 Poster: A snowHead
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Seems to be a different story depending who you speak to! The rep on the phone said check with airline operating then asked for my booking ref and checked something on her computer before saying the bit about checking in with Swiss so it was Swiss T&Cs all the way home.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm not convinced by this "operated by" different T's & C's thing. I booked through the Swiss website, and checked the free carriage before I did. No mention during the booking process that it was operated by BMI, details on the tickets was the first indication. If they then charge you for ski carriage isn't that a trade description issue? Even if not a legal requirement I would think it's very much in Swiss Air's interest to honor their own promise, if it came out they weren't it would hit their significant winter trade.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Dr John, well Swiss seem to lack the resources to answer a very simple question and I can well understand why the OP and others are cross.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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right .... I have sent another slightly pushier email to SWISS, so I shall keep you a.. updated.
It will probably all be fine, but it would be nice to get a straight answer from them!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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pam w, I completely understand the frustration and would react in a similar way if it happened to me. But to claim that the full service airlines are as much hassle as the budgets on the strength of this thread, when balanced against the litany of complaints about every single aspect of the budget airlines offering over the past few years, is a little divisive to say the least. I'm sure that a review of the complaints to passengers ratio will confirm my assumption.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I wouldn't agree that there's been a litany of complaints about every aspect of all the budget airlines offering - there have been complaints about some aspects, but there have also been compliments, and the most significant subject for complaints in recent times seems to have been the BA strike. And the gradual eating away of the "full service" offered by the "full service" airlines, particularly free ski carriage. And I think most people would agree that easyJet (don't know about the others) offers far better online service for changing flights than do BA on their "cheap" fares which - last time I tried to change one - were horribly inflexible.
I would agree with you that if Swiss fail to mention before you book that a flight is offered by another airline and that hefty ski carriage charges will be levied, that would be a "trades description" issue. The fact that people are not even getting consistent answers to their questions is also indicative of poor/confused service.
Overall, people are voting with their wallets - making a judgement on value for money - and unless the "full service" product is clearly distinguished then I'm sure you are right to suggest it will hit their trade. I suspect in five years time, on short haul at any rate, the distinction between "budget" and "full cost" - already tenuous - will have disappeared altogether.
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pam w, all fair points. Hopefully the efficient Swiss will remain strike free and solvent but it's by no means a certainty, something that applies to all airlines, just happens to be BA getting a slapping at the moment. Completely agree with the withdrawing of offerings, and I fear free ski carriage is not long for this world. We all look for value for money, trouble is people have different criteria for what constitutes value, hence the existence of budget self-catering accommodation and Scott Dunn, for example. Each to their own and very good luck to those who DIY (I've done both may times and have splinters from sitting on the fence), but I fail to see why one method of travel is more worthy than another. Enjoy the snow and let's have a beer, I'm just not that bothered how you got there.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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not aimed at you pam w, seems we're more or less on the same page.
Dangerous game, commenting on the class, or otherwise, of users of one type of operator or another. There are as many low-class idiots in the cocktail bar of the Farinet in Verbier as there are in a the Elvis themed restaurant in Soldeu (I should know, I've been a low-class idiot in both). Money doesn't buy class, it just gives you the opportunity to be an idiot in more expensive places.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Right ... finally had an email back from SWISS, which looks more like it.
I shall make sure I have a print-off of this email in my pocket at the airport!
Thank you for your response.
The flight LX358 the 6th April is truly operated by BMI, but as it is a wetlease, we are glad to confirm you that the Swiss conditions applies. You can truly bring one set of winter sports equipment free of charge.
One set of winter sports equipment is free of charge for all customers except for small children under the age of 2 years. The weight restriction per equipment is 23 kg, exceeding weight is charged with the excess baggage fee.
We hope this information is helpful and look forward to your next query.
Sincerely yours
Maryline Haenn
SWISS E-Mail Service Center-Team Basel
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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And just seen an update on Lufthansa website so good news for Lufthansa travellers!!!
Economy Class: 20 kg (44lb) - plus 1 ski bag
on flights operated by Lufthansa and Swiss International Airlines
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You know it makes sense.
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elgrego, oh no! No more Frigor? I want my money back!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| elgrego, oh no! No more Frigor? I want my money back! |
Still a very civilised flying experience though 
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Poster: A snowHead
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elgrego, yeah I know, only kidding!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, Great post. Sums it up nicely.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I had no luck with Swiss customer service so I contacted the CEO and MD. It got respnses but I don't feel like they really care about their customers. If you want to get a response to your complaint go to the top. email: harry.hohmeister@swiss.com or reto.schmid@swiss.com
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Useful thread.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I never had a problem with Swiss Air & I always found there customer service to be excellent... I use them nearly every week for many years.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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But thats probably because you never had a problem. During the Icelandic volcanic ash problem my Swiss Air flights were cancelled - I was promised by a Swiss Rep that my reasonable accommodation, food and transport expenses would be refunded on my arrival back in the UK. When I returned and sent off my receipts I was told that due to the scale of the problem they would not honour their promise. I just feel a company of their size should stand by their word.
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dont_use_swiss lucky you found this old thread then 
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Out of interest, dont_use_swiss's costs would've been covered if he'd have used an EU based carrier (assuming they're reasonable) Swiss's status as a non-eu carrier means that he's only entitled to a refund of the flight or a rebooking. However non-eu carriers are obliged to operate by EU regulation if they are LEAVING an EU country, so a cancelled flight on Swiss from Geneva to London isn't covered but London to Geneva would be.
Link to EU regs. (caution PDF)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks Richard, its good to hear someones point of view on this. I was under the impression that the Regulation also applied to any Swiss Airline but I am not legally trained, it just what I read on the link below...
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/bargains-and-rip-offs/travel/article.html?in_article_id=503227&in_page_id=1093
The extract in particular is...
Under EU rules, airlines must compensate passengers up to €600 if their flight is cancelled or heavily delayed, unless the situation has been caused by 'extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.'
The ruling that outlines these rights is Regulation (EC) 261/2004 and it applies to all flights wholly within the EU/EEA or Swiss region, or departing an EU/EEA or Swiss airport, or arriving in the region and run by an EU/EEA or Swiss airline.
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dont_use_swiss, did you have insurance ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yes, apparently after the events of the tsunami they do not offer compensation for "disaster" unless it has directly affected the hotel you are staying in - I imagine different policies have varying Ts & Cs though.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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dont_use_swiss, If the Swiss region is covered by EU regulations, your expenses were reasonable and you've got the receipts, and you had an enforced stay due to a cancelled flight, the you should have a pretty bulletproof case. If they are refusing to pay reasonable expenses then they're in breach of Article 9
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Thanks Richard. The CEO is not budging, but I will keep this thread updated with progress.
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You know it makes sense.
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Richard_Sideways, I like your sig 
dont_use_swiss, what a nightmare
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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dont_use_swiss, Have you actually contacted your insurer? Despite it being in their T&C that it wouldn't cover such events - many insurance companies did pay out anyway.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Yes, they made a minimal non gratia payment which covered one night's accommodation. Unfortunately I was delayed by 6 days. I was actually stranded in Russia so when they wouldn't renew my visa a second time I had to leave the country. Thats the tricky part - I made by own way through Finland and Sweden and so I wasn't then in the original country where I was supposed to leave from. It was a real mess in the end but I still believe Swiss had a duty of care atleast while I was in Russia
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You may get a better idea as to how you stand with your situation if you contact the Air Transport Users Council . They have a Volcano Information pack which may be helpful to read through, and contact numbers. (http://www.auc.org.uk/docs/306/AUC%20Volcano%20pack.pdf)
As i mentioned earlier it's dependant on the status of Swiss Air as an EU carrier, also other factors, like whether you bought a return flight or a single.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 14-07-10 13:54; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This is probably going to be an unpopular post but when you read
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| unless the situation has been caused by 'extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.' |
Should that in itself not exclude the volcanic ash effect. It is my belief that the EU airlines were told regardless of this statement that volcanic ash did apply, were Swiss airlines told the same?
In my view the airlines should not have been help liable for volcanic ash, in particular when you consider many governments backed keeping air space closed for (arguably) longer than necessary.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think there are two issues in my case.
Firstly, I was informed by a Swiss representative that my reasonable expenses would be reimbursed on my return. I believe a reputable company would honour their promise.
Secondly, The regulation (EC) 261/2004. Richard's link above for the volcano information pack is most useful. It clearly states that the compensation includes Swiss airlines and outlines what should have been compensated for.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stevew, i think you are right, and even the next paragraph adds to it with respect to air traffic management decisions - basically the sky was closed !
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| Extraordinary circumstances should be deemed to exist where the impact of an air traffic management decision in relation to a particular aircraft on a particular day gives rise to a long delay, an overnight delay, or the cancellation of one or more flights by that aircraft, even though all reasonable measures had been taken by the air carrier concerned to avoid the delays or cancellations. |
dont_use_swiss, I think Swiss were perhaps wrong to offer what they did, and obviously as the extent of the delay expanded then they changed their mind, but I do not think they have done anything wrong. Also if insurance companies consider that the event is not covered (that is what insurance is for) then why would an airline be any different ? Also the fact that you did not wait for a flight home (not your fault) I think means that you have lost any entitlement to being
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| 'adequately cared for while awaiting a later flight' |
The bottom line is that whilst they promised something, they could not deliver it and then changed their minds; there does not seem to be any default or fault (or it seems liablility based upon the above quote(s)) on the part of Swiss 
What you now expect and what you may be actually entitled to seems to differ - in some ways the Iceland volcano was a bit like opening pandora's box 
edit - actually the quotes above only relate to Article 7 (money) and not Article 9 (hotels and food etc), so I am wrong on that part.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 14-07-10 15:54; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Having had a read of the volcano PDF, I'd say you would have a fair chance of reclaiming the cost of your flight (or the cancelled/delayed return leg anyway) and reasonable costs incured while you were waiting for the flight, up until the time you made alternative arrangements to travel home. Costs incured in other forms of transport taken to get home are not covered.
If the only thing they've offered is an ex-gratia payment rather than covering the costs incured, i reckon you've got a half-decent case. Give the AUC a call on 020 7240 6061 and have a chat (they'll probably have even better advise than a pack of commentards on SH!)
Good Luck, and welcome to SnowHeads - let us know how it turns out.
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In a similar situation to the above posters, flying out to Geneva for a spot of boarding in early Jan 2011. Just spoke to Jasmine @ SwissAir US and she confirmed that although the flight says "Operated by BMI", Swiss International's rules apply, and there is no charge for the additional carriage of one ski/snowboard kit as defined on their site (see abj's link above).
Sweet! 
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Shallimus, I flew with them to Geneva in mid Dec and same applied, the one leg of the flight was operated by BMI. No problems with the skis at all, although I did ring them (Swiss) a few days beforehand and told them I'd have skis with me (obviously when you book a flight online they don't know at that point whether you have skis or not, only a hold bag). Anyway it was fine, first time flying for me with them and I thought it was the best flight and service I'd ever had so far.
At Geneva on the way back, the luggage drop off was great, I didn't have to wait for the check in machine to update with my flight details unlike some people with earlier flights than me with other airlines (got to airport much earlier than actually flight time was) so it was fab to be able to ditch the skis and luggage as soon as I got in there while others had to wait.
Someone I know flew with them as well last month and because Heathrow was closed for those few days just before Christmas, they couldn't get back to Heathrow obviously. Swiss paid for a hotel (Crowne Plaza I believe) without even needing prompting for the 2 nights they were stuck at Geneva with breakfast and dinner. Very good service it was, so it seems that they did things differently in that case than during the volcanic ash problem without the customer having to fork out for the accommodation and having to claim it back later and all that by the sounds of it.
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