 Poster: A snowHead
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The thread started with a question about Saas Fee, but appears to now encompass rescues in France too.
I do have (second hand - it was my wife who was hurt, 7 years ago) experience of a rescue in France - were were skiing at Samoens and she fell close to a lift; the lifty called the patrol who took her up to the base station on a stretcher behind a skidoo, where she got initial assessment and then an ambulance was called to take her down to the village. We were definitely not asked to pay for the initial piste rescue, although I have a vague recollection that I was asked to pay for the ambulance when we got to the village (and they took Visa!). I think I did have to pay for the plaster, crutches and drugs up front (again I may be wrong and the awful memories of Geneva Airport have overshadowed that - they wouldn't let her use crutches to go through the metal detector, but weren't interested in the 8 syringes in my hand luggage!).
We got a bill from the commune a while later for the rescue to the road, which we sent to the insurer and which they agreed to settle direct, but weren't in a hurry to do so - that took months of increasingly threatening letters from the commune (prosecution, seizure of property etc). I am pretty certain that I hadn't bought insurance at the ticket office, because we had winter sports cover on our annual policy.
I would conclude that what happens to you probably depends on where you are, when, and how various people feel on the day. I do always carry a credit card on the slopes as well as a cashpoint card. And I am sure the whole experience is very different if you are on your own.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My take in all this is that CN is not a rip off because its benefits are publicised on web site etc and anyone is free to buy it or not. I buy it not because I don't think my travel insurance covers a rescue but because I do not want the unpleasant situation of me or Mrs Trenmold being injured while skiing made worse by the hassle of worrying about paying for things there and then.
If you don't want it, don't buy it - I can't really see what there is to argue about!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Trenmold wrote: |
| ........ I can't really see what there is to argue about! |
It's an alternative to helmets.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Trenmold wrote:
........ I can't really see what there is to argue about!
It's an alternative to helmets.
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achilles,
Yeah sorry I forgot where I was for a moment, this is  after all!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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JDC,
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Got to say Carre Neige isnt an issue for 99% of the people Ive skied with because theyve never heard of it.
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I hadn't heard of it before joining snowHeads. Just one of many bits of advice on snowHeads which have caused me to spend more money than I might otherwise have done! (Footbeds, merino base layers, etc etc, hadn't heard of any of them in my former life!) 
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James the Last, yup - once again sorry to have misread your posts earlier. 
Regarding the HSBC insurance - could be OK for you. I ski without a guide off-piste from time to time - so not OK for me. Hadn't thought about 'consider to be safe' - bit of a minefield, I suppose - as is all insurance relating to off-piste skiing.
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Thanks. As I have no transceiver, shovel, rope, etc. etc. etc., I am not going to be going anywhere I shouldn't.
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| 99% of the people Ive skied with because theyve never heard of it. |
It's for sale at the kiosks and can be quite difficult to avoid...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| richmond wrote: |
| Is there an equivalent to Carte Neige (I mean the weekly, rather than season, policy) in Austria? |
I don't know of anything like that (but have never inquired about it). It might be best to contact the lift company in the area you are going to, to find out if there are any local arrangements possible.
In all we have discussed in this thread, we have concentrated on costs for care and recovery of an injured skier. I think it's worth saying again that third party liability cover is probably even more important; costs arising from liability could be really crippling.
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| richmond wrote: |
| Is there an equivalent to Carte Neige (I mean the weekly, rather than season, policy) in Austria? |
Carte neige covers you for winter sports activities in France and neighbouring countries.
On the other hand, I doubt they'll have heard of it. I look forward to waving my carre neige on the slopes of Yad Moss...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| espri wrote: |
| richmond wrote: |
| Is there an equivalent to Carte Neige (I mean the weekly, rather than season, policy) in Austria? |
I don't know of anything like that (but have never inquired about it). It might be best to contact the lift company in the area you are going to, to find out if there are any local arrangements possible.
In all we have discussed in this thread, we have concentrated on costs for care and recovery of an injured skier. I think it's worth saying again that third party liability cover is probably even more important; costs arising from liability could be really crippling. |
Apart from the initial query about whether helicopter rescue was covered, most of the discussion hasn't really been about whether we are covered or not, but arther about whether we might have to find the money instantly at the worst time.
I don;t think you will find any travel insurance policy that doesn't give several million in third party cover.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Is there an equivalent to Carte Neige (I mean the weekly, rather than season, policy) in Austria?
Carte neige covers you for winter sports activities in France and neighbouring countries.
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That would suggest Austria is not covered (but Andorra, Spain, Switzerland, Italy and Germany are).
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Ooooooopsie daisies. I'd forgotten the Anschluss had been reversed...
& the UK, presumably. & if so, Eire?
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You know it makes sense.
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Right. I'm really bored with all this garbage.
1. If you are injured on piste, the secouristes will remove you to the nearest medical centre. They may take your details, but there will be no argument. What the F do you think their job is all about?
2. If you require further ambulance transport, this will be carried out by a private ambulance company unrelated to piste rescue. They will ask for payment/insurance guarantees. They will accept a guarantee by fax from your insurer's assistance company. What did you think your insurance was there for if not to cover these eventualities? Yes, it is up to you/your rep/your mates or family members to arrange this.
3. Any hospital treatment required will also be covered by a combination of your travel insurance and the NHS. You will be asked for your EHIC and insurance details. If you are unable to provide these on the spot (as is highly likely), emergency treatment will under no circumstances be refused. Where do you think you are, the bloody Congo?
Get a grip, really. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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the Doctors are likely to tell you to put your medication up your butt
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Isn't that supposed to be an efficient method of delivering medication without risking damage to the stomach? I have no experience of being required to put things up that particular orifice, wouldn't presume to comment. Or even contemplate the matter, frankly. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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thanks everybody for all the information, particularly the stuff concerning switzerland where I will be skiing with my family.
I think it seems that if you are a EU citizen you get the standard no frills reciprocal medical rights in the case of an accident, but this does not cover you for any cost incurred by being evacuated off the mountain, so this can be covered by payment on the day at the lift pass office.
If you have all frills holiday ski insurance you are covered for evacuation off the mountain, but they may be incidences when proof of this is required.
on a personal note I used to be a member of a UK mountain rescue team and our only concern was for the welfare and safety of the casualty, and I am sure that for the vast majority of the European rescue personnel it is the same. The only difference is our rescue system is manned by volunteers and is completely free (but that could be another topic)
Thanks again
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| ......... Where do you think you are, the bloody Congo? |
Hmm. At Alpe D'Huez when I ruptured my achilles tendon, I reported on my own to the local doctors. My ankle was set in a cast. I was instructed not to put any weight on it, given a note for the specialist, given some prescriptions and abandoned by the doctor. I realised that was it so I hopped to reception quite a way with no crutches. IIRC I was not allowed to use the practice phone to call for help, so I asked if I could use my mobile phone. I was told only outside, so, again without crutches, I hoped to the door, opened it, and phoned my Crystal chalet hotel for help. The staff there were brilliant - and sent to strong lads to carry me a bit like rugby props carrying a hooker to the local ATM, where I got cash to pay for my prescriptions. They then carried me back hopping to the hotel, and got my prescriptions including the crutches. When the insurance company wanted details faxed to them, the practice was most reluctant to do so.
Congo? I guess not. But a long way sort of what a Western European country should be offering visitors.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rayscoops, if you lose your pass you can get a replacement from the ticket office on presentation of your receipt without the need to mess about with insurance companies at all.
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I don't but the extra CN either, and these threads always throw up differing stories. I find it hard to believe that a helpicoter will come and land to collect you and expect €1000+ in CASH before taking you off the mountain. I find it hard to believe that any ambulance driver will insist on CASH before taking a critically ill person to hospital. Maybe I have too much faith in human decency, but I just can't see it. If a credit card can be used - you can then later try to sort on insurance. Worst case scernario is you have an expensive credit card bill to sort on your return. I am in France in a few weeks and will ask some of the locals I know.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, I think that Switzerland recognizes the EHIC.
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Yellow Pyranha, hadn't read this page before hitting reply. Your post makes me sure I wont bother.... Samoens is where we ski.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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stevo_the_saddler, I agree that it seems unlikely you would be refused treatment, and Lizzard, who works in France also agrees with you. And enjoy Samoens - I've been there in Summer more than Winter, but is is a nice wee place.
I've never used Carre Neige, so I don't know, but I doubt very much that it would include any repatriation costs, such as an extra seat on the plane, nursing help (depending on your injury) all of which would normally be covered if skiing within the restrictions on a UK policy. And you couldn't get around that with a non-Winter Sports policy plus CN, because any ski-related incidents would still not be covered.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Yellow Pyranha, We have a place in samoens - it is wonderful at any time of year!
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
I think it seems that if you are a EU citizen you get the standard no frills reciprocal medical rights in the case of an accident, but this does not cover you for any cost incurred by being evacuated off the mountain, so this can be covered by payment on the day at the lift pass office.
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But being an EU citizen is presumably irrelevant in Switzerland?
Also, the EHIC, as I understand it, entitles you to the same "standard no frills" medical treatment as a citizen of the country you are in would get free, NOT necessarily what you'd get in the UK. Relying on combination of EHIC and CN (to avoid paying for a UK based travel insurance) will leave some gaps, though I wouldn't be too sure of what they are. 
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Cost of repatriation if you need more than a standard aeroplane seat, for one thing.
Also of course, other things normally covered by standard travel insurance such as lost luggage - although those things are generally irrelevant to what happens when you are injured, if that is all that is being talked of here.
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You know it makes sense.
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stevo_the_saddler, having been injured on the French slopes a couple of times over the years, I'm afraid I have a very poor impression of the medical services' regard of patient care. My guess is that you would not have to pay for a helicopter up front. But I have seen a paramedic checking insurance details first before calling one up. Spookily, I'd been laughed at earlier by some of my party for saying we must carry insurance details/cards with us whilst we were skiing. They had had a touching faith in French medical care, too - but their faith was misplaced. Surprising, really in country where so much else is good, and the courtesy with which the French have displayed to me in other matters. I am surprised the French medical system is considered better than ours by many commentators. As far as I can see, in GP practice and ambulance services at least, it is not.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 30-01-09 10:21; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| stevo_the_saddler wrote: |
| I don't but the extra CN either, and these threads always throw up differing stories. I find it hard to believe that a helpicoter will come and land to collect you and expect €1000+ in CASH before taking you off the mountain. I find it hard to believe that any ambulance driver will insist on CASH before taking a critically ill person to hospital. Maybe I have too much faith in human decency, but I just can't see it. If a credit card can be used - you can then later try to sort on insurance. Worst case scernario is you have an expensive credit card bill to sort on your return. I am in France in a few weeks and will ask some of the locals I know. |
I don't think there is ever any question about asking for payment before getting you off the mountain.
And I think you are almost certainly right about ambulances and critcally injured people.
Most of the claims of them demanding cash have been for situations where the injured person may be in a lot of pain, but are not in any danger, so cannot really be described as critically injured. And you may have too much faith in human decency to believe even that would happen, but there are posts on here from people to whom it has happened.
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Poster: A snowHead
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alex_heney, Fair enough - but there are posts from those that haven't. I hate insurance rip-offs and the fact that they double up on things which are already covered. My greatest bug-bear has to be extended warranties - but thats a whle new thread.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Insurance certificate/card
What is one of those? I have a telephone number for my health insurance, and nothing else. I guess I could knock up a fancy certificate with photoshop...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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James the Last, telephone number + policy number should do - if you have your phone on you when the accident happens, and are in a fit state to phone! (Most insurance policies, of whatever sort, come with a 'Certificate of Insurance' and I do take a copy on holiday - but not up the hill, just telno/policy no, EHIC card & Carre Neige receipts. And a Visa card!  )
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Our recent (Christmas Day) experience of Swiss (Zermatt) piste rescue was as follows:
My wife fell and dislocated her shoulder (for the second time). A passing ski school stopped and phoned the piste rescue and after about 15 mins a secouriste arrived. Lamost his first question was "Are you insured?" To which I responded "Yes." He then suggested taking her off the slope using a helicopter, but, anticipating that the insurance company might just object as this was a second event (though we had been told that she was at no increased risk) I suggested to him that he might take her down on his sledge to a not-very-distant mountain railway stop (Riffelberg). Evacuation then proceeded swiftly - for which I paid CH250 cash at the bottom train station. I then paid a further CH250 cash to the ambulance man for an 800m trip to the Doctor's surgery followed by the medical expenses (>CHF1000) paid by plastic.
I subsequently learnt two things:
Helicopter evacuation could have cost as much as CHF9000
Zermatt (I don't know if this applies to other Swiss resorts) has a system similar to Carre Neige - but since I had bought our lift passes through the TO, I hadn't been offered it>
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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One thing which I read frequently here about CN, is that its only a few €. But in Les Arcs it is €2.70 a day - for the 5 of us for a week that's €81.
I didn't pay a lot more than that for a years cover
Isn't there also a risk that your standard insurance will then use you having CN as an excuse not to pay up for anything else - most policies won't cover anything if there is another policy in place
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Boris wrote: |
One thing which I read frequently here about CN, is that its only a few €. But in Les Arcs it is €2.70 a day - for the 5 of us for a week that's €81.
I didn't pay a lot more than that for a years cover
Isn't there also a risk that your standard insurance will then use you having CN as an excuse not to pay up for anything else - most policies won't cover anything if there is another policy in place |
I have never come across such a policy.
Most policies will not cover things more specifically insutred under another policy.
And where two policies both cover the same things in a generauic way, they usually each pay outa proportion of the total costs.
But I heve never heard of a policy which won't meet the costs of the events they insure against because another policy covers a different part of the costs of that event.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| alex_heney wrote: |
[Most policies will not cover things more specifically insutred under another policy.
And where two policies both cover the same things in a generauic way, they usually each pay outa proportion of the total costs.
But I heve never heard of a policy which won't meet the costs of the events they insure against because another policy covers a different part of the costs of that event. |
Your second point (in the affirmative!) is the corollary of the first. And when you are dealing with two insurance companies in two different jurisdictions.... scary. Best not to mention CN to your UK insurer.
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James the Last,
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Best not to mention CN to your UK insurer
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If I remember rightly, a contract of insurance is one of 'utmost faith' and such non-disclosure could invalidate the policy. Ugh, insurance law=minefield.
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FAQ
