 Poster: A snowHead
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| dulcamara wrote: |
does anyone have any tips to simply overcoming fear? how do you deal with it? As an example I have started doing small drops etc. Not much technique to it, and everytime I do it, it tends to be easier than I thought it would be (couple of exceptions, but touch wood no damage). So far I have used the 1, 2, 3 GO method but as drops get bigger its slowly failing.
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I'm still a bit of a coward with big air too. A technique I sometimes use, which is an improved version of 1, 2, 3, Go: Pick your landing and decide exactly what you intend to do - then look away, take a breath and count 1, 2, 3 - then look back and go at once.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 18-11-09 10:31; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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beanie1, please take this in the right way, not having a go but as someone who has seen you ski i think sometimes you are overly concerned with mistakes and outcome (passing, falling, not doing it correctly, etc) instead of just skiing in the moment, you rarely let it rip....
remember my little crash during our coaching session? you seized up after seeing me go down and i think it was less worry about injury but more concern over not excelling/passing/doing well/etc...
Have a read of the inner game of tennis (i dont think the skiing version isnt as good) perhaps it is more mindset than fear?
I just took delivery today of some 191 GS skis and fear is definately on my mind for when they finally get strapped on... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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skimottaret, I used to suffer from that... instructor made me figure eight him in off-piste conditions that were truly horrid...(heavy sticky sticky sticky snow - the patrol were doing a huge trade even on piste - snow on red dust on snow is bad)... by the time we laid figure 8's all over the bowl we were working on I'd been lectured about my "perceived stumbles" and made to examine the tracks from the chair - stumbles hard to see! Then we rode the chair with a guy who on seeing where we were headed exclaimed "So it is YOU making those beautiful figure 8's" Instructor just grinned at me and said "see others do not see the same things you think you feel" Stuff like that goes a long way to starting to cure that... Earlier again in my skiing my solution was to stop every time I felt I had "done it wrong" I spent about a year being told "Just don't stop" It does eventually sink in... this last season I skied one morning on solid ice balls etc - (big refreeze after a really warm Colorado spring day). Everyone was complaining about the lack of grip. Fastman and I carved long turns down the hill and I did not even whimper - I'm just more accepting of the less than locked in feeling now!
I'm sure beanie will get over that - just a bit of help from others helps a lot though.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
I just took delivery today of some 191 GS skis and fear is definately on my mind for when they finally get strapped on... |
Congrats, you're going to have fun on them!
Here's a hint for your first couple runs. Realize that it will take a number of turns for your body to adapt to the larger radius turn that comes of any particular edge angle. When going for arc to arc you may well find your body moving in the direction of the new turn, but your skis lagging behind, tracking off away from you. Whamo, you fall on the inside ski.
Solution: be patient. On gentle slopes, tip the skis on edge with knee angulation, wait for the skis to start turning and the forces begin to grow, then gradually lengthen your outside leg and drop your hips into the turn. Once you get up to speed and get the new balance formula figured out you can drop the knee angulation thing, and before you know it you'll be having a ball ripping long radius arc to arc turns, feeling solid as a rock.
I introduced race stock GS skis to little tiger a couple years ago. At first she was scared. Now it's her ride of choice for everyday groomer skiing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| FastMan wrote: |
I introduced race stock GS skis to little tiger a couple years ago. At first she was scared. Now it's her ride of choice for everyday groomer skiing. |
Only the Racetigers still though... not up to Elans for everyday yet... 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| little tiger wrote: |
| FastMan wrote: |
I introduced race stock GS skis to little tiger a couple years ago. At first she was scared. Now it's her ride of choice for everyday groomer skiing. |
Only the Racetigers still though |
Only because you won't let go of them! 
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FastMan, when I wear both pairs out I'll stop skiing them 
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skimottaret, throwaway line for the day for ya:
"One can't reason people out of positions which they did not reason themselves into"
does this apply to the fear conversation?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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skimottaret,
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i think sometimes you are overly concerned with mistakes and outcome (passing, falling, not doing it correctly, etc) instead of just skiing in the moment, you rarely let it rip....
remember my little crash during our coaching session? you seized up after seeing me go down and i think it was less worry about injury but more concern over not excelling/passing/doing well/etc...
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Yes you're right and I know that is true, it's my personality and I'm like that in other aspects of life (and the pressure of instructor training courses just intensifies those sorts of feelings)... But just because you are aware of something doesn't mean it's that easy to change. I think trying to change something you do technically is much easier than trying to change a mindset - which is maybe the very reason why I get so fixated on "what can I do / change to make this better" (technical) and then frustrated when the only thing the trainer comes back with is "be more aggressive" (psychological) 
It is also partly to do with injury fears - I really am a girly wimp, and skiing is the only sport i do that's remotely "extreme"!
I do spend time just enjoying my skiing (not like the guy on our coach course who admitted he hadn't been on a ski holiday for years!), but the way I enjoy it these days isn't usually just bombing round the pistes*. If I'm skiing alone I'll spend most of my time skiing bumps and variables, and will generally only cruise the pistes to get somewhere. When skiing with work colleagues in Zermatt in Feb, they lost me cos they'd go straight down the most direct route with few turns, whereas I kept zipping off the side of the piste to ski the bumps or powder I'd spotted. Not good for the mobile roaming bills!! So maybe it's also lack of practice - if I spent more time just letting rip on the piste, I would build up my speed tolerance.
*It used to be - I used to love speed! As a teenager and up until about 4 or 5 years ago.
Don't get me wrong - I still ski pretty fast by comparison to most skiers, it's only really noticeable that I hold back a little when skiing with skiers who are at a very high level. No one seemed to notice on the training course I did last autumn, I was still by far the "fastest" female (and I was fast enough to come 3rd in the property industry GS  )
comprex,
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"One can't reason people out of positions which they did not reason themselves into"
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I'd actually say it's the opposite of this. Those who feel fear in their skiing have often "reasoned" themself into that state of mind - the little voice in their head that goes "but if i ski that fast and catch an edge i'm going to fall, and at that speed i'll slide for 100s of metres. What if someone cuts me up? What if there's a huge patch of ice the other side of that roller? I'll get injured and then the rest of the season will be ruined." However, if they are able to switch off that voice in their head they can do it, as in many cases they will have the technical ability to cope with these situations, without any input needed from their concious mind.
(skimottaret, Yes I have read Inner Skiing, I think it's great - not read Inner Tennis though, will look it out.)
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Sorry to hear you've been unwell little tiger & I hope you're on the mend. You said you were told:
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| .. others do not see the same things you think you feel. |
That is very true. I have been told numerous times that it's surprising I say I feel so nervous when I look very stable.
beanie1 said
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| .. just because you are aware of something doesn't mean it's that easy to change. I think trying to change something you do technically is much easier than trying to change a mindset......... the little voice in their head that goes "but if i ski that fast and catch an edge i'm going to fall, and at that speed i'll slide for 100s of metres. What if someone cuts me up? What if there's a huge patch of ice the other side of that roller? I'll get injured..... |
I am very familiar that little (sometimes pretty loud) voice. My skiing fears are mostly fear of injury and the associated consequences as I have permanent effects from a former (non-skiing) injury. Every time I go I know my non-skiing husband worries I will come back hurt as he tells me so! I find it hard to stop thinking that falls are highly likely to mean serious injury even though I know that most don't. What I want is to feel I can cope with whatever terrain/conditions I face on any blue (perhaps even a red in due course), and the ability to stop wherever and whenever I choose, quickly if necessary.
My ski progress has not been rapid, far from it but it hooked me big-time nonetheless. I was initially badgered by people telling me that if only I "went for it" with more speed the techniques would be easier to learn and that parallel skiing would be impossible to learn if I didn't go fast and get on steeper terrain. I was now worrying that lack of speed would mean progress could not happen, but it seemed a catch-22 situation as for me:
Increased speed --> decreased control --> sense of panic --> frozen muscles --> increased chance of a fall with rigid limbs.
The turning point came when I had a few summer 08 lessons with Easiski in LDA. Suddenly I was being taught by someone who said it was fine to keep the speed within the range where I felt in control while learnjng all the skills I needed to enable me to feel in control at progressively higher speeds. She demonstrated it is possible to carve whilst on a very shallow gradient at very slow speed. I went back for more of the same last March, joined by a group of others who also wanted gentle skill-based tuition in small groups. Finally the confidence started to emerge as through skill building we gently but systematically pushed at the boundaries of the comfort zone whilst nurturing the still fragile confidence. Following last year's success, we're arranging a similar "bash" this coming March.
Last Monday, as a bit of a mid-year refresher, I went to HH for a "confidence building" clinic fearing that all the work done in March would have evaporated. I needn't have worried - within the first half dozen runs rob@rar, using a similar skill establishing approach to Easiski, had me back where I left off in LDA and even making further progress - including my first ever try at pole-planting which went extremely well. While not feeling exactly "confident", I felt in control but still feared the possible actions of those around me and that some of the bumps that were developing in the snow might be lying in wait to attack me! I have to say though that the person I saw on my video feedback didn't look like how I felt - I suddenly realised I looked far more confident than I felt!
At the end of the session he gave us copies of fastman's article to take home in which the line "... maybe even just learn to ski the blue runs in a relaxed and happy way...." immediately leapt out at me! I now am able to really look forward to my trip with friends to ADH at the end of January without that nagging fear that I'd have to just teeter around nursery slopes because of having regressed dramatically. Then in March I think I will be well placed to be taken further on again. fastmanI hope there will also be future events like this summer's "camps" that I might in time be skilled enough to join!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This issue that has been dodged round here is where does the fear come from when if pushed you do actually have the technical skills soundly engaged to deal with what you are facing, it's just that you don't believe you have? (See my previous posts on this thread)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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beanie1, From a non-technical stand point...It seems to me that whenever you perform an (any) action, you need to so with due regard to, but no fear of, the possible outcomes of the action.
A really good example is rock climbing, where (IMV) a lot of the fun comes from quieting the voice that says 'If I fall ......' enough to let me get on with the climb. But it's not just danger that you can be fearful of - any negative outcome may cause similar fear or feelings. In the case of a BASI assesment, there's concern over failure, as well as everything else, for example.
Something I try to do (and it doesn't happen all the time) - is to use the following. I ski for fun (deep down, that's what we all do)... so it follows that if I'm on my skis I must be having fun. Generally when we have fun we are not overly concerned for the outcomes of our actions, so having fun on skis promotes better performance.
So in the case of your higher speed skiing - what would it be like to have fun doing that ?
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Megamum, I know what you mean. Self belief can trail behind the belief others have in your ability - for me that's because there are people whose judgement I trust far more than my own. If I try and do something I think I may not be able to do, I will do it with a huge dose of tension & fear, both of which serve to reduce my ability. If someone I trust tells me that I have the skills to do it, I may still have tension & fear, but less of both, meaning I'll be more willing to have a go, and I'll do it better too. Also I am FAR more fearful when skiing alone because if I get into a fix there is nobody to suggest how to overcome it and I have to sort myself out. That's why on one occasion it took me 10 mins to work out how to put my skis back on after wiping out on a steeper section - I now know to cross my legs.
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You know it makes sense.
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| I think trying to change something you do technically is much easier than trying to change a mindset - which is maybe the very reason why I get so fixated on "what can I do / change to make this better" (technical) and then frustrated when the only thing the trainer comes back with is "be more aggressive" (psychological) |
I know what you mean and feel the same, and it drives me to distraction....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Butterfly, this has been answered - practice, practice, practice so that your intent to do a specific skill results in the accomplishment of that skill without intervening self-doubt. Self-belief comes from mileage on snow.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| beanie1 wrote: |
| - which is maybe the very reason why I get so fixated on "what can I do / change to make this better" (technical) and then frustrated when the only thing the trainer comes back with is "be more aggressive" (psychological) :evil: |
This is one of the big advantages of online forums imo; we have all the time in the world to change wording and adapt wording to the skier.
For example, what if the trainer is actually saying
"Stop thinking about what you can do in moment X. Start thinking further ahead to moments Y and Z that might be 3,4 seconds (or hundreths) after moment X"
along with
"Plan how to carry your current speed from moment X into moment Z and achieve something with it at moment Z that you couldn't before"
But simply
a) doesn't have the time in that moment and
b) wants you to get there through self-exploration of what 'aggressive' means and
c) doesn't want to ruin your imagination and self-determination by putting them on -his- rails and
d) doesn't really feel like verbalising all that.
Is that technical enough?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 18-11-09 15:05; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| comprex wrote: |
| Self-belief comes from mileage on snow. |
and some of us need more mileage than others - it's frustrating when the hours to do it in are seriously limited!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Megamum wrote: |
| This issue that has been dodged round here is where does the fear come from when if pushed you do actually have the technical skills soundly engaged to deal with what you are facing, it's just that you don't believe you have? (See my previous posts on this thread) |
It's clear to me, at any rate, that rationally knowing you can do something and believing it deep down in your gut are two different things. I'm making good progress on the skiing side, but the contrast with sailing, which comes pretty naturally having done that from a relatively young age, is striking.
The second aspect is that fear is often quite rational and it may well be less than sensible to ignore it. For example, fear of injury because you don't want to get hurt is one thing and very natural, but fear of injury because you are self-employed and have no sick pay and would get into arrears on your mortgage and possibly lose your home makes the risk that much higher and it may be more sensible in that situation to avoid the risk (by increasing your skills or not getting into a bad situation). Risk assessment requires consideration of the potential consequences too
On something of a tangent, one major leap forward for me was the realisation that you don't have to be able to stop on a sixpence at any time; just able to change direction immediately at any time. However, despite Comprex's (albeit good) suggestions, IMV it is impossible to completely avoid the risks posed by e.g. teenagers recklessly taking air over a blind ridge behind you.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Butterfly, with respect, I don't think you need more mileage than others. You need more success at skills than others in the mileage you have.
Success at skills acts as a multiplier of mileage. There are insane numbers of skiers with huge mileage and vast self-belief and next-to-zero skills.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There are insane numbers of skiers with huge mileage and vast self-belief and next-to-zero skills.
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comprex, We do occasionally concur and here I think you are, unfortunately, correct - if only it was the other way round perhaps there would be fewer accidents on piste.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| This issue that has been dodged round here is where does the fear come from when if pushed you do actually have the technical skills soundly engaged to deal with what you are facing, it's just that you don't believe you have? (See my previous posts on this thread) |
I'd suggest testing out your skills in places where the consequences are negligible.
Look for the short, steeper sections with some run-out on Blues and use them to prepare for Reds, and similar sections on Reds to prep for Blacks. Use these places to test your technique and play with tactics (turn size / shape etc.) and if it goes wrong you have plenty of room to regain control.
A good test is check your rate of descent - is it's constant, or do you gain speed if your technique breaks down ?
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There were some nice reds in VT that had that sort of section - I enjoyed the col de l'audzin (red) - it was as blue as it gets down most of its length, but with the odd very red pitch in it. That was the one that I started to say - 'no problem - I can do that' on. I don't know where the sudden loss of fear came from, but it kicked in and I even stood at the top of first steep bit of Portette with all the snow blown off it and a sheer surface left and said the same. I agree that mileage is probably the key to gaining the confidence once you have the technique, but that is not about developing better technique, that is about getting mileage under your belt. Confidence (i.e. loss of fear) is not solely about technique, its also about mileage, one complements the other. I don't necessarily think that better technique is the key to loss of fear alone, at least for some people. In my case mileage as at least equally important.
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| It seems to me that whenever you perform an (any) action, you need to so with due regard to, but no fear of, the possible outcomes of the action. |
Second that.
I find myself in situations where fear kicks in and the only viable way I have found to turn the fear into a productive boost of adrenaline is to visualise the positive outcome. Whether dropping into a line whilst concerned about a no fall zone or trying a new trick for the first time, the only way I manage to commit fully is by playing that visualisation round and round in my head....positive re inforcement, works wonders for me. If I focus on the what ifs? or the maybe?s then I don't feel comfortable and therefore am not relaxed enough to let everything flow.
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| I can SO relate to that. Fear of collision is the one thing guaranteed to freak me out, particularly since, like you, I've been wiped out a couple of times. |
One thing that many skiers I have worked with and ridden with have in common is that they ride within their own little world. A world where the grip of the ski and the turn they are engaged in at that precise moment take precedence over everything else around them. I too can become like this when learning new skills, but this is surely when we have to find slopes which are easily manageable for us and therefore leave room for adjustments and space to focus on the present.
When riding around generally, I ride pretty fast granted, I am striving to focus on as much else as is possible. The future, the guy thats about to make a turn into your projected path 300m ahead of you or the noise of scraping over ice coming from the people just dropped over the roller ahead of you. I find a lot of fear comes from the unknown. If we can therefore find a way to collect as much information as possible on the 'unknown' then we can make a calculated decision that reduces said fear.
Fear
The real fear that bites at me is to do with stuff outwith your own control. The most common case for me is when riding off piste, leading groups or just searching for freshies and people above you do things that are potentially life threatening. Cutting straight across convex rolls above your position with a group of 10ppl all huddled together!!They are too far away to shout and its too late to move should something happen. That scares me. Bulgarian drivers...them too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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eclectic, your second quote was from my post. No, I don't ski in a world of my own, I keep an eye on what's going on around me, as much as possible. The last - and worst - time I was wiped out, was by an out-of-control skier above me, and out of my aural and visual range until virtually the moment he hit me. On a particularly crowded piste, I'll often get myself out of the range of unguided missiles by doing very short radius turns (as quickly as I can manage) on the very edge of the piste. That's only a limited solution: it'll get me out of the way of people zig-zagging across most of the slope, but it's also a place where speed merchants like to schuss. 
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Hurtle, nothing directed at you in particular. There are always going to be unavoidable situations where people skiing beyond their means come careering into the back of us.
More what I was trying to get at is people who make drastic changes in direction/set off from stationary without looking around first. I think if everyone took a second to take in not only their own actions and plans but more of the surrounding environment and whats going on around them then the number of accidents could be reduced drastically and thus the fear of this type of crash becoming less dominant.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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eclectic,
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More what I was trying to get at is people who make drastic changes in direction/set off from stationary without looking around first. I think if everyone took a second to take in not only their own actions and plans but more of the surrounding environment and whats going on around them then the number of accidents could be reduced drastically and thus the fear of this type of crash becoming less dominant.
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Absolutely agreed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think some of you think too much. You can't control getting taken out by some numptie, and it doesn't really matter what speed you are doing when it happens. It will probably hurt anyway, so why think about it. Do you sit at home and think about your ceiling falling on you? (OK - I know it is easy to dismiss it as irrational, but more difficult to actually deal with it when it happens.... little tiger - it seems that you are the least worst option when someone need to crash into another skiier. Follow natures example and exhibit some discouraging signs. Maybe wave your poles about when you aren't using them. Think of the numpties option now - "Do I want to hit a 6'3, 100kg man or the end of a ski pole?"
You can control how fast you are going, but you shouldn't confuse this with being in control no matter how fast you are going. You can be ploughing down a green at less than walking speed, easily in control of your speed, but not actually in control of where you are going or where you are stopping. On the flip side, you can be flat out straight towards the center of the earth with the ability to turn sharply or stop within your vision range. I would guess that beanie1 falls into the second category, but just hasn't realised it yet.
On reading this thread I have realised how good our instructor was in our first week. First thing he did was to get us to touch our ski tips from a standing position and make a couple of linked turns - it was just about doable - seemed pointless until he asked us to touch the back of our skis and repeat the turns - firstly, it is virtually impossible to stand up, and if you can, you can't do anything as complicated as steer at the same time. So lesson one was was keep your weight forward unless you want to spend your time careering out of control. Easy lesson to learn on day 1, but probably a lot more difficult some time down the line. Next lesson was to hold a tennis ball between your knees and ski down a simple green. Tennis ball is your steering wheel and handbrake, so if you want to go right move it to the right, left for left. If you want to stop, turn hard and pull up the handbrake. He had us all carving reds by day three (without the tennis ball thankfully) and using a combination of carving and skidding to control line and speed. After a couple of weeks this all seems completely natural and you don't have to think about it. Your brain registers a though and your bum, knees and ankles do what is required without further input.
For those of you who drive, it is like changing gear...... your brain says, 'revs are getting high' so your body changes gear. You don't actually think 'OK, left leg, move to the clutch... left hand move to the gear stick, left leg push in the clutch, while right leg let off the accelerator then left hand grab the gear stick, work out what gear you are in now, work out what gear you want to be in, move the gear stick in either (straight down, straight up, up and across, down and across the other way, am I in 5th, do I have 6 gears, where does the lever go....... delete as appropriate) now left leg let the clutch out until you gets the binding point, right leg, press the accelerator about 3-4mm to match the revs in the gearbox to the revs on the engine, left leg let the clutch out fully, left had back to the wheel, right foot press a bit harder, another 0.5 mm should do it............. If you had to think about this for every gear change you would have no confidence in being able to do all the other stuff that needs done.
So like I said - I think some of you think too much - Fastman suggest that you widen your comfort zone, and the techniques he suggest are what I have been taught from day 1, but another way to look at it are to make the basics into a reflex rather than a thought process, then allow yourself time to think about the things you need to think about (like, should I have paid for a proper plasterer to do the ceiling? )
p.s. - Speed is relative - If you think you are going fast, learn to ride a motorbike. Get your knee down in the rain at 100 MPH - contact patch the size of a postage stamp and the only thing between you and the tree are a few pieces of pointy metal......After that, nothing the slopes can throw at you looks that scary
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Thornyhill, Too true... on skis I don't mind crashing at all... but on the bike it's a very different matter. I remember highsiding an old CBR600 on a wet patch once, getting thrown off apart from my throttle hand but landed back on it mid overtake and it (luckily) came back into line. Kinda made me haul in the reigns a touch and to progress at a very gentle rate.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| Thornyhill, Too true... on skis I don't mind crashing at all... but on the bike it's a very different matter. I remember highsiding an old CBR600 on a wet patch once, getting thrown off apart from my throttle hand but landed back on it mid overtake and it (luckily) came back into line. Kinda made me haul in the reigns a touch and to progress at a very gentle rate. |
Bet you wish you could get that on youtube.......
As I said, it is relative - that probably scared the s**t out of you, but you become accustomed to that kind of speed. You are isolated from speed in a car, but you feel every atom of air on a bike, so you know you are ' making good progress.' I wouldn't like to guesstimate the speed of quick run down a steep trail, but if you know your brakes are top notch and your steering and suspension are completely sorted you can always feel happy pushing for that little bit extra.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thornyhill, Yeah... I have a naked speed triple 1050 and even with 100+ litres of luggage kept up with locals on the Stelvio pass this year and got an indicated 155mph on the autobahn. Got a bit worrying when the white started showing though the rear tyre though
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Poster: A snowHead
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The problem with fear, as far as skiing goes, is that it can have a hugely negative effect on technique and cause you to ski in the very way that will lead to a fall/scary incident. I used to think that the only answer was more lessons but actually all I needed was the miles. Gradually over the last 2 seasons I've expanded my comfort zone, almost without realising, I'm skiing faster and steeper, and rather than thinking 'I can't', I'm now thinking 'I can do that' and I am
One of the most important things for me has been improving my fitness, so now not only do I have confidence in my technique, I know that I'm not going to loose that technique due to fatigue and lack of stamina. I no longer stand at the top of narrow/steep/crowded/chopped up pistes (they all used to freak me) thinking OMG I can't do that, I don't allow myself the time, I pick a line and go for it. I've also managed to stop seeing falls as failure, a fall used to play on my mind but now I see it as part of skiing. My husband, who I think is a good skier, often falls over but rarely hurts himself (never seriously) and some of the falls have been huge!
I also think age does play a part in fear, we tend to become more cautious as we age and I think that learning to ski when you're older (I started in my early 40's) is bound to make progress slower because of the fear factor.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| skimum wrote: |
| I no longer stand at the top of narrow/steep/crowded/chopped up pistes (they all used to freak me) thinking OMG I can't do that, I don't allow myself the time, I pick a line and go for it. |
Good advice. It's a little known fact that the longer you stand at the top of a slope and look down the steeper/icier/bumpier it becomes 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rob@rar,
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the longer you stand at the top of a slope and look down the steeper/icier/bumpier it becomes
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That is SO true.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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little tiger,
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"So it is YOU making those beautiful figure 8's" Instructor just grinned at me and said "see others do not see the same things you think you feel"
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I think that is true of a lot of skiers, I tend to find people who are keen to have lessons tend to be overly critical of themselves and when they see themselves ski on video are actually doing better than they thought they had been skiing.
fastman thanks for the tip on the GS skis. I have been on very very short SL skis for several months now so it may be a bit of a shock to get back on some proper skis.
comprex good point (as always)... I guess trying to come up with rational solutions to irrational emotions or hard wired reactions probably wont work
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I am a defensive skier, the sound of boarder breaking behind sends me into a skidding halt, which is probably the worst thing i could do. I would love to increase speed and therefore manoeuvrability but on the odd occasions i have done that I have had to really push myself and i still find myself bracing for impact. I guess the answer is more lessons and more time on the mountain, as my confidence increases massively each lesson I have, even with ESF. There must be some mental techniques too though, because once you have the fear it is hard to loose for the rest of the day.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You can be ploughing down a green at less than walking speed, easily in control of your speed, but not actually in control of where you are going or where you are stopping.
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well, yes (I sort of recognise that description from being on a snowboard). But anyone "100% in control of their speed" ought also to be 100% control or where they stop (or turn for that matter). and if you feel you're losing that (as I did once on a snowboard, with a whole class of 4 year old snaking across the entire width of the nursery slope when it was beyond my skill to thread my way through them) then you deck it. There's really no excuse for ploughing into somebody because "you couldn't stop". I've seen beginner snowboarders fall deliberately rather than crash into someone, more than once. Skiers should do the same. Or if they're really not willing to do that, then slow down. You see heaps of skiers going too fast for their skills - and they're not all boy racers.
I do think it's important to lose the fear of falling because it leads to such huge anxiety and tension, which is exhausting. And as for seeing falling as a failure - just watch a bunch of 10 year olds mucking about on a kicker.
It's horrible being on crowded pistes. I'm lucky in that I practically never am, but many people could reduce their chance of being hit by some idiot if they didn't insist on skiing down narrow, icy, crowded runs into the valley at the end of the day.
I know this is going to be an unpopular and controversial comment but I also think that having an ipod and some appropriate music can help people relax and feel more positive. If an out of control slope user hits you from behind your chances of injury will be far greater if you heard him coming a second or so before impact and tensed up or - much worse - slowed down dramatically or stopped, thus increasing the closing speed between you.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I've seen beginner snowboarders fall deliberately rather than crash into someone, more than once. Skiers should do the same. Or if they're really not willing to do that, then slow down. |
Is that because boarders accept falling as a normal part of the activity but skiers instinctively do everything possible to avoid a fall?
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| I do think it's important to lose the fear of falling because it leads to such huge anxiety and tension, which is exhausting. |
Absolutely. My first fall was the last experience of my first ski trip. Having got totally out of control and finding myself acclerating at what felt like 90mph, I took the bailing out choice, the alternative being hit the pylon at the bottom. It was overall a pretty terrifying experience - and it was the terror that stayed with me, not the fact that I was unhurt. I was discussing this at lunch today with hubby who grew up riding horses. He says "you ride, you fall off" and shrugged. He asked if I feared falling off a bike every time I ride it down the street - no, I don't. He agrees with the "mileage" issue, saying the first time you do anything new, especially when older, it's scary but you need to keep doing it and while your body improves its technique, your mind will gradually lose the fear. He has reassured me that despite what he often says, actually he's stopped worrying I will get hurt each time I ski - and promises to try to bolster my confidence, not feed my fear in the future!
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| I also think that having an ipod and some appropriate music can help people relax and feel more positive. |
I've heard it said quite a few times that some music can help you relax and improve rhythm. Maybe it is a good thing not to hear what's coming - after all, what chance of doing anything about it? If someone yelled "Look Out", my chance of effective avoiding action would be slim anyway. My sister has no choice - she's deaf - she says it does concern her that she can't hear trouble approaching on the slope, but she puts it out of her mind and just gets on with the skiing.
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Butterfly, I was once (during my second week) attempting to carve an empty blue and skim my trailing hand across the snow as I did so... OK.. perhaps a little ambitious but I was getting my hand down. As I came over a crest there was an instructor 100m below me with a line of 15 to 20 behind him stretching from right to left across the entire piste. With a fresh dump of snow I decided to head off piste rather than attempt a stop and suddenly found that 12 inches of fresh snow required more delicacy than I could muster. Think of the opening credits of 'The Six Million Dollar Man'. I was spun round many times in a maelstrom of airbourne snow and came to a rest approx 20m below my skis... one of which was standing upright in the snow like a maypole. Not a bruise on me.. been happily falling ever since
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Something that is coming out of this thread is that it would appear that fear is not just limited to us newer skiers. Several of the more experienced posters here have described their own fear when doing more advanced things and how they overcome it. It begs the questions, although we may not like it, is fear part of the reason we ski (the adrenaline rush maybe)? and is actually experiencing and ultimately overcoming fear good for us?
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Megamum, It really does stop us from becoming bored.
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FAQ
