 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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"Leisuredome UK, which hopes to start building the attraction by the end of this year"
Oh yes please 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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just got back from the presentation, much more than pie in the sky this, if i could id load the pictures up from my phone, but havent worked that out, stuck them on facebook.
Basically, 210m main slope 60m learners slope, two surf wave things, tallest rock climbing wall in the area, largest indoor play centre, 500+ jobs direct 2-300 indirect.
There were representatives from all the main parties, McAlpine, plus the architects, planning company, etc etc.
Very detailed, if planning is given looking to start in October.
Main problem may well be the Highways Agency, but the traffic flow is not exactly going to affect the problems we have in weston as its very much exiting WSM in the morning, and entering at rushhour, so doesnt seem that much of a problem.
The proposed site is 'brownfield' as it was the old RAF camp.
this is not official just what i picked up at the presentation
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iskar, Thanks for that update. Sounds like it might happen. It will save me the trek to Tamworth.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yes have just got back myself and would like to echo what iskar has said, this is a serious proposal and from what I gather the plan is to begin groundworks in the latter part of 2011/start of 2012 with the building opening in 2013.
The architect is the same one that designed Hemel by the way and the site is close to junction 21 on the M5.
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I have heard on the grapevine that this has funding, but what I'd like to know is who from? I'm curious. No bank would fund this, and to fund it entirely with equity would give a very poor ROI. From a PE perspective, there are very many more investment opportunities out there at the moment that give higher returns for lower risk. Someone must be funding this out of pure love for skiing!! 
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beanie1, if you check out the guys behind this they own a number of very successful companies and I believe are not short of a few quid but 50 million seems a lot to stump up! I would say at least one of them, possibly both, is in it for love of skiing although obviously love or not neither of them will want to throw their money away!
As you say though it does appear to have funding and I'm now convinced that unless something outwith their control happens to completely stop them in their tracks the project will go ahead!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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well, weve just had a £50m pier funded, dont suppose a bank would be interested in that either?? half a million people a year, average spend?? i dont know you do the maths , i guess someone with a better handle on finances has already 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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iskar, i work in private equity real estate funding and have some experience of indoor slopes so know how the numbers work.
I've since heard that this being funded privately - so I guess just some wealthy people for whom building a slope in more important than making money.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Well I don't know much about the cost of running an indoor slope. But I do know how many people are on the slope at Chille factore every time I pop into Snow and Rock, and I do know how much electicity the big chest freezer in my garage uses (wife won't let me scrap it, she doesn't pay the leccy bill).
So taking these 2 factors alone I cannot see how anyone would consider pumping £30m or so into another indoor dome would be a good investment. Then there's the catchment area W-S-M
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Kel, i have to agree, the recession seems to have taken hold, just look at the offers pouring out of CF, somethings not right. Not sure this makes sense.
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The reason that a lot of slopes are not built on hillsides is that sadly they have nothing at all to do with skiing  Take the Xscape's for example the big must have for these developments is a Cinema and without that the development will not be started.
The next big must have is retail unit 'sign up' by the big names. Once those key components are onboard then the slope is designed around the cinema and retail unit leasholder requirements, So if you look at the Xscape slopes they are far from the optimal design. The slopes are very much secondary to the cinema etc.
Interestingly Xscape deemed it entirely unnecessary to have a buisness plan for the snowsports when the facilities were built, the slopes are mearly there as a 'draw' to make it easier sell the leases on the retail units. This also explains why they realy dont care about the snow quality Unlike Hemmel and Chill which were concieved with snowsports as a primary buisness model.
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You know it makes sense.
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Well lets just hope it goes ahead - i hate driving from Chard (somerset) to Tamworth for a slide when i'm at my parents. If the scheme is being funded purely for the love of skiing, maybe they'll pump out 3' of fresh pow ovenight and sell first tracks tickets 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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As I said in the other thread on this, if Bristol City Council have any say in this it won't happen as they're hopeless IME. However Weston is in North Somerset authority now so maybe it will happen. Pity it's the wrong side of Bristol for me although only 40 mins away. I used to take students to Churchill (anyone remember Chris, the best instructor I've come across on a dry slope) and sometimes Gloucester. A local fridge would be fantastic. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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billb, I remember Chris and Dominic (one of my former protegees and a superb instructor!)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Samerberg Sue, I used to take a student group on Wednesday afternoons (late 80s) and Chris was often the instructor. I once asked Chris for some advice and he said "How's your Physics?". "OK" I said. "Well stand side on to the slope and hold out a pole and I'll try to pull you over". It worked. Next run down was like being on rails. I've never forgotten that. He knew what to do with who he was dealing with.
There was also Robbie, a young lad who'd come into instructing via a YTS scheme I think. He moved to Aviemore - gave my boys a lesson on Cairngorm once.
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billb, So that was when John Lee was still alive (he and his wife started the slope). i also remember Robbie from the ski hire at first then he gradually moved up through from ASSI.
I was also a part-timer there and at Gloucester through the 70s and 80s when in the UK. I taught in Eastville for my main job though
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| roga wrote: |
The architect is the same one that designed Hemel by the way |
Let's hope he'll learn from his mistakes then. Whilst a great effort and the best so far, there are a few things that could have been done that weren't.
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^ What sort of things would you suggest could have been done better?
I really like the Hemel dome but I guess if you work there you must notice negatives that the rest of us miss.
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roga,
When I first saw the plans of Hemel, my initial thoughts concerned the lift system. Things IMV that should have been done:
Hang poma supports from walls rather than have pylons. The structure has an external steel framework that could easily support the load by beefing up the relevant columns. This would enable a wider skiing area than current, enable piste basher to piste right to the walls also, this of course combined with a high level return for the poma cable. All for no extra building width.
Have a small poma lift on nursery slope so that introduction to a drag lift could be done on a slow lift, not on the main slope. The rope tow lifts are terrible. A travellator or rope with hook system should be employed as first beginner lift system.
Changing room floor should have falls on the surface to floor drains, at Hemel none exist so the changing room ends up like a swimming pool.
PA & music system is combined, rather than being separate, so music has to play everywhere at the same volume.
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roga, The floors are way too slippy -there's less friction in the changing and bar areas than on the slope! It's incredibly easy to slip over 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| billb wrote: |
| As I said in the other thread on this, if Bristol City Council have any say in this it won't happen as they're hopeless IME. However Weston is in North Somerset authority now so maybe it will happen. |
Maybe that's why they've chosen Weston - can't think why else you'd put it so far west. South of the M4 junction, Cribbs exit and that bloody hill south of the Avon bridge. Three potential bottlenecks to contend with - still, nearer than Tamworth.
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For what it's worth the public areas at chill are looking very tired already.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Spyderman,
Yeah, thinking about it I can see exactly what you mean about the lifts so I'd have to totally agree there.
I haven't seen the floors when they've been wet but can imagine that at busy periods they must get very wet and I guess that contributes to what Jivebaby says about the slippy floors. As I recall the stairs can be quite slippy too if you're not careful.
| andyph wrote: |
| billb wrote: |
| As I said in the other thread on this, if Bristol City Council have any say in this it won't happen as they're hopeless IME. However Weston is in North Somerset authority now so maybe it will happen. |
Maybe that's why they've chosen Weston - can't think why else you'd put it so far west. South of the M4 junction, Cribbs exit and that bloody hill south of the Avon bridge. Three potential bottlenecks to contend with - still, nearer than Tamworth. |
Yeay I'm guessing Weston has been chosen because building a facility of this sort fits in with the council's local plan and the area in question is a brown field site, close to the motorway and earmarked for this type of development anyway. Bristol City council's competence can't have helped either I'm guessing. Having dealt with them on a neighbourhood renewal project years ago I sure wouldn't want to have to deal with them on a project of this size and magnitude! However there are other areas covered by South-Gloucestershire and closer to the M4 that might have been considered but I'd guess none that fitted in quite so neatly with pre-existing plans and would have such strong backing from the council.
According to the information on the Leisuredome site there's something like 6 million people within 2 hours driving distance so in terms of access to large populations it seems like as good a choice as Bristol. However I take the point about bottlenecks, that section of the M5 can be very congested also the route from junction 21 but have you tried driving to Hemel from the south (London)? I'd suggest that's hardly uncongested, nor is the drive to Tamworth from the South West, particularly with that stretch of variable speed limit motorway which is invariably congested at busy times.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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roga, andyph, maybe they think themajority of their clientelle will be from the SW, Exeter, Plymouth etc as well as bristol, with those in wales having the choice of the new slope or Tam, so putting it south of these 'bottlenecks' makes sense? i assume you're from the north side of these problems?
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rogg, I'd be heading there from Bristol and can easily bypass one of the bottlenecks (Cribbs), and it's usually okay anyway but can get bad on Saturdays at the Cribbs junction although the other lanes generally move okay, if a little slower than usual.
To be honest the main bottleneck is at Junction 21 and into Weston which is probably the preferred route from the south too so I don't think coming from either direction will make much difference.
Once over on the bridge from Wales it'll take half an hour at most I'd say to get down to Junction 21 (takes me around 15 minutes to get to the bridge from Cribbs and around 15/20 minutes to Weston) whereas the trip to Tam would take an hour and a half at least (I've done it many times) so I'd say from South Wales it'd be quicker to get to Weston (and less petrol).
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You know it makes sense.
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roga, I'd definitely go to a fridge at Weston (from South Glos) but Tamworth is just too damn far for me (never been). Will you be instructing......... ?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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billb, yes I think there's a sizeable catchment area for any dome in the South-West, if you take a look at the SCUK map of where the current domes are there's a big gap in that particular part of the country so to me it's a no brainer.
As for instructing I haven't got a clue, let's see it built first ... at the moment I'm quite happy at the Gloucester dry slope but who knows in a year or twos time ...
A related question that I've been wondering about is the impact a project like this would have on the local dry slopes, closest is the Avon slope (Churchill) which I suspect is sadly the most likely casualty. To the south, and I think probably slightly closer than Gloucester is Yeovil Alpine Village, I don't know the slope so can't really comment apart from to say it looks pretty small. There are a few others too but they're slightly further away. As for Gloucester I think it may survive (given some investment and a strategy for maintaining a market share) but I suspect some of the local ski clubs might be tempted to move to the dome for training which might affect the slope but I guess time will tell!
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Poster: A snowHead
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roga, I would guess that Christchurch Dry slope (snowTrax) would feel the effect as well.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spud, you wait twenty years for a snowdome and then etc etc
Lyneham would be nearer than Weston for me, a doddle for Bristolians I should think, plus anyone on the M4 corridor from Cardiff up to the the Hemel/Milton Keynes "watershed". A lot of strings attached to that proposal (not least who's fronting it) but could be interesting...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Trouble with Lyneham is that the MoD may shortly have a change of requirement and need to keep it. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Boredsurfing, don't know the Christchurch Dry slope but it strikes me it's a fair old drive away from Weston/Bristol.
spud, strikes me the Lyneham proposal is one of the many instances of someone taking a punt to see if there's any interest in building a dome and other facilities. The base is still being used by the RAF and it's by no means clear they will vacate the place and then there's lengthy planning and consultation to go through. The difference with the Weston proposal is it's in the final stages of that lengthy process and there's a proposed start date for building later this year. If it falls through and the RAF vacate then perhaps Lyneham might be a goer in the next decade or so but there are also proposals being punted every so often in Cardiff and Swindon - I expect most, if not all of these to evaporate eventually especially if Weston gets the go ahead.
andyph, I've driven to Lyneham from Bristol and it's a lot farther than the drive to Weston for me.
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Like you say, it all depends on whether the RAF vacate or not. The area could do with the jobs. And tbh, it would attract people from Bristol, but it really is a totally different catchment area. Depending on which side of Bristol you live can make a huge difference in travel time. Lyneham would be much closer for me. Bath, Swindon, Gloucester, Cheltenham, Reading, Southampton, Oxford....all places within easy reach of it.
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That would be brilliant as it would be nice and close. However that aside, I would try and plan to visit the WSM one but it would be very occasional because of the distance. Wiltshire one, that would be a regular thing. Heres hoping.
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Seems like everyone wants one built on their doorstep, I've got to drive 18 minutes to get to Hemel, there are plenty of hills closer to me they could build one on.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Spyderman wrote: |
| Seems like everyone wants one built on their doorstep, I've got to drive 18 minutes to get to Hemel, there are plenty of hills closer to me they could build one on. |
Doorstep? I would settle for something within 2hrs drive!!!
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| spud wrote: |
| Like you say, it all depends on whether the RAF vacate or not. The area could do with the jobs. And tbh, it would attract people from Bristol, but it really is a totally different catchment area. |
Yeah it is a different catchment and I'm sure the jobs would be handy.
To be honest which one gets built will depend on who starts building first and odds have to be on Weston given where the bid is at now, they have the finance and the land, they have the plans and are in the final stages of their application for planning permission whereas the Lynham plan seems to be just a proposal with nothing else in place.
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| Depending on which side of Bristol you live can make a huge difference in travel time. |
Sure it can but I can get to the M31 (out of Bristol to the M4) in less than 10 minutes, maybe 15 if it's busy and then it's a reasonably quick drive East but it's still quicker to head down to Weston.
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| Lyneham would be much closer for me. |
Where are you out of interest?
Deffo but given I can do the M5 from Bristol to the Bath junction in around 10 to 15 minutes and Weston is no more than say 20 minutes further I'd say there's a marginal difference for Bath. Swindon is right on the doorstep of Lyneham though so you're quite right there but also remember for anyone heading there unlike the Weston proposal it's a few miles away from the motorway junction with the main road (A3102 off Junction 16) going through the centre of Wooton Basset. I once went for a job interview down that way and decided the travel wasn't worth it after negotiating the morning and afternoon traffic off the motorway!
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| Gloucester, Cheltenham |
Not so sure about that, have you ever tried going cross country from there? Get stuck behind traffic (as you invariably do) and it's a slow slog with loads of speed cameras ... if you don't get stuck the cameras are still there! The alternative route being down the M5 and then the M4 but that's definitely much longer in distance than going to Weston.
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| Reading, Southampton, Oxford |
But all well served (at least Reading and Oxford are) by Hemel and Milton Keyes and it has to only be a matter of time before a dome is built to the south of London which would suit Southampton better.
The difference with the Weston location is that it is within easy reach of a wide swathe of the west (including South Wales) that is currently not served by a dome at all (as in it's often near enough 2 hours or more to get to one).
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