €60 per night (€30pp)
Why should I sell that room for €30 per night for an single reservation? The amount of work assosiated with the room is the same. The same amount of cleaning (but not quite as much linen and brekkie).... oh and maybe a small saving on toilet roll (as long as Frosty the Snowman hasn't stayed here).
We put a €10 supplement per night on a single room but I still think this is not enough. There is every chance that as soon as I have taken the reservation for a single a double comes knocking on my door... then it is €20 per night lost.
TO's have the same excuse. The bottom line is cash. A company needs to maximise its cash. Yes, the TO has block-booked the hotel/chalet. The TO has already payed a fantasticaly low rate for the accommodation... but again they have a cost of the room... why should they halve the value of the room for a single person?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
flangesax, I understand that and I'm prepared to pay a supplement. After all my 3-bedroomed house doesn't cost half as much just because I live there alone. But cathy is absolutely right, there is a demand. For example last week in La Thuile, the hotel I stayed at was having a 'no solo supplement' week, partly why we booked that particular hotel. For that reason it was fully booked way back in June of last year. Myself and my ski buddies accounted for 5 of the 12 rooms (3 couples, 2 singles) and of the other 7 rooms, 6 were booked by singles. We asked the hotelier about this and he said it's a quiet week and a good way to ensure more bookings, he'd have probably only been half full otherwise. OK it's a small example but it proves my point.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
So an anti-social, moaning vegetarian singleton.....hmmm, I'm going to set up my own business to cater for people just like you, seeing as there is such demand. I bet it will be a right laugh a minute 
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
queen bodecia, if there is spare capacity most businesses will accept singles for a lower price rather than havig an empty room, but you have said that you pre book your holidays well in advance with a TO and at a specific resort and that is the main reason you are finding difficulty. I sometimes watch the snow reports and head to where it is snowing, sometimes booking a flight for travel the next day and I have never been charged a single supplement in those circumstances.
If you were more flexible yourself maybe you would benefit from the flexibility of the hotesl/B&Bs, otherwise in most cases you simply have to pay for a double room.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
rayscoops, I agree. In the past when it has just been me, I've booked the week off work then waited until a couple of weeks before and rung around all the TOs to see what they can offer me. But now I want the privilege of the company of my ski buddies, it needs careful advance planning. I think we are all just a bit deflated with the lack of choice available given all our requirements.
The Voice of Reason, I'm definitely not anti-social nor moaning (I hold my hands up to your other two descriptions!). This isn't a moan thread. I realise TOs/hoteliers have to cater to the masses. My point was borne out of the week I spent in La Thuile last week where clearly I wasn't the only one to take advantage of a 'no solo supplement' week. I think during quiet weeks when a hotel might otherwise be only half full, it would be a nice idea if more TOs/accommodation offered this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Slightly off topic but still to do with supplements. Hubby and I usually go to Finland where we stay in a log cabin. Cabin has double sofa bed downstairs and a mezzanine with three single mattresses in. As we have the cabin to ourselves we pay about £500 in underoccupancy. From time to time this TO offers these cabins with free child places which includes accomodation and flights. Theoretically could I book for Hubby and me, invent 3 children, turn up at airport and say the kids are ill or something, and not coming with us. So we have the cabin supplement free.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| I wasn't the only one to take advantage of a 'no solo supplement' week. I think during quiet weeks when a hotel might otherwise be only half full, it would be a nice idea if more TOs/accommodation offered this. |
Reality being, hoteliers do offer that much more often than TOs would take advantage of!
During all my years of travelling and skiing, I've not only managed successfully to get single room at single's rate. I've also seen some hotels offer single rate on double rooms. Not just one week out of a year but most of the time except peak season! Not half price, mind you. But not the full double room rate.
TO, on the other hand, have more incentive to squeeze 2 people into one room. The single supplement is partly design to "encourage" single peeps to round up their own roommate, thus ensuring they get double the profit margin.
So even if I build a hotel of ALL single room, if TO's don't take advantage of it, "TO dedicated people" like you would continue to moan about the lack of availability of single's room!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
abc, a generalisation I admit, but I would stand by my description of someone who is not prepared to mix it up and share with a known friend, even to the extent of missing out entirely if single accomodation cannot be sourced, possibly to the detriment of the entire group,as anti-social. Only because my vocabulary does not extend to finding another, possibly more appropriate, word. Maybe selfish?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
The Voice of Reason, SelfLESS in my case. I wouldn't inflict my snoring or farting on anyone (not bound to me by marriage)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Nadenoodlee, I won't ask about farting. It's covered on the other thread
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| queen bodecia wrote: |
| I wasn't the only one to take advantage of a 'no solo supplement' week. I think during quiet weeks when a hotel might otherwise be only half full, it would be a nice idea if more TOs/accommodation offered this. |
On a web forum chat page (like this) the people contributing will tend to be those who feel strongly about something. In this case it’s single room occupancy in ski hotels,. This will, of course skew the chat towards a certain generalised viewpoint. There is, in reality, only a (relatively) tiny market for people who are not prepared to share with someone else. If there was a mass market for single rooms then they would be more widely available.
We lay on single rooms with no supplement for some dates and the take up (by singles) is very small. In fact almost all the rooms we put out as being available to singles, with no supplement, end up with 2 people in them. Why is this ?. Simple answer is there are many, many more people wanting to share than not.
I am not saying for one moment that single occupancy rooms aren’t important to the people wanting them. But you have to remember that to hotels and TO’s (and anyone else who has make extremely relatively large payments – up-front) there just isn’t enough call for single room to justify the outlay. Remember that we have to sometimes wait a couple of years to get any form of return on money we pay out in deposits.
If there was a sizable percentage of people wanting single rooms ( not just on a chat page) then they would be more widely available, but, as hardly anyone wants them, we don’t lay them on as a general rule. If the demographic of the average ski TO client changes then we and everyone else will look at it again, but until then ….
Am fully prepared to now be shot down in flames 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Selfish because I don't want to inflict my personal habits on a woman I barely know? Axsman has it right, it's selfless rather than selfish. I'd consider it selfish to expect someone to put up with me at close proximity just so that I could wangle a cheaper holiday.
Fact is, I don't know anyone well enough who is also a single female skier that I would consider it acceptable on both sides for us to share a room. It's more than just having to share a bathroom and dressing facilities, often twin beds are very close together so it's pretty much the same as sharing a bed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I went with Mark Warner to Tignes this year, they have this and a few other hotels that have single rooms at no supplement. The whole MW experience was great and well worth the little extra more than the TUI shambles.
I agree, I myself am now of that certain age and prefer a room to myself (if not travelling with family) however I would normally expect to pay for it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
So I've read the thread and am confused as the exact problem here. For example This "certain age" crap that is spouted: what's that all about?
I'm reasonably wealthy, I'm male, I'm 50 this year. But I can cope with sharing with a ski buddy - did so for a week in Jan. So what is it that
a) is so bad that you can't endure it for a week?, BUT
b) is not so bad as you don't like paying an extra few quid to avoid it?
Jeez laedies, get over yourselves. As Paulio, Snowpatrol or Rumdiary would put it, "put up or shut up". Wayne has it spot on: the market says no call, so the market doesn't provide it. You want it, plus all the other things you deem as critical from a TO, you pay.
IF the market proves the TOs wrong, they will go to the wall, the suppliers of specialist (cheap) singles services will win through and all will be well. But until that happens, you should accept you are in a minority, and as in most things in life, minorities get the rough end of the stick.
ON THE OTHER HAND...
Why not get a hubby and two kids? THEN you will only be able to go in 1/2 term or school holidays, and if you think singles supplements are expensive, you wait until you see what they do to families...
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Kel, spot on. Although I don't think I snore (having never heard myself sleep I can't be sure of this!).
My point is I do think there is a market for it. One in five adults are single. OK so many of these who are skiers may be able and willing to share but there are some that can't or would choose not to. If this wasn't the case, the hotel I stayed in last week wouldn't have had all rooms occupied and booked well in advance. The 'no solo supplement' week offer was snapped up and was clearly a definite selling point.
As for JimW's other advice, a hubby and two kids is definitely not an option, lol!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kel, is that a wind-up? You really can't see the difference? OK, here goes;
Your employers are sending you out to work on their behalf and therefore have a duty to put you up in relative comfort to compensate for you begin away from home, and they presumably want you turning up at clients looking smart, acting sharp and for that you need comfortable private accommodation. You choosing to go skiing is all your own choice in terms of timing, destination and type and expense of accommodation.
(If anyone can make it any more clear please do)
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Thu 18-03-10 20:02; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Oddly a particular business trip was the only time I have shared with someone I wasn't [married to/shagging/hoping to shag] (delete as appropriate).
Me and a work mate had separate rooms initially but having checked out on the last day of our trip, later found we needed to check back in because the project 'ran over'. Problem: only one room available. Solution: we shared.
No big deal, but he never slept a wink because even 20 years ago I was qualified to lead the British Olympic formation snoring team. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
How on earth do people cope with partners that snore? My mum snores and it irritates me enough even when she is sleeping in the next room, I usually keep my iPod on all night. There's no way I'd be able to share a room with that racket!
I'm a bit of an insomniac and tend to read, watch TV and/or listen to music during the night, so I consider myself to have fairly anti-social night-time habits, but I think snoring is worse than any of that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| queen bodecia wrote: |
My point is I do think there is a market for it. One in five adults are single. OK so many of these who are skiers may be able and willing to share but there are some that can't or would choose not to. If this wasn't the case, the hotel I stayed in last week wouldn't have had all rooms occupied and booked well in advance. The 'no solo supplement' week offer was snapped up and was clearly a definite selling point.
|
But you're missing the point that there are already sufficient SUPPLY of single accomondation for the demand of single travellers!
Those rooms, however, are not being booked by TOs.
I suspect TOs would prefer to cater to less demanding customers -- those who are not fussy about sharing! And they demand higher premium from those who are picky --> extra supplement above the true cost of single room rate!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
I did once share with a (male) colleague at a conference where we had taken all available hotel beds in the city. However when we turned up in our room to find a double bed we did change our minds pretty quickly 
I've shared with a couple of previously unknown snowheads and also with other friends on skiing trips and haven't a problem with it. On the one occasion I went away as a single with a TO to Zermatt I did have trouble finding a single room and it was probably the smallest room I've ever stayed in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| queen bodecia wrote: |
My point is I do think there is a market for it. One in five adults are single. OK so many of these who are skiers may be able and willing to share but there are some that can't or would choose not to. If this wasn't the case, the hotel I stayed in last week wouldn't have had all rooms occupied and booked well in advance. The 'no solo supplement' week offer was snapped up and was clearly a definite selling point.
|
I can't see how selling single rooms to single people on singles week shows there's a demand.
Once a year, every year, Pontins in Prestatyn has a Freddy and The Dreamers weekend and it is (I'm told) very popular with Freddy and The Dreamers devotees. You can't go on from there to say that every British seaside resort should cater at all times for fans of comic 60's beat combos.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Higs, I'm telling you now.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
From time to time this TO offers these cabins with free child places which includes accomodation and flights. Theoretically could I book for Hubby and me, invent 3 children, turn up at airport and say the kids are ill or something, and not coming with us. So we have the cabin supplement free. But in the unlikely event you could do what you suggest then yes, very good idea.
|
anyone who has ever tried to get these fantastic "free child places" offers will know that they are like hen's teeth and basically don't exist, specially not for 3 kids. Just looks good on the brochures. They're never as free as they seem.
I like the simplicity of going to a hotel and being told how much the room costs, whether there is 1, 2 or 3 people in there. That's typically the case in France (at least in the sort of places I stay). You then pay separately for whatever you eat (if anything). The hotelier does have a tad more work to do, if there are two beds used and needing changing but a single traveller who feels hard done by as a result can spend half the night in each bed. But a room is worth $X. Simple. It seems utterly obvious to me. if you hire a car, you don't pay more if you put 2 or 3 people in it. Just like you rent an apartment, and it's up to you how many people you put in it. all these "single supplements" and "under occupancy supplements" are just a result of the opaque pricing of TOs. They provide some convenience, but also a great many annoying things, and you can't have one without the other.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Higs, they weren't single rooms. The hotel was doing an offer on certain off-peak weeks for single people to book a room with no supplement. In fairness, as I have said before, I don't have a problem with paying a supplement for a twin room for sole occupancy, I realise hoteliers have to make money. However, I'm less keen on single room supplements, i.e. where a room has only one bed and very little space, yet costs considerably more than half the price of a double room.
abc has made a fair point. Maybe there are many more single rooms or low supplements out there and TOs are simply not offering them. I've also seen sole occupancy supplements that equal the cost for two people, which to me is totally unfair. The maximum charge should be the cost for two people, minus the amount that represents the flights/transfers and minus the amount the represents one person's meals. That way the hotelier would not be out of pocket for letting the room to one person rather than two.
In fairness Crystal do try to help. They do advertise 'single savers' throughout their brochure/website and are prepared to negotiate with hoteliers as they did for me last season. But I still find the choice quite limited. Someone else made the point earlier that finding a good choice of family rooms is rare too. I honestly think that TOs (not just winter sports) should realise that not everyone holidays as a cosy couple. There are lots of other permutations and combinations out there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
)
)
