 Poster: A snowHead
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| narc, you wouldn't read it. They never read anything they're given, and then get all irate with you because 'you should have told me'. |
You have a very low opinion of your customers 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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This really is all very useful. Thanks for the help.
Am not going to comment on individual items as it could be seen as just an advert.
eg. Jonny Jones, we do 5 (and 6 if needed) bedded rooms, etc etc
The vast majority of what has been put down is sortable (hopefully) but some we couldn't change if we wanted to.
Others (the majority) we already sorted years ago.
The list is now up to more than 85
Many thanks for your feedback,
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Inflexibility/outrageous supplements for singles,triples etc (basically any odd numbered group size).
Staff who put cake out before the lifts shut then allow their mates to scoff it before the punters get back.
Waiting on the first morning for reps to deliver lift passes.
5am transfer buses on departure day for early afternoon flights
Grenoble airport
(Caveat not been on a package for over 8 years but have visited people who were/ dined in chalet as a guest and found some great ones too)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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fatbob,
I don't think anyone (that I know of) charges for tripples do they?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Maybe not but I've been shoved in a regular twin room with a bunk so there should be a discount equivalent to single supplement in my view.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| achilles, the older ones are 'villas', the new refurb units are 'lodges'. CP is one of our clients at work. |
Good contract, I would think. I think ours was an 'old style executive lodge' - but the booking was handled by Mrs a, so I'm not sure. CP was very handy to Longleat Safari, which was a major pull for us, and a very good place for pulling disparate elements of the family together. Drifting OT - apologies. The point is that the sauna was a total surprise to me, and none of us got round to using it.
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I hate TOs 'cos they are continually conducting Market Surveys, Focus Groups & Product Research sessions but all they ever do is boast about how good they are but never change anything.
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| Quote: |
You have a very low opinion of your customers
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I have over a dozen years experience of ski TO customers.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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All of my ski Holidays so far have been with T.O's. There have been problems - non arrival of skis until the wednesday, 5 hour bus transfers, hotel 200m up a mountain from lift etc....... but Once I booked them I just looked forward to them. And thoroughly enjoyed all of them.
This year doing first DIY..........Booked Apartment, booked flight, trying to decide between taxi and hire car.....................
what if flight diverted ?
what if trying to drive in a blizzard ?
what if flight delayed ?
what if can't put snow chains on ?
I think there is added pressure because I am organising for another family as well as ours - but I know I will not relax until we arrive at resort and are safely in our accommodation.
with T.O. - anything goes wrong...their fault ...get the rep.they sort it out
DIY - you are on your own!!
Certain it will be a T.O. next time .......unless all goes 100% perfect...... all crossed only 118 days to worry about it.
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| Quote: |
paulio,
You may be interested in this.
Last Half Term I asked one of the hotels to count the number of times that our clients used the hotel sauna. Not 1 (nil, zilch, nowt) in a whole week.
But when asked why they choose that particular hotel the sauna was high on the list. Go figure, as I can't work it out.
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Hmmmm...perhaps the reason no-one used it was that there was a strange bloke watching people going in? Just a thought...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Single rooms and single supplements have never been a big problem for me via TOs. Plenty of TOs offer single rooms in hotels in Italy and Austria, often without supplement (although it seems single rooms are rare in France, I wonder why?). This forthcoming season's trip and last season's I've booked hotels without single rooms and had to pay a supplement of less than £70 for a double room for sole occupancy. Far better value than booking a twin room for sole use in the UK (I normally have to pay double). Admittedly it is easy to find and book single rooms the DIY way, but I always fell at the finding affordable flights and transfers hurdle so I'm more than happy to stick with TOs.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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OK Wayne, you asked for it. However, I have also had many positive experiences. On the negative side I will stick to ski holidays.
Delivering the wrong lift passes to our apartment, and sticking them under the door instead of handing them to us. This meant we had two lift passes and not four. We had to chase rep around Belle Plagne and missed a days ski school.
Same company put us in beginners ski lessons (yes it was on the same trip).
Putting us in a 'kitchenette' suite in Canada which said twin+double on the booking form, but had two v small doubles. Not a problem for us, but our 6ft sons had a 4ft bed to share. Their solution was for us to buy an airbed and they would supply bedding, or move us for a payment of $1000 .
Arriving at our resort one hour after the welcome meeting, which was another 10 minutes walk from our accommodation . We had arranged to meet friends in a resort nearby which they offered a day trip too. Trip was 'full' cos we missed the welcome meeting.
Went to the same resort and same hotel as previous year thanks to our good experience. Flight times the same, v early departure, but no problem as the first time, they arranged breaksfast before we left. This time, dining room was firmly locked, and we had to leave without even a coffee, bakery wasn't open either. Very small kids were very hungry and very grumpy by the time we got to the airport on a long transfer.
I will add that all of these were major tour ops. I don't have any choice from NE England. Either DIY or TUI.
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| Wayne wrote: |
paulio,
You may be interested in this.
Last Half Term I asked one of the hotels to count the number of times that our clients used the hotel sauna. Not 1 (nil, zilch, nowt) in a whole week.
But when asked why they choose that particular hotel the sauna was high on the list. Go figure, as I can't work it out. |
It is one of the things I always look for, but I do use it, usually every evening.
But I have noticed that it is much more other nationalities who do so, very few of the other Brits have used the sauna in most of the hotels I have stayed at.
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You know it makes sense.
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| narc wrote: |
Welcome meetings - I came here to ski, I only have 6 days, I don't want to listen to rep drivel - always skip them
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Must admit, I have never known a welcome meting that was during the time the lifts were operating.
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I want my lift pass in advance so I can get the first lift not when a rep decides to give it to me,
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Yep. Prticularly when you have an early moring flight, so are arriving in resort in time to get a bit of skiing in. 6 day lift passes are often valid from late afternoon the previous day, but if the rep doesn't get it to you until the following morning, that isn't much use.
Which is why I never order those through the TO nowadays.
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I also want to get my skis early (if I rented) not when the rep decides and 100 people are all there at once
Long check in queues for charter flights
Long waits for transfer buses since you have to wait for everyone on the flight to sort themselves out
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The first is N/A for me, since I have my own, but agree that the other two are definitely things I don;t like about TO holidays.
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Being lumped together with a load of brits in a foreign country, I want to get away from brits if I go abroad!
Equipment hire usually works out as poor value (never hired through a TO but family has) the hire shop will dig out old crappy gear
Only go to well known resorts. Probably a positive really since the nice places don't get spoiled by TOs and brits 
The last time I used a TO was 8 years ago and I have never looked back. I hate the inflexibility and extra hassle. |
Well I always use TO's (so far) fro ki holidays, partly because I have never been able to beat their price for an equivalent holiday, and partly because I travel by myself, and you have a better chance of finding others to ski with when you go with a TO. I would be more likely to go DIY if I was going with others.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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We mostly do DIY now but occasionally still have a foray into Chalet World.
I must say that top of my list of hates is the resort rep. Why are they all so incompetent? Top prize goes to one individual who said he was available 24/7 and we were to contact him with any problem, now matter how small. One of our party wanted to spend a lot of money on a tandem parapent flight and asked him, politely, three times to book one. It never happened! Still, not as bad as one rep in Tignes who, the week before we arrived had neglected to book the transfer from resort to airport. Lots of unhappy punters freezing their nuts off at 5 in the morning wondering where the coach was!
Next up is the girl on the transfer bus that wants to sell you skis and boots (no we don't need them, thanks) and a lift pass. It'll be ready when you get there and yes, it really won't cost any more money. When, in fact, you have to wait ages for the passes and the TO uses it's own, ridiculous, exchange rate. We always get our own now - now matter how angry the rep gets. And, yes, they have got very angry with us for that!
The live-out chalet host who didn't turn up to make breakfast on the day after strike-night and later had the cheek to try and charge £1 for an accidentally broken mug.
All those jolly-you-along events like picnics and karaoke nights that actually turn out really boring.
Difficult to pitch right but :- most standard TO menus try too hard and just ends up rich and pretentious.
Crap 'free' wine.
And finally. In a mixed chalet, why is it that there is always someone (always a man) who thinks they are God's gift to conversation but are, in reality, are utterly boring? For some reason they often seem to be involved in agriculture. Perhaps you could advertise farmer-free holidays, Wayne. It would certainly attract my attention.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
You have a very low opinion of your customers
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I have over a dozen years experience of ski TO customers. |
Just because 90% of your customers don't read, by NOT providing an info package, you're making sure the "other" 10% will not use you again.
My reason for always DIY? I don't like being treated EXACTLY like the rest of the 90% 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
You have a very low opinion of your customers
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I have over a dozen years experience of ski TO customers. |
Don't take many TO holidays nowadays for various reasons the prime one being expense. The feeling that is expressed above though that the TO is continuously trying to pitch to the lowest common denominator is not an added attraction.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Overall I have been impressed by TO for skiingm, it is the only time I don;t DIY holiday.
there are gripes as others have main for me are
1) over priced ski hire - I always book my own and maybe had to walk 200m further last year, but paid less than 1/2 price. Tis year it would cost E238 for 4 peoples ski/boots etc (in Tignes via ski republic) TO wants £474!!
2) horrible flight times, although we prevented this by flying on a sunday with a to and had an 8.30am flight, we live 45 mins from airport so 5.30 leave the house which isn't bad.
3) long transfers - v unrealsitic in brochure. it says 2.5 hours, takes 4 + with no food and after 90 min wait at airposrt for other flights.
THIS YEAR WE HAVE BOOK TO BUT EUROSTAR!!! * days ski, same price holiday and a 40 min transfer!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Oh, the transfer! On the way there, you always have to wait for the flight from the north/south of England which will only be 20 mins. That's 20 mins from when you've all sat down on the bus. Actually an hour time difference. But of course someone's always missing because of lost bag/ski/mind so another half hour. Then half of the original passengers have gone walkabout to the loo, as they're expecting (from experience) for the 2.5 hour journey to be more than 3. Of course there is always a loo on the bus. Of course it it always "out of order". We have been told, on more than one occasion, that the reason is not plumbing, it is because the TO will not pay for the cleaning so it cannot be used. 20 euros, it was. We offered to have a whip round but it was too late. 
Oh yes, there used to be DVDs shown on the bus too. But again, nowadays, TOs will not pay for the broadcasting licence so we have to suffer the crap music the driver chooses. And the air con. That costs too so, airless as the coach is, they will not put it on. At least the old buses had windows. Now, they prefer to have kids vomiting all over the place.
And why do the baggage racks above have to be 4 inches deep so they won't take rucksacs.
And why is there never enough leg room? And you thought the plane was cramped enough  .
And why, when you've made a detour to some god-awful bus station in the middle of nowhere to get dropped off the coach, is the minibus, which is supposed to be there to meet you, never there? Why do they not send the minibus to the bl@@dy airport in the first place in which case you would have been at resort 2 bl@@dy hours ago?
Similar scenario for the start at 4.00 am transfer for a 1.00 pm departure .......
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You know, reading all this, I think we've been very fortunate!
Seriously, we've found that TOs work very well for us. This may be because all we want is flight/transfer/accommodation - we don't need our hands held in resort, & if we could DIY cheaper, we would (& believe me, I check!), but as a couple who can go at short notice & pick up the discounted packages, it really has been the best option. Sometimes we buy the lift pass from the rep (if the caisse is miles away from the chalet & there's a lift right next door, for example) & sometimes we don't. We've got our own gear, so no worries there. We've never had a pushy or rude rep, btw - again, I think we may well have been lucky in this regard. Or perhaps we just look a bit fierce  Mind you, we have met the odd rep who didn't have a clue. Not that it's ever been a problem for us... but last December we (& another 'punter') ended up answering questions & directing the driver (!!) on the coach up to Tignes because the rep had no idea about the resort, & didn't have a word of French He was a nice chap though - it's more a training issue, I guess... We've also met reps who were real resort enthusiasts & drew nice little off-piste routes for us on the map 
Wayne, sorry, bit off-topic, & we're really not your target punters, but it's good (IMO) that you're asking these questions. I think that, if I was a novice, a rep who really knew the resort & could advise on suitable runs (as in, that blue is a bit on the red side...  ) & nice lunch stops could make all the difference.
Oh, and honesty in brochures is always a good thing. I'm never going to be staying in a hotel which I thought would be right on the piste, but turned out to be miles away, because Google is my friend... However, if I find a that a company is consistently lying to me, I'm unlikely to book with them, however good the offer
I guess you know this already! Wish I could think of an original & helpful comment...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
top of my list of hates is the resort rep. Why are they all so incompetent?
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They're paid less than £100 a week. What do you want for that sort of money?
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most standard TO menus try too hard and just ends up rich and pretentious.
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I've been saying this for years. What's the matter with roast dinner, pasta dishes and casseroles? A friend of mine used to score serious brownie points from her guests because she more or less ignored the menu and made them curries and bolognese. She came in well under budget as well.
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poor flight times
paying for ski handling on ski flights
waiting around at airports
when they don't have decent chalet staff
over occupancy charges wheen you dont sleep 3 people on a bed settee in a lviing room for self catered
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Reps who sell lift passes and keep all discounts and the change.
Reps who try to make you take their trips and do there best to keep you in the dark about doing things for yourself.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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-The rep selling stuff - once I'm on the coach for the transfer, the only time I want to hear from him/her again is when he/she tells me we've arrived and it's time to get off! And when they bring the lift passes, which must be early. Other than that, if there's a problem, I'll call them.
-Queues in ski hire - I tell anyone travelling with me not to book through T/O or rep, but to walk into any rental shop in resort that doesn't have 150 other people waiting for service, and rent there.
-Leaving resort in middle of night on way home. Heading out early not so bad - you get to resort early and can suss out the accom and resort, and sort out ski hire etc, so you're ready to ski 1st thing in the morning.
-Check-in queues.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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So in short, you all want:
- fast VIP check-in
- private jets
- exclusive luxury door to door transfer, preferably by helicopter
- committed staff with years of customer service experience
- ski hire and other services tailored to your specific personal requirements
For under £600 for the week.
Have a look at how much that sort of holiday would actually cost you: http://www.consensioholidays.co.uk/tariffsa.html .............. and then shut your whining, you horrible impoverished peasants.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I can't bear the chit-chat on the bus to the resort. It makes me cringe when they say 'We'll shortly be arriving in resort' instead of 'at the resort'. On the way home they chat far too much about which check in we should go to at the airport when there might only be a choice of two. Far too low class for me. 
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Masque, crappy? I challenge you to draw a village map in two hours then! Time is money my friend.
Note to OP, sorry for meandering off-topic...
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You know it makes sense.
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I know you don't want to hear about positives but I think we've been very lucky and don't really have any negatives. We normally go with a TO mainly for the convenience of the transfer. Perhaps because we're on the Gatwick flight, which will probably be a main one, we've never had to wait more than 15 mins on the coach before leaving. We don't go to the welcome meetings, we have our own gear and get our own lift passes, we don't go on any trips organised. We don't have problems!
Even when the OH had an ski accident last year, it didn't occur to me to involve the TO (although there wasn't a rep in resort so would have been a bit more tricky!). What would they do that we couldn't?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Masque, not me personally no. It's not an EPS format, just a straight CS3 AI file with PDF compatibility. It is all vector data so should print fine depending on the quality of your RIP output device.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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We had some good experiences too - efficient coach transport (nobody puked), good value catered chalet, super chalet staff, congenial fellow guests, accurate descriptions.
The negatives - not getting what you booked (e.g. booking to stay in a catered chalet in Austria and ending up eating very poor evening meals in a corner of the dining room of the hotel next door). Being told that would be the case 48 hours before departing with a group of 15 and some very complex travel plans to get everyone to the departure airport from several points in the UK and two continents - or I'd have told them to stuff it.
No hooks on backs of doors, bathroom, bedroom - so cheap, so useful, so often absent
Rubbish hire equipment (didn't know any better than to book through the TO)
Late breakfast 'cos club hotel staff zonked in the morning
Horrible departure times
Slow transfers - trailing round other people's hotels when your own is last on a long list
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Edited
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sat 12-09-09 14:46; edited 2 times in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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You don't supply cakes? I withdraw revise my earlier estimate of being willing to spend £650 all-in to £2.50.
My inflexibility point was on very few single rooms available so if you're travelling as a party of 3 you're much more likely to be squeezed in a room which is too small for 3 people & kit than get a twin and a single. You charge a supplement for twin over double beds? Now that's cheeky.
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| fatbob wrote: |
You don't supply cakes? I withdraw revise my earlier estimate of being willing to spend £650 all-in to £2.50.
My inflexibility point was on very few single rooms available so if you're travelling as a party of 3 you're much more likely to be squeezed in a room which is too small for 3 people & kit than get a twin and a single. You charge a supplement for twin over double beds? Now that's cheeky. |
No, we charge for a single person in a twin or double room (as I imagine do all TO's)
We don't (again I imagine this is the same with all TO's) charge for a single person in a single room.
You have to remember that in most resorts, without a glacier, hotels and others have only a few weeks a year to earn the entire year's income. OK they may get a smaller amount during the summer, but most will come during the ski season. It may seem unfair to people travelling alone, but look at it from the hotel's view point.
Oh if you willing to spend 650 then (just for you, as a special favour) I'll put the prices up. I can be paid in Cakes (lots of em).
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Wayne, interesting that many complaints on here are for things that are outside a TO's control. You can get no hooks, mirrors etc in private rented accommodation too, not juts tour op places, although I hasten to add they are all supplied in my apartment.
Same goes for queuing at airports, airlines/airports fault not yours. fatbob, not uncommon to pay more (in France) for a twin room as opposed to a double. They are often larger rooms.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| Wayne, interesting that many complaints on here are for things that are outside a TO's control. You can get no hooks, mirrors etc in private rented accommodation too, not juts tour op places. Same goes for queuing at airports. fatbob, not uncommon to pay more (in France) for a twin room as opposed to a double. They are often larger rooms. |
Not sure about that. Last year Enza (owner of the Hotel Gran Baita) put new coat hangers (lots) in all the rooms. 5 weeks later tourist has pinched most of them. V strange.
I can't remmebr being in any hotels room without a mirror in the bathroom, ever.
The single/double/twin thing was my fault. I made a mistake in the replies. I have edited now. Sorry for the mixup.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 12-09-09 14:31; edited 1 time in total
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"Sorry" seem to occur a lot in your big post, Wayne, I just counted 12 as an apology plus one in your rep's guidelines. Surely if you are handling 1000 people per week you are a big enough TO to tell your suppliers what you want. And what you want is things that make your customers happy, that prevent them from complaining and that entice repeat business.
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FAQ
