 Poster: A snowHead
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paulio, tell insurance companies they can't cost in potential. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Last time I drove abroad it didn't alter my insurance premium. That's not as if I did anything cloak and dagger either. I phoned them specially to tell them what I was doing.
Insurance wasn't part of the cost of that journey, at all. Nothing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Frosty the Snowman, Ta. I recall that I did find a site which allowed for a lookup by model. I'll keep looking.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think I've learned to ignore all these costs due to having a French car.
The enormous cost associated with keeping the stupid thing on the road, thanks to the lazy stinking cretins who made it so incompetently in the first place*, is so massive it dwarfs the kind of costs that you are all talking about with your presumably well constructed Japanese SUVs.
I reckon it's tens of thousands a year even if all I do is give it a wash every fortnight.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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* people from Coventry.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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paulio, I accept that. But you took a bet that you wouldn't have an accident for which you would not have been at risk had you not taken your car. The insurance company covers its bet by knowing it can hit you in future - or even decline to insure you in future (whether or not you have a protected no-claims bonus).
All this is getting very tedious. I think there is enough information in this thread for us to make our own minds up how we cost our driving. I'm out.
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i have a strange fascination with these threads
"knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing" etc... 
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......my point being that the cost of driving to the Alps is more than just fuel and tolls.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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paulio, sounds like my old Pug. Many £100 to get it past the first MOT  (1 safety recall, 2nd replacement O2 sensor, discs/drums all round, pads/shoes allround due to excessive wear, handbrake cable, 3rd replacement headlight, 2nd radio/cd player, some of which was free or under warranty, some was classified as wear/tear).
edit: oh and thieving scum called the main stealers trying to charge me 2x 15minutes for headlight alignment after changing a bulb (again).
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 9-09-09 15:43; edited 1 time in total
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| ......my point being that the cost of driving to the Alps is more than just fuel and tolls. |
yep, there's the carbon footprint to think about as well
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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andy, maybe it is your old Pug.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Are we factoring in an overnight stop each way? 
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| ......my point being that the cost of driving to the Alps is more than just fuel and tolls. |
I initially read that as "more than just fuel and TROLLS" 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Isn't that sort of the same thing as when one calculates a self-catered holiday total spend and includes the eating and the drinking.
After all, I'd do that anyway - on holiday or not - so it's not really part of the holiday cost. Or is it?
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If your food on holiday costs the same as food at home, it makes sense to leave it out of the calculation altogether (ie the marginal cost of eating on your holiday is nil). Similarly, if you are driving no further or faster on holiday than you would be in the same week at home, then the marginal cost of motoring on your holiday is nil.
That's unlikely though, and in any case you will, of course, find that at the end of the year that you have paid not the marginal cost of anything, but the full cost. But if you absolutely MUST have a car, then spreading the fixed costs across more mileage per year does mean that the marginal cost of the extra mile is a reasonable way of calculating whether you should drive or fly. Extra miles do, obviously, affect depreciation and you should properly take this into account, along with the marginal cost of European breakdown cover over UK breakdown cover. For us, servicing is also significant because we do far more than the 12K between services in 12 months (partly because we only have one car and do 5 return drives to the Alps each year).
I do, incidentally, mentally take into account the fact that when we spend 3 months every winter in the Alps we are saving on gas and electricity in the UK. It's comforting.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You need to do it more than once so your set-up costs can be spread..
One that is done it is the best way to travel, IMV... as you can just tour around and you get to places the TO's just don't go to...
we should have 2 4x4's going down in Jan for our 2 week trip and it will be the cheapest holiday going, IMO..
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Poster: A snowHead
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I can also add in a couple of £00's worth of Harry Potter, Famous Five etc audio CDs to keep the kids quiet.
My handy hint is to use up all your loose change at the coffee machines
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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... and a european road map and/or map upgrade for your tomtom
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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On the credit side of the equation (at least it used to be, before the £ tanked) was all the lovely cheap booze and food you could bring back. Whether stacks of 1666 at throw-away prices, cheap gin, radioactive cheese, stacks of saucisson or a couple of crates of wine, we always look on these as savings. Before any bright spark raises it, we minimise the extra fuel requirement by buying the heavy stuff near to the tunnel on the way back.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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andyph, we buy it on the way out and drink it all while there 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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.... and factor in a set of replacement windscreen wipers when they freeze to the windscreen and you turn them on
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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It does not have to cost anything if you hitch hike . I used to do that 
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The "incidentals" are relatively minor. (though there're other small items left out, such as low temperature oil or anti-freeze which should be used in the Alps, brake wear on mountain driving etc. )
The only "big" item is depreciation. When you eventually sell your car, the milage register on the odometre is directly related to the residual worth of the car. You can do model by model comparison online to check how much that 2000 miles will cost you.
It's not an easy "gestimation". It's a pretty complex factor depending on how new/old the car is and how desirable a particular model is on the used market. As a general guideline, the older the vehicle, the less depreciation due to milage. So driving an old (but mechanically sound) car doesn't really "cost" much. While on the extreme other end of spectrum, an expensive new luxury car loses value just sitting in the garage everyday so might as well make some use out of it.
The "per mile cost" quoted are for average car at average age, which may over or under estimate the true cost of the extra miles for YOUR car. Though it's a good starting point on the "hidden cost" of driving.
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| Quote: |
the milage register on the odometre is directly related to the residual worth of the car. You can do model by model comparison online to check how much that 2000 miles will cost you.
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Oh well - with over 20,000 a year with commuting and holidays I guess our 90K mile car is past hope come trade in time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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we aim to run our cars till they're worth next to nothing - an engine-wise a diesel should do a lot of miles.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Boris wrote: |
| Oh well - with over 20,000 a year with commuting and holidays I guess our 90K mile car is past hope come trade in time. |
Not so with my Camry at 140,000 miles!
The dealer simply plug in the number into a computer and spit out the residual value of the car. I later checked the difference had I driven more or less. It's actually surprisingly close to the average cost-per-mile. Granted, a Toyota runs forever so the high milage is still well inside the "normal" scale.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think taking the car to ski is more expensive than most people think. The extra 2000+ miles each trip to the clock plus more frequent tyre and car changes due to wear and tear, are something we can't measure or cost accurately.
However driving to ski is a different type of skiing holiday than flying to ski. In it you can freely choose any country, any resort, any region and any destination with little regard to the cost printed in the TO brochures.
Why do we ski? Isn't it is something to do with freedom, able to enjoy a stunning environment which iis hostile to the non-skiers, moving from mountains to mountains relying on the right equipment/skill and enjoying exercise/sport in winter outside when most people have to be inside a heated environment to survive? A car is just another piece of equipment for this winter sport.
Having a car is adding freedom to one's skiing. To some that extra bit of freedom is invaluable. In my case the only chance of experiencing a decent collection of European skiing resorts is to drive to the Alps.
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There is also the hidden cost of flying. The damage mrsfatcontroller does to the credit card in fffing duty free (also known as the place you buy shoite when waiting in an enclosed space with fork all else to do) every time we fly.
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You know it makes sense.
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For the first time me and a mate are looking at driving. The 'no boots in hand luggage' rule at some airports, baggage restrictions and charges for skis are making this a viable option. Being able to take as much gear as you need with no drama is a major plus. between 2 of us taking 4 pairs of skis out, alpine and AT boots, avy gear etc. just can't be done any other way now. There is also the chance to take food with you or buy it somewhere cheap to keep costs down.
I'm interested in how much works it works out time-wise too: drive to airport, park car and transfer bus, check in & security, wait at gate, flight, baggage reclaim, immigration, transfer to resort/hire car etc. takes a seriously long time.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Now i used to have a citroen ax, now that would have been cheap to get to the alps. Not comfy but cheap.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citroen_AX
'The car was very economical, largely because of excellent aerodynamics for its class of car (drag coefficient of 0.31) and a very light weight of 640 kg (1,411 lb) for the basic version. This was due to the extensive use of plastic panels in non-load bearing areas and varying the thicknesses of steel in the bodyshell to be the minimum needed to take required loads. This technology came from the PSA Peugeot-Citroën / Renault / French government ECO 2000 project. It also optionally used self coloured plastic bumpers. In 1989 a naturally aspirated diesel AX, using the 1360 cc all aluminium alloy TUD engine, managed a figure of 2.7 litres per 100 kilometres (100 mpg-imp; 87 mpg-US), totalling over 1,000 miles (1,609 km) from Dover to Barcelona. This was the longest ever distance travelled on 10 imp gal (45.5 L; 12.0 US gal) of fuel and earned it a place in the Guinness Book of Records as the most economical production car. '
There problem solved get to the alps and back for the cost of a wham bar
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Poster: A snowHead
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FtS is right. 30-50p a mile at least or you are kidding yourself
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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narc, If you have a smooth run, you can be there/back at similar times to those flying. Counting door to door here.
For us when we go with family friends, we always arrive relaxed and chilled at our own pace, rather than the others who look flustered and harrassed!
I would recommend a Friday night escape and a stay in Ashford or into France a bit if time allows - just makes the next day even easier
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| stoatsbrother wrote: |
| FtS is right. 30-50p a mile at least or you are kidding yourself |
Unless the vehicle is leased and then it isn't a problem.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 10-09-09 8:27; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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30-50p a mile? £600 - £1000 round trip? Hmmmmm sure you aren't kidding yourself to justify flying? I budget £250 - £270 for diesel and tolls, my breakdown cover was free with my SatNav, I don't ever hit the 20K service interval for my car so it is done on the 12 month interval anyway so I think I can justify excluding that cost. It costs me a tenner for my green card for my insurance. Looking at my running costs per mile on the link FtS put up I get the following: -
Tyres 0.79p/mile
Service labour costs 2.79p/mile (I'm excluding these as I would have the service done at the same time anyway)
Replacement parts 2.29p/mile (some of this is wear and tear and some is the cost of service parts so I'll call it 1.8p/mile)
So on top of my budget I need to put £10 (insurance) + £15.80 (tyres) + £18 (replacement parts) = £43.30
add that to my £270 = 313.30 and then divide it by approx 2,000 miles gives me a price per mile of about 15.7p
I have ignored the standing charges as I'm paying them anyway. The only other one to take in to account is depreciation (which is related to car age *and* mileage). Given that I plan to drive my car until it's worth about £3K the cost in depreciation due to mileage is pretty negligible as a £3K car is mostly valued by age (unless it's been to the moon and back). I'm doing about 15K miles a year which is a little over average, at the age I plan on selling my car the value based on whether it is slightly below average mileage or slightly over will make very little difference. I'm not saying this applies to everyone, but in my instance I don't think those miles are doing the value of my car much harm (now if I changed my car every 3 years it might be a bit different).
So 30 - 50p a mile? Please point out the bit where I'm kidding myself
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Oh and surely by doing more miles I am increasing the value of my standing costs by lowering the cost of those per mile. Would it be stretching it to offset the depreciation per mile by the decrease in standing costs per mile?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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TotallyBoard, You are not lowering your standing costs as you have already chosen to ignore them
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TotallyBoard, So you have a car that does 60 mpg on a trip to the Alps, you have a car that has parts that wear out over time rather than by useage, you have a car that is not affected by mileage depreciation, a car that can drive 1000 miles in a day, a car that crosses the channel for free, a car that when it gets old and worth not very much money you will happily service once a year and still drive to the Alps in, a car that doesn't need to carry snow chains, a satnav that has European breakdown and repair cover for life, etc etc.
I have one question: Where can I get one
We run a small fleet of commercial vehicles and they have a safety inspection every 6 weeks. Based on experience I would never allow a car to go 12 months between services/inspections.
It is all irrelevant for me; the only way I would get my family in a car to the Alps would be an overnight ferry to Rotterdam or Zeebrugge and then drive. The cost of the ferry would be 50% more than TotallyBoard's, entire spend. If we were to drive it would add an extra 2 days to our holiday, which is not an option. Last year we skied in Austria for a full day until 4.30 local time and I was showered changed, fed at the excellent Salzburg Airport restaurant, flown home and drove 100 minutes back to my house and was in bed for half past midnight (local time) a busy but relaxing day. I don't mean to wind you up TotallyBoard, but driving is not for us, Perhaps if we lived within a couple of hours of Dover then it would be an option.
Whatever method you choose....have a safe and wonderful trip, and if it works for you then who csres how you do it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Frosty the Snowman,
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I have one question: Where can I get one
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For several years I had a car like that with the added bonus that with careful management a good part of the journey could be done with no fuel cost at all but I did have to pay for the ferry
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Boredsurfing, so did I, but then the benefit was taxed away 
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