 Poster: A snowHead
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1. Ski under control and in such a manner so that you can stop at any time or avoid other skiers or objects.
2. When passing or overtaking another skier you must avoid the skier below you.
3. You should not stop where you obstruct a trail or are not visible from above.
4. When entering a trail or starting a descent yield to other skiers.
5. Check your equipment daily - particularly your release bindings. All skiers must use devices while skiing to help
prevent runaway skis. Runaway skis can be lethal whether on the trial of from falling from an aerial list.
You have a responsibility to your fellow skiers to prevent injury to them.
6. You shall keep off posted trails and posted areas and observe all posted signs.
7. Follow instructions carefully when using ski lifts.
8. Please observe all posted "slow skiing areas".
9. Do not ski slopes too difficult for your ability.
10. Do not jump or perform "aerial" maneuvers. |
Accidents happen, and no one will willingly breach item 3, for example. But to admit to continue willingly to breach rule one by taking blind jumps is admitting to being a criminal, in my opinion.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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manicpb, if you are doing this you are endangering others. As PJSki, points out you are in breach of the skier's code. Grow up !!! It could be your kid that is taken out by someone doing just what you have admitted to.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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manicpb, I think jollyroger, has every right to 'moans and groans'. I doare say you would too, if you had had your shoulder dislocated & ear half pulled off by an inconsiderate boarder
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm 100% certain that the ease with wich people can get on the slopes these days is at least partly to blame, modern carving skis and snowboards are easy to learn to use and people can be out on Red runs within a few days of starting, that does not however mean that they should be, modern practice in teaching seems to be to get people onto the slopes as quickly as possible and that is at least partly to blame, but there is also increasingly in society an I'm allright so blow anyone else attitude.
When I learnt to ski (decades ago) far more time was spent learning control, because if you have control you can go anywhere, now people seem to be more intrested in hurtling down runs as fast as possible and clocking up the most km under their skis/boards that they can. Well I'm old school (more or less) and happy to be so, I go skiing to enjoy the experience of being on the mountain and whilst I can if I must ski fairly fast I'd much rather take the time to enjoy the views and let others hurtle past me, normally I take one holiday a year and I want to relax on it, not see how many km I can do in a day, sadly I fear I'm in the minority 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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manicpb,
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| I'm sorry you feel this way but I love boarding and will continue to ride in a mannor I feel safe without hindering other people. |
Rule 1 and 10 are very clear. Taking blind jumps puts you in breach of these rules. Will you adapt your behaviour accordingly?
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 13-04-09 19:35; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I know it's a long time argument but...when approching a roller you have time to abort if you see your landing is not clear. If that is the case generally people will not jump, myself included.
I was in complete support of the OP about his incident but I don't think the slope HAVE become unsafe it's how they have always been. I hoped his child was not shaken by the event, as I would my familys sibblings, and if it happened how he said I would have been quite aggresive esspecially if the slope user had denied responsability!
My second comment was meant to be sarcastic because I don't belive half the users on snowheads take full respnocabillaty for there actions and will be to quick to blame others.
I can only comment on the situations described on this thread, and again apologise if anyone took offence!
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manicpb, if you can see that your landing area (and a zone you'd slide in if you fell) is clear then I can't see what the problem is. But if anywhere below your intended jump is unsighted you really should avoid the jump altogether.
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And if any one wants to show me how to spell resoncable/responcabillity I would be for ever greatfull! (I fear I have spelt greatfull wrong too!)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Responsibility is great, for which we would would be truly grateful 
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As a reasonably competent boarder, learning to ski (due to young children learning with me) I need to say that I find it very strange that people feel the need to race down blues and greens when quite obviously these are areas that may hold unsure skiiers and boarders. The comments of both manicpb and narc have both left me concerned.
manicpb because of his apparent lack of caring even though he has a young child (it isnt always about you its also about the other people in your environment - surely there are snow parks for jumping etc)
narc because I have been taught that long traverses are a great way of building confidence on steeper slopes and the ability to do this has driven my improvement this year.
I was told about the American piste policing system and I am most impressed. I hope that this is something that starts here soon.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just noticed,. I've posted the wrong code.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Here are the 10 FIS Rules of Conduct:
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1. Respect for others
A skier or snowboarder must behave in such a way that he does not endanger or prejudice others.
2. Control of speed and skiing or snowboarding
A skier or snowboarder must move in control. He must adapt his speed and manner of skiing or snowboarding to his personal ability and to the prevailing conditions of terrain, snow and weather as well as to the density of traffic.
3. Choice of route
A skier or snowboarder coming from behind must choose his route in such a way that he does not endanger skiers or snowboarders ahead.
4. Overtaking
A skier or snowboarder may overtake another skier or snowboarder above or below and to the right or to the left provided that he leaves enough space for the overtaken skier or snowboarder to make any voluntary or involuntary movement.
5. Entering, starting and moving upwards
A skier or snowboarder entering a marked run, starting again after stopping or moving upwards on the slopes must look up and down the slopes that he can do so without endangering himself or others.
6. Stopping on the piste
Unless absolutely necessary, a skier or snowboarder must avoid stopping on the piste in narrow places or where visibility is restricted. After a fall in such a place, a skier or snowboarder must move clear of the piste as soon as possible.
7. Climbing and descending on foot
A skier or snowboarder either climbing or descending on foot must keep to the side of the piste.
8. Respect for signs and markings
A skier or snowboarder must respect all signs and markings.
9. Assistance
At accidents, every skier or snowboarder is duty bound to assist.
10. Identification
Every skier or snowboarder and witness, whether a responsible party or not, must exchange names and addresses following an accident. |
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Spent last well in Les Arcs - in my view there was no more idiotic skiing than there was 15 years ago.
My son was taken out on a very quiet piste by a French lady who mis-timed her turn around him - was a complete accident and she stopped to apologise and check all was ok.
Couple of people who were IMV skiing too fast in beginner areas
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You know it makes sense.
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Boris, I'm seeing many more people skiing at high speed while not in control. No change as far as boarders are concerned, still going too fast into narrow, crowded sections and also jumping and sitting where they shouldn't.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I fear this may become another agument on how the code of conduct is interperted, however I thank PJSki for admiting his mistake and printing the true FIS code. May I point out there is nothing about jumping on piste, however there is a point about stopping out of view. Nothing to do with the OP but I feel as though people were getting at me over these points.
For the last and final time I hope your child is ok and back up on ski's Davidof!
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 13-04-09 20:02; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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manicpb, rule 1 is still pretty clear. Taking blind jumps is criminal.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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not a great thread.... the geezers kid gets knocked over by some random loon and so he joins the Wise After The Event Brigade, just like all the people who lose someone in a road accident and then bang on about reducing the speed limit to 14mph. There is no integrity in that mind set...
Who remembers the 80's? - nothing but insane beginners on 210CM skis cannoning into each other and loving it. I recall standing still in the middle of the piste (as one did) and getting absolutly flattened by some bint, we picked ourselves up, shook ourselves out, re-attached the prosthetic limbs and went for a(nother) beer. Pampered risk-averse cry-babies of today need to remember that Skiing is an Adventure Sport, chock-a-block full of subjective and objective hazards.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Are you sure you allowed to say that red 27?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| red 27 wrote: |
| not a great thread.... the geezers kid gets knocked over by some random loon and so he joins the Wise After The Event Brigade, just like all the people who lose someone in a road accident and then bang on about reducing the speed limit to 14mph. There is no integrity in that mind set... |
The 'geezer' is one of the most experienced skiers in snowHeads. I rate his integrity.
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| Who remembers the 80's? - nothing but insane beginners on 210CM skis cannoning into each other and loving it. |
I remember skiing in the 80s very well - at places like Tignes, Flaine, Les Deux Alpes, Les Arcs, SkiWelt, and the Three Valleys. I do not recall the skiing you describe. And skis over 2 metres were very much in the minority.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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red 27, your description of the 80s is not one I recognise.
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| Pampered risk-averse cry-babies of today need to remember that Skiing is an Adventure Sport |
I see nothing adventurous in being killed by a flying boarder.
Out of interest, do you adhere the FIS code?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I do adhere to it yes.
And I know Davidof has been on here since the year dot and is very experienced, yes. It the logic lacks integrity, not the man - you knew that though as despite playing dumb on this occaision I know you're no fool.
BUT, individual recollections of the 80's notwithstanding, my point stands that this thread is insular and reactive, and it's this type of thinking that has brought in so many of the short-term and restrictive "Elf&Safety" ways of thinking that dogs modern life.
One only has to read 'accident' threads on here to see that they are always 'someone elses fault' No! Often they were an inevitable combination of inherent danger and circumstance that anyone who goes into the mountains should be aware of. It IS an adventure, and that means that things may happen that are outside your control, difficult as that may be to those of us who are used to being Masters of our own little Universe back here in the UK.
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PJSki, I still don't think there is any more stupidity on the piste now than there was.
I know I am a damm site more aware of others and potential threats skiing with 3 young children though. But I am also more aware of danger everywhere when I'm with my kids as well.
Going one step further I would say I no longer take risks that I once thought acceptable now I have kids - eg driving quickly, defending short-corners in hockey!
What's my point - that my perception has changed, not the actual level of risk
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| manicpb, sorry, but you sound like a a complete twerp. |
That is ridiculously over-polite.
If what he says about his activities is correct, then one day, his stupidity is going to result in somebody being seriously injured or dead. And probably not just himself.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| manicpb wrote: |
I can't belive my comments were took so offensive, I do apologise!
I have never had a major accident in 15 years of boarding and as I say I (along with my family with much less slope experiance) I look after a 5 year old almost single handed. I'm 28, no council estate thug, and proud of working hard for my one holiday each year which happens to be in the Alps.
As I said Davidof's situation sounded very similar to my annual holiday but I did'nt agree with Jolly rogers moans and groans. If I have had a minor accident (mine or others fault) I have always removed my board and returned to the accident to check all are ok.
I'm sorry you feel this way but I love boarding and will continue to ride in a mannor I feel safe without hindering other people.
Hope my point is understood and taken on board (no pun intended). |
What you described in your previous post may be a manner you "feel safe", but it is certainly not a manner which is safe.
And you admitted in that post that you have had a "number of close calls". One of those would have been sufficient to wake most people up to the stupidity of what they are doing. One day it won't be a "close call", it will be a collision, very possibly resulting in serious injury.
It really is quite simple. If you can't see, for certain, that your entire flight path and landing are clear, and you have no "spotter" to tell you it is clear, then you don't make the jump.
The fact you haven't had a major accident, if you really take blind jumps (on any runs, never mind blue ones), is down to blind luck, not skill.
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Full of sympathy for Davidof and his young son - we skied with our four year old grand-daughter for the first time at Christmas and New Year this year when she was not with ESF and you certainly needed eyes in all directions then to fend off trouble.
What has been worrying me though is the number of parents I see with small children letting them launch themselves off downhill, straight down, not looking up behind them, saying 'yeh, go for it etc etc', allowing them to go off the side of the piste and then jump back on, with no appreciation of anyone already on the piste - as if just getting from top to bottom in the fastest time makes them 'a really good boy/girl'. I just hope that these parents do at some point try to instill a bit of discipline, piste etiquette and all that sort of thing - if they know it themselves.
And as for the child we saw at Chatel the other day, all kitted out thankfully with helmet on its head - but did it really need the orange dummy in its mouth - old enough to ski but not old enough to do without the dummy???
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
| Pampered risk-averse cry-babies of today need to remember that Skiing is an Adventure Sport |
davidof hardly fits the description of a risk-averse cry-baby. If I was risk-averse I wouldn't have gone skiing in the first place, and certainly wouldn't be going skiing next week just 14 weeks after my nearest and dearest broke his neck. We are well aware that skiing is an adventure sport, but that doesn't take away our responsibility to have respect for others on the slopes who may be smaller or less experienced than ourselves.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| manicpb wrote: |
I fear this may become another agument on how the code of conduct is interperted, however I thank PJSki for admiting his mistake and printing the true FIS code. May I point out there is nothing about jumping on piste, however there is a point about stopping out of view. Nothing to do with the OP but I feel as though people were getting at me over these points.
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People are getting at you because the way you have described yourself acting is dangerous to others. There may be no specific reference to jumping on-piste, and indeed there is nothing inherently wrong with jumping on-piste.
But point 1 says:
| Quote: |
1. Respect for others
A skier or snowboarder must behave in such a way that he does not endanger or prejudice others. |
And if you are jumping when you do not know for certain your entire fllight path and landing are clear, you certainly are endangering others.
And you comment about "odd close call with skiers stood just out of eye level" suggests that is exactly what you have been doing. Your later comment "when approching a roller you have time to abort if you see your landing is not clear. If that is the case generally people will not jump, myself included" rather contradicts this, but is simply not true with many rollers. If you are going to hit it fast enough to take a good jump, then you don't have time to abort by the point where you can see if it is clear.
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| davidof wrote: |
| With the introduction of fast ski lifts, modern ski and snowboard gear and equipment like helmets and back protectors you seem to get slopes full of Robocop clad loons honing around the place without a thought for other slope users. |
That's just the 'look'. It's the introduction of large numbers of unskilled yoofs on the slopes, usually in packs showing off to each other, that's increasing the danger. Back in the 80s, the equivalent yoofs of the day simply couldn't afford to go skiing.
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You know it makes sense.
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Just got back online from watching the Moto GP...dangerous stuff that should be banned!
You all take the bait to easy, there have always been people like me who is a danger to other piste users (although anyone who ski's or boards with me might say different) which is what the title of this thread asked. Anyone got an actual opinion on what the OP asked or are we all going to go over ther code of conduct for the umpteenth time?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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moffatross, On his way back to Club Med for lunch I guess 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| manicpb wrote: |
| You all take the bait to easy, there have always been people like me who is a danger to other piste users |
You sound quite proud of that... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| manicpb wrote: |
| You all take the bait to easy, there have always been people like me who is a danger to other piste users |
You sound quite proud of that... |
Indeed. Eventually his luck will run out. Whose loved one will he kill or seriously injure due to his foolishness? Maybe one of his own. Either way, a bitter price to pay.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| manicpb wrote: |
I do think many threads become a witch hunt on here, I never pin pointed out anyone apart from saying JollyRodger may have had a part in his own accident and from there on in I've been told I'm going to kill someone to being a twerp!
Still a differance in opinion makes the world go round! |
It is nothing whatsoever to do with whether you "pinpointed" anyone, nor indeed anything to do with anything you have said about others.
You have been told that purely based on your description of how you ski/board.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ok, i'll hold my hands up on pinpointing myself out. However I have just reread all posts and only see the issue of jumping over rollers for anyone to get on. I was originally taught freestyle by the much respected Neil McNab on the rollers in Chamonix and have then only done the same as 10's to 100's of boarders mostly seasonairres (which I take alot on here are) that I have boarded with. I'm not going to stop boarding the way I ride because you lot don't think it's safe.
I look forward to you all changing the mountain laws and my banning order from snowheads soon!
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manicpb, so you can't see that taking blind jumps is dangerous?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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manicpb,re: everything you have said... i,m with you buddy..
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snowpatrol, so you take blind jumps too, do you? What will happen when you eventually hit someone?
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FAQ
I've had to shout at, try to hit, point my sticks at any number of peeps and it's only Monday. 
