 Poster: A snowHead
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| Car rental co-exists with car selling (although this industry also seems to be in crisis at the moment). People buy or rent houses (although this industry also seems to be in crisis at the moment). |
Personally, I don't think that either of those markets is directly analogous to the ski rental market. DVD rental is probably much closer.
The issue that the ski manufacturers seem to have is that they've snookered themselves into passing too much of the profitability into the retail end of the supply chain. Whilst there's a differentiation between retail and rental skis (and presumably an associated premium) - if a shop can earn the cost of a pair of skis back in 3 weeks rental then there's clearly no incentive for them to push the sale of skis. I've certainly noticed that the ski shops in Morzine seem to have fewer and fewer skis for sale.
In the DVD market the film distribution companies sell products that are clearly differentiated between the retail and rental markets and licensed as such. So, Blockbusters will have two copies of a film - a retail version that they buy for £7 and sell for £14, but are not allowed to rent out - and a rental version that they buy for £40; rent out at £4 a go and then sell for £5. IIRC the model is built on the premise that Blockbusters get the same overall rate of return - so if they pay £40 then it's estimated that they'll make £80 back for the outlay. All this ensure that the film distribution companies attract the additional profitability from rentals back to themselves and don't allow Blockbusters to buy the retail version for £7 and make £80 out of it.
The challenge for the ski companies has to be how they attract that profit back to themselves.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| queen bodecia wrote: |
| Interesting. I don't think many TOs offer Galtur so choice might be limited, but certainly worth a look in future. Ta... |
Neilson go to Galtur.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The answer is easy: manufacturers should charge the ski shops more.
However, it appears that the ski market is saturated with too many manufacturers chasing too few sales. Hence their margins are driven down to the point where they are negative...
The forthcoming recession will solve these problems.
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Lot of tosh from the ski companies...
Skis are a very discretionary spend, most people who would buy them already own a pair (or two, or three) already and are looking to update/upgrade.
The economy is is the crapper and people are just putting that discretionary spend on hold.
I'd strongly bet that rentals are not up this year, they are probably down too, but retail sales are down more.
I should know.....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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if it costs 50 quid to ship your skis to the resort then u will pay 70 to hire a set.. the standard of hire skis in a lot of resorts now is excellent for the average punter..
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| Fattes13 wrote: |
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Sorry - just realised it was a 9yrs old for 5 nights, not the other way round... in that case the price is only 70E (sorry, don't want to upset you - but even if you missed out this year its worth knowing for next year as the free kit is for up to 10yrs olds).
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This is great marketing because very few adults and teenagers will book boards together! Its normally parents on skis and kids on boards. But as boarders get older I am sure this will change  as the average age of boarders gets higher and they are more likley to have kids boarding with them as opposed to old ski fogies bringing their cool kids boarding
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Actually its not - if the adults hire skis the kids (up to 10) get free boarding kit and vice versa - free skis for the kids if the adult books a board.
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The ski industry sounds unsophisticated, backward and slow-moving.
They should've been building skis in low-cost Asia and buying up super-profitable rental-shops over a decade ago.
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FlyingStantoni, whereas the ski mfrs sell (f'rinstance) a high end ski retail for ~€1,200 with shoe clips and to the ski shops for ~€300...
Entirely the wrong way around!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Whitegold, I think they have been doing the former for quite a few years, (based on a conversation with the guy from Elan at the EOSB) maybe 10 or more. The latter may be difficult as many 'prime locations' are under the control of family cartels / mega ski hire chains.
Just a thought but why doesn't someone start a 'book via the internet, skis delivered to your hotel' service?
You arrive at your Hotel/chalet and the ski tech fits the skis to your boots, sets the din and drives off (in his ski filled Van) to the next booking.
No shop, no rent, cheap out of resort storage facility, van/driver tech all that's required. Start in the mega resorts and if it pays spread to others. Gotta be worth a try, probably only need a couple of £100k to set it up - peanuts to the likes of Rossignol etc.
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Axsman, Probably only stopped by the cost of replacing slashed tyres at over-priced french garages owned by the family of the resort Mayor - I guess.
Ski Republic took a few bricks to their windows didn't they?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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stoatsbrother, Easily sorted by bung to said Mayor and Family. (cost of doing business, tax deductable)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Nice one, Axsman, arrange a concession with a local rental shop to avoid er, anti-competitive behaviour, charge a little to the TO for the service, take a margin from the rental shop... you could have something there.
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Axsman, Isn't free enterprise wonderful? 
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You know it makes sense.
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Ski valet is done and certainly is seen a lot in US destination resorts. The difficulty in the Euro business model is that everyone would want their kit in the space of a few hours on changeover day, co-incidently the worst day to be driving to your out of town facility to replenish, park etc. Plus the local cartel behaviour to deal with of course.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Ski valet is done and certainly is seen a lot in US destination resorts. The difficulty in the Euro business model is that everyone would want their kit in the space of a few hours on changeover day, co-incidently the worst day to be driving to your out of town facility to replenish, park etc. Plus the local cartel behaviour to deal with of course. |
And don't forget that in the US, the on mountain rentals are generally owned by the ski resort itself, not by "influential families". Are these ski valet services run through the resort or by independent parties?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Axsman,
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Just a thought but why doesn't someone start a 'book via the internet, skis delivered to your hotel' service?
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Someone did...actually it was pre-internet, but for one season in the late 80s there was a service where you could get fitted out in London at various ski/sports shops, and you'd find identical kit waiting for you at your chalet when you arrived (I think it was only available for the 3V). I used it once in Meribel - brilliant service, with a set of brand new skis. But it didn't last more than one season....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| CANV CANVINGTON wrote: |
| if it costs 50 quid to ship your skis to the resort then u will pay 70 to hire a set.. the standard of hire skis in a lot of resorts now is excellent for the average punter.. |
The average punter will just hire skis anyway, regardless of shipping costs. It's only people who ski more than the odd week who ever buy skis in the first place. These skiers will always be motivated to own their own skis (even if they also rent skis when it suits). The only question mark is how often will they buy new skis? I would suggest at the first sign of hard times, new skis are one of the first luxuries to get put on hold.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Axsman wrote: |
Just a thought but why doesn't someone start a 'book via the internet, skis delivered to your hotel' service?
You arrive at your Hotel/chalet and the ski tech fits the skis to your boots, sets the din and drives off (in his ski filled Van) to the next booking.
No shop, no rent, cheap out of resort storage facility, van/driver tech all that's required. Start in the mega resorts and if it pays spread to others. Gotta be worth a try, probably only need a couple of £100k to set it up - peanuts to the likes of Rossignol etc. |
I'm going to steal your idea and claim it as my own, the way I see it you would only work nights 
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| CANV CANVINGTON wrote: |
| if it costs 50 quid to ship your skis to the resort then u will pay 70 to hire a set.. the standard of hire skis in a lot of resorts now is excellent for the average punter.. |
Where does £50 come from ? It's only ever cost me £0, £15 or £20 for a return trip. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The hassle and cost of transporting skis on the plane is probably my main reason for not owning my own skis.
However the clincher would be if I knew that I could hire the skis I wanted in the resort that I was going, in Meribel I found Freeride to be excellent, however in other resorts I could spend longer looking for a good hire shop as having them fitted to my (owned) boots.
Two other reasons to hire are that you don't groan when you run over a rock in quite the same way, and that you can match skis to developing skills.
So on that basis my head says carry on hiring, my heart says buy!
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| Quote: |
CANV CANVINGTON wrote:
if it costs 50 quid to ship your skis to the resort then u will pay 70 to hire a set.. the standard of hire skis in a lot of resorts now is excellent for the average punter..
Where does £50 come from ? It's only ever cost me £0, £15 or £20 for a return trip.
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Latest EasyJet rates are £33 return, Ryanair £57.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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OK so it works in the US, lets get it going in Europe. 
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Axsman, I'd like to volunteer as the man on the ground.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Axsman, how far from Footworks will you be staying, then?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skisimon, comprex, If we build it, they will come
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beequin,
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Latest EasyJet rates are £33 return, Ryanair £57.
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And Lufthansa is free plus a 20kg allowance.
There are two Interports shops in Ischgl both run by the Mathoy family. Their price this year for a VIP pair of skis for six days (but with a very generous offer of a seventh day thrown in free  ) is a mind boggling €153 plus insurance if you want it. You woudn't have to pay those sort of prices too often before you thought about buying your own.
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You know it makes sense.
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| CANV CANVINGTON wrote: |
| if it costs 50 quid to ship your skis to the resort then u will pay 70 to hire a set.. the standard of hire skis in a lot of resorts now is excellent for the average punter.. |
It doesn't often cost that much though.
Some of the budget airlines are charging that much, I don't think any of the big name ones are.
And TO's are generally less than that (TUI group are £30 if pre-booked, Thomas Cook are £15 if pre booked).
Given that when I travel in three weeks, the carriage will have cost £15 (Neilson), and I expect to arrive in resort in time to get a couple of hours skiing on the Saturday, they would have to be giving away the rental skis to be worthwhile for me on this trip.
I would have thought the current exchange rate situation would actually have meant more British people buying their own skis, as rental becomes relatively more expensive.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Drive to the Alps it is less hassle than going catttle class and there is no charge (except for increased fuel economy) for taking your own kit. Another point does anyone actually pay full retail price for there skis !!. Not me I go to Xscape or CFe at the end of the season and buy new skis that I have requested to demo (so strictly speaking they are not new) at half price, done this a few times and always got them at half price, makes sense to me.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Kel wrote: |
| Drive to the Alps it is less hassle than going catttle class |
Maybe, just about, if you live within an hour or so of a channel port. Although even then, it is usually going to take longer door to door.
But if you are going solo or with only one other person, it will almost certainly cost considerably more than enough extra to absorb and "savings" in ski carriage.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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"the number of pairs of skis sold annually has more than halved in the past 15 years to 3.5 million.
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Many skiers have switched to snowboards, whose annual sales are now about 1.3 million units."
Hello???
Since beginers don't buy equipment, I bet more than 1.3 million of skiers has been replaced by snowboarders!
I think the analogy shouldn't be with the music industry or what not, it's more like TV vs. the internet. Part of the customer base is taking up another hobby (skiing -> snowboard or TV -> internet). Blaming rental for the lost of sale is totally off-base.
What they (ski makers) need to do is not to buy up ski rental shops. They should be buying up snowboarding manufacturers!!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| alex_heney wrote: |
| Kel wrote: |
| Drive to the Alps it is less hassle than going catttle class |
Maybe, just about, if you live within an hour or so of a channel port. Although even then, it is usually going to take longer door to door.
But if you are going solo or with only one other person, it will almost certainly cost considerably more than enough extra to absorb and "savings" in ski carriage. |
Agree I travel from the North west (4 hours to Folkestone on a quiet Sat Am and thats shifting) factor in overnight stops in France and you really need a decent car with 4 people to make it viable cost-wise. Given all this it is still less hassle than tour operator cattle class.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Kel wrote: |
| alex_heney wrote: |
| Kel wrote: |
| Drive to the Alps it is less hassle than going catttle class |
Maybe, just about, if you live within an hour or so of a channel port. Although even then, it is usually going to take longer door to door.
But if you are going solo or with only one other person, it will almost certainly cost considerably more than enough extra to absorb and "savings" in ski carriage. |
Agree I travel from the North west (4 hours to Folkestone on a quiet Sat Am and thats shifting) factor in overnight stops in France and you really need a decent car with 4 people to make it viable cost-wise. Given all this it is still less hassle than tour operator cattle class. |
Obviously, we all have preferences, and yours differs from mine here.
Although I enjoy driving, a total of at least 15 hours is just too much hassle (for me) when compared to a total of about 8 hours, while able to read a book or watch the scenery for most of it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I rented skis for a day in St Anton, and was absolutely staggered by the prices: platinum skis (e.g. the Head iSLs I hired) for 1 day €40!!!! Even taking their 7 days for 6 deal it's still €178. (Prices listed at Sport Alber, but Jennewein and Intersport were pretty much the same price). For those prices you can buy a pair from somewhere like Sport Conrad for little more than two week's rental. OK so this is probably at the upper end of the rental market, but even with airline carriage charges (with the possible exception of "Ruinair", and I avoid them like the plague) it's a nobrainer to have your own skis with those kinds of prices.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I tell you what....
I will ask the exports mamager at Atomic tonight (and maybe the warehouse manager too).
I'm sure they would argue that sales for them are still sales whether for rental or purchase!
I teach English to the company's logistics dept - in fact I think there may be a 'lesson' disguised in this thread!
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Corky,
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beequin, Quote:
Latest EasyJet rates are £33 return, Ryanair £57.
And Lufthansa is free plus a 20kg allowance.
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Yes, BA too. But I can fly Ryanair or Easyjet to resort X for £50-£70 return inclusive and BA will cost me £150.
However, as we have skis in the cellar in France I should obviously consider hiring them out with the apartment.
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skimom, Unfortunately we didn't pre-book and there appeared to be a dire shortage of boards for little'uns, maybe a small 9 year old's board is not a common requirement. Anyways, we did have to try 5 shops before we could get one to fit. It was a Burton but I don't know if that is good or not?
I will definately be pre-booking next year!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We hired in Pedraces last week. For boots & skis of a very good intermediate standard the cost was about €100 for 6 days. The equipment was in superb condition and the service effiecient and cheeful.
They kitted out about 35 of our group and ALL were very impressed.
The shop was http://www.skitop.it
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Used to rent but it became too much hassle when the choice of ski was poorer .. which was getting more and more common as I wanted to avoid the big French resorts.
Not saying that big french resorts are very good for hiring skis..just that there are more shops.
Last year for Prem/VIP skis, I'd be paying close to £100 per week and this year would be worse with the exchange rate.
I mainly bought my skis as I knew what I wanted from the ski set-up... and the saving on them was a bonus..
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FAQ
