 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Lizzard wrote: |
espri, I didn't say it was biased, I said it was badly written.
I've just read it again, and I revise my opinion - it's abysmal. |
agree but I think it has been written that way deliberately... the site's using language translation software (click country flags top right) and I'm guessing that the punchy style is to help make the resulting translations read better. All matters not because I can't imagine the site gets very much traffic.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The story was big new in Theuringen where I spend a lot of my time, Dieter Althaus is the state president and it was him in this skiing accident. It's because of his status that it's such big news. This article http://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/650/453342/text/ in the Suedeutssche (if you read German) is more pragmatic and sensible after the initial "helmet" hype.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think we (inc me) have been a bit hard on ben.clatworthy, who I believe is a 16 year old aspirant racer and journalist. He wasn't to know that his first post was on such a frequently discussed "touchy" subject. Good luck in achieving both and I hope you aren't put off visiting snowheads.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Colin B, perhaps we've been hard - but hopefully Ben has learnt to research his audience and the subject matter thoroughly before making strong claims.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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It appears quite plain to me that the overall risk of suffering a head injury whilst skiing is low, so wearing a helmet should be a personal choice. The FIS has decreed that all racers must wear a helmet for no apparent reason - does anyone remember a slalom skier suffering a fractured skull?
Having said that, I would never ride a horse or motorbike without a lid but I don't wear one on a bicycle.
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| Quote: |
The FIS has decreed that all racers must wear a helmet for no apparent reason - does anyone remember a slalom skier suffering a fractured skull?
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Slalom skiers frequently collide with gate poles and faster races can easily result in head hitting icy piste, so I have no quibbles with this rule at all.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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beequin, Stenmark used to hit wooden poles with less padding than is used now and he wore a bobble hat. Like I said, there is no apparent reason for slalom skiers to wear helmets - do you remember one getting a fractured skull?
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Gordyjh, I've had a pole in the eye and there was concern that I'd fractured my eye-socket. Irrespective of whether any slalom racers have had fractured skulls, getting a pole in the face f****** hurts - even at the speeds I go. Anyone willingly racing down a slalom course (and as other disciplines are faster, it would apply in their case even more) without a helmet is a complete moron, and the sooner they succumb to Darwinian selection the better.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Without wishing in any way to be facetious - simply not my style - it's interesting to note various age-related issues at the Club:
1. Helmets advocated: to age 13
2. 'Coming of age' for offspring within SCGB family membership: age 24 (used to be 18)
3. £20 membership: up to age 24
4. Eligible age to become a SCGB rep: age 21 to 60 (used to be 50)
5. Retirement age of SCGB reps: Not stated. Presumably if you can qualify at 60, you can crack on for a good few years.
6. 'Peak Experience' ski holidays: age 50+. "Members aged over 62 years will be required to join trips in this category".
I'm keen to see the Club adopt a policy on the minimum age of criminal responsibility. I understand that "65" is mooted.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Thu 15-01-09 16:41; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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David Goldsmith, at what age do you get banned friom their forum?
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I've very little data on which to comment on that. One method of finding out would be to join and experiment, in a responsible fashion.
My most recent recollection is that all members of the SCGB Council and staff are banned from posting on the Club's forum, with the exception of the magazine editor (who is a good age). I don't know the ages of SCGB staff and officials, but as far as I know they're all over 13.
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You know it makes sense.
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back on topic a little............ I hear rumour that it has been discussed at ESF National level that all ESF instructors will wear helmets to set a good example but that when voted at regional level it gets over ruled.
Only a matter of time methinks!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Well one can imagine all those male ESF instructors bragging about how many times they've had them polished..... 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Well I know that at the British Champs everyone that competes has to wear a helmet - whatever the FIS rules are...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
1. Helmets advocated: to age 13
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to put it in correct context "and for adults it's at their own discretion". To me they're just implying that 14 is the age at which you are able to make your own choice. Nothing to do with physical anatomy.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well I am a FIS racer and have been at racers when people have intended to race without a helmet and then been pulled.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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uktrailmonster, you're quite right that the full sentence is "Here at the Ski Club we advocate helmet use for the under 13s, and for adults it's at their own discretion."
As a one-time equipment writer for a magazine called Skateboard! (where helmets were an obvious issue) we left it to teenagers to take their own decisions on helmets. And these were readers with their heads sometimes several metres above solid concrete.
I was simply bemused that my club classes a 14-year-old as an adult in this context, but in the context of a family membership a 23-year-old is classed as a continuing dependant (in effect).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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GrahamN,
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I've had a pole in the eye and there was concern that I'd fractured my eye-socket. Irrespective of whether any slalom racers have had fractured skulls, getting a pole in the face f****** hurts - even at the speeds I go. Anyone willingly racing down a slalom course (and as other disciplines are faster, it would apply in their case even more) without a helmet is a complete moron, and the sooner they succumb to Darwinian selection the better
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So I'd be fairly certain you would CHOOSE to wear a helmet, others may not want to. I notice that no-one has yet come up with an instance of a slalom-skier doing a Jack.
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David Goldsmith, if you had made it clear in the first place that you just wanted another chance to drone on about family memberships of the Saga Ski Club, the rest of us could have known not to waste our time reading this rubbish. Have a bit of consideration.
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"Informed comment" rather than "rubbish", please.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
I was simply bemused that my club classes a 14-year-old as an adult in this context, but in the context of a family membership a 23-year-old is classed as a continuing dependant (in effect). |
Sorry I mistook it for a thinly disguised helmet rant. As you were 
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Wearing of a helmet will remain compulsory for my daughter (13 this month) whilst I am paying to take her and I think it's sensible. I do set an example by wearing one too.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Gordyjh,
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So I'd be fairly certain you would CHOOSE to wear a helmet, others may not want to. I notice that no-one has yet come up with an instance of a slalom-skier doing a Jack.
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I am surprised you feel that a broken skull is the only head injury worth protecting against. Brain damage can occur without it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Gordyjh wrote: |
| beequin, Stenmark used to hit wooden poles with less padding than is used now and he wore a bobble hat. Like I said, there is no apparent reason for slalom skiers to wear helmets - do you remember one getting a fractured skull? |
Do you know any slalom racers who object to wearing a helmet today?
Is a fractured skull the only thing you wish to protect yourself from?
It used to be considered acceptable to race an F1 car with zero crash protection, no seatbelt and a leather cap to keep your hair in place. Ok, they did frequently die in crashes as a direct result, so not quite the same league. But times change, safety standards improve. If I was slalom racing, I'd want to wear a helmet for protection against minor knocks at the very least. Why wouldn't you?
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Well as i said I am a FIS racer and I am always hitting my head on slalom gates!!!
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You know it makes sense.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
uktrailmonster, you're quite right that the full sentence is "Here at the Ski Club we advocate helmet use for the under 13s, and for adults it's at their own discretion."
As a one-time equipment writer for a magazine called Skateboard! (where helmets were an obvious issue) we left it to teenagers to take their own decisions on helmets. And these were readers with their heads sometimes several metres above solid concrete. |
So although you could see the obvious dangers involved, you and your magazine were too gutless to take a lead on safety. Was this because you didn't want to appear uncool and preachy to youngsters? Clearly that would have been a case of sales verses safety. A truly pathetic and morally bankrupt position.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| PJSki wrote: |
| Was this because you didn't want to appear uncool and preachy to youngsters? Clearly that would have been a case of sales verses safety. A truly pathetic and morally bankrupt position. |
Probably (we were really cool and non-preachy) but there's plenty of money in helmets and helmet advertising. Our readers were generally over 13.
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Poster: A snowHead
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To be less flippant (and 30 years on from the heady (sic) says of skateboarding in the late 70s), I think you're probably right that any sports magazine can usefully include safety tips. It's for democratically-elected governments to make safety laws. And primarily for parents (or those in loco parentis) to keep an eye on their kids' safety.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Goldsmith, did you review helmets back then?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, we did. Because skateboarding boomed so rapidly at the time and had not created its own head protection, ice hockey helmet manufacturers were quick to cater for the demand. Their helmets were considered the most suitable.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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PJSki, I think they are - from time to time Lidl sell ski helmets. IIRC they conform to CE specifications, and are a fraction of the price of helmets sold in sports shops. It's a bit like walking and ski jackets. If a jacket's sold for walking it's one price - call it for skiing, and the retail price rises a whole bunch.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 18-01-09 14:41; edited 1 time in total
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achilles, CE specs are not particularly difficult to achieve. Some of the better helmets far exceed minimum legal regulations and are often lighter/more comfortable to wear. Not saying the Lidl helmets are rubbish, but not all CE approved helmets provide the same protection/comfort/ventilation etc.
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Try working with a class of 10 kids and then see if you think they should be wearing helmets or not.
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