 Poster: A snowHead
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snowforever, clearly the relative difficulty of the couloir itself will greatly depend on the snow conditions at the time and it is possible that your hypothetical skier may be able to get down it safely if he is not worried about being on a steepish slope. However the approach is, as noted above, a different matter and in my opinion requires one to have an almost "instinctive" feel for using the skis with your feet in response to what the ground is doing. I am very doubtful that an inexperienced skier would have the control skills required to negotiate that safely. I have seen even quite reasonable skiers struggling to get down narrow tracks where lots of foot/leg rotation and steering of the skis is required in a space not much wider than the length of the skis, never mind in a place where even that may not be an option in some parts.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Wayne wrote: |
| If your 1st week skier likes the look of the Grand Couloir, after this why not jump into a car and whizz over to Alpe d'Huez and have a crack at The Tunnel. |
Having only skied the GC over ten years ago my memory isn't as clear as it could be but I'd rank it as more difficult than the Tunnel at ADH (given equal snow conditions). What do others think?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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not sure about relative steepnesses, but the GC is probably a bit more impressive and there isn't any way of chickening out
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Here's the ridge on a good day. Not my photo.
It was more like the luge at the CF when I did it!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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altis, interesting, it's many years since I was there but I seem to recall having to manouevre through / around some big gnarly bits, not all nice and open like that. Still, my memory ain't what it used to be (I think) 
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Cracking photo - very atmospheric
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It's also many years since I've been to ADH but I seem to recall the Tunnel as a steepish run with some big bumps on it? Not the same feeling of exhilaration as having done the couloir, but the two were separated by a few years I guess and hence there was a likely change in my ability level. I think I went to ADH first.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yoda, they have also blasted a track into the slope next to the Tunnel so people can chicken out of doing the proper run. a poor move IMO
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I remember years ago going down the GC with my wife and one of the daughters who was about 10 at the time. She's been skiing since she was about 4 so she's quite good. There was this other couple on it and whilst we were going down, I heard them say 'How could you bring a small child onto something like this'. Well we got down much quicker than them and the 'child' only fell once.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Fri 19-12-08 18:12; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Going to 3 Valleys in January, how does the Grand Couloir compare with the Tunnel? If you can do the Tunnel (which I have several times) will I find the Grand Couloir ok?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Very different. Sometimes the start of the tunnel can be a bit nasty, i.e. a big drop. Not sure it's easy to compare them. I personally think the Tunnels maybe a bit easier
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| DavidYacht wrote: |
| Going to 3 Valleys in January, how does the Grand Couloir compare with the Tunnel? If you can do the Tunnel (which I have several times) will I find the Grand Couloir ok? |
a lot depends on the snow conditions both the time you did the tunnel and the GC when you wish to do it! You can ski below it and see what you think yourself and also the cable car runs closeby it, so I'd scope it out yourself whilst your there and depending on snow conditions. I've done it in fresh snow and it was very forgiving. I've also skied it heavily mogulled in spring and very less forgiving!
to be honest, I prefer to ski away from the crowds now so haven't skied it in years though... I assume the entrance track is still interesting...
regards,
Greg
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You know it makes sense.
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magwheel, Please would you be so good to tell me which dates you will be in the 3V and also what colour outfit your 1 week kamikazee friend will be wearing. I would then be able to stay well clear ! Seriously, if your friend does attempt it, please make sure you have someone video it, especially the path at the top and post back with the results.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| snowforever wrote: |
| I completely agree that he shouldn't do it if the run is as difficult as described, but the only point i want to make is that there are different types of one week skiers. Some people learn very quickly and ski red runs from day 2 or 3 and some others I know cannot even perform parallel turns after 4 or 5 weeks of skiing! |
Some people get down red runs.
I think the point most people are trying to make here, though may be wrong, is that the GG is not suitable for people with one 1 week's skiing experience. No mater how quick they pick up the basic - which is all you can do in a week.
Forget the ridge if you want, you'll get down it or get down somewhere else (very quickly). The GG itself requires a high level of skill "and" practice (which you can not gain in a week) in skiing quite a steep slope. The ability to "lean" over your edges and go fast is not what is required on the GG.
There are cliffs on either side so if you don't turn quick enough ???. Also as it's quite a steep run most people turn in the same place which creates moguls so you need to have good mogul skiing ability and very quick rotational skills (and separation).
Loads of people "get down" the GG but do they ski it ?. I was on a course with Snow Works 2 years ago and at the end of the course me and Carl (another basi) set of for the GG just for a laugh. But another skier on the snow works course (from another group so we had not seen him ski) came with and told us he was OK with it. All I'll say is that Carl skied the GG with this chaps skis over his shoulder and I skied down the side of the piste with the chap. The guy himself (big guy, and normally OK) was reduced to sobs. He bricked it.
The point is that this chap wanted to do something he couldn't and by getting himself into this situation he put me and my mate in a bad place - we "were" responsible. What were going to do, just ski off and leave him
Maybe the OP's mate could "get" down just about, but there are so many people injured skiing each year is it worth the risk of another one, when the risk can not be reduced by experience and skiing ability.
In my opinion (for what it worth, ignore it if you want) skiing is meant to be safe and fun (in that order) and when you come across something that is neither of these just say no.
Technical Note.
The reason moguls are formed is that people turn at the same point so as not to disturb the hibernating flocks of sheep under the snow. Different tyes of sheep (thicker wool ya see) create different heights of moguls. In France some sheep have “very” long wool and this is the reason French moguls are quit big. There are some similar breeds (thick wool) around Verbier.
Have fun
| Sideshow_Bob wrote: |
| Having only skied the GC over ten years ago my memory isn't as clear as it could be but I'd rank it as more difficult than the Tunnel at ADH (given equal snow conditions). What do others think? |
Don't know - I like blue runs with lots of cafes
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Poster: A snowHead
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Mmmm. Interesting. The Tunnel is my benchmark of tough. Each time I went there over a 3-day period the first turn seemed desperate - then I really had to keep awake for the next three or so turns. Without a recent spoonful of easkski medlcine, I don't think I would have hacked it. Conditions were hard-packed and moguls - with some nasty icy traverses at the start (boarders had ruined the natural line by bulldozing action). If the The Tunnel is being compared with the Couloir, then it definitely needs quite a bit of experience. At least access to the Tunnel is fairly easy. When I was in Courchevel long ago, I was totally deterred by the deep icy mogully rut requited to get across that very exposed ridge.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Wayne wrote: |
...........Technical Note.
The reason moguls are formed is that people turn at the same point so as not to disturb the hibernating flocks of sheep under the snow. Different tyes of sheep (thicker wool ya see) create different heights of moguls. In France some sheep have “very” long wool and this is the reason French moguls are quit big. There are some similar breeds (thick wool) around Verbier......... |
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| altis wrote: |
Here's the ridge on a good day. Not my photo.
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It seems much narrower than it looks in that photo when you're actually on it.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| altis wrote: |
Here's the ridge on a good day. Not my photo.
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It seems much narrower than it looks in that photo when you're actually on it. |
Yes, and the drops off the ridge look much more menacing in the flesh.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Letting a 1-weeker down the GC as part of your group of more experienced skiiers is doing him a huge disservice - the experienced ones should be dissuading him with all their energy. I've skiied 9 weeks and you wouldn't see me near that, I've seen it from the chair and that's close enough. The Combe de Saulire is excitement enough for me!
You wouldn't put a just-passed-their-test driver into a Ferrari on a motorway would you?
Taking a beginner down the GC is negligence in my opinion. How are they going to feel if something terrible happens?
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Having tried it as a vaguely OK skier and fallen and lost a ski on it, I'd think anyone with just one weeks experience would be out of their mind to try it, putting a ski back on on such a steep slope is test in itself! And as everyone says the path is quite intimidating, the picture doesn't do the exposure justice. I've in my past done the Aonch Eagch (sp) in Glencoe and the exposure on that is far less than that on the ridge down the Meribel side and boy was it bumpy when I did it, not something for an novice IMHO.
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To put thie tunnel vs GC comparison into context.
I took my boy, then age 8, down the ADH tunnel run at the end of his 3rd week, he's a quick learner and he coped admirably.
When we go to 3V in April I'm not convinced I'll let him on the couliors, despite having 3 more weeks experience.
The tunnel is steep, but not (in the main) life threteaning.
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masmith, having looked at the Grand Couloir and having skied (I use the term loosely  ) the Tunnel, I'd agree with that.
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I just hope the original poster's friends don't see this thread: "I took my 11 year old, nay my 8 year old, nay my 4 year old down there.", "I did it after one week but I was really good.".... Talk about a red rag to a bull(crapping) modern British Lad.
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| masmith wrote: |
To put thie tunnel vs GC comparison into context.
I took my boy, then age 8, down the ADH tunnel run at the end of his 3rd week, he's a quick learner and he coped admirably.
When we go to 3V in April I'm not convinced I'll let him on the couliors, despite having 3 more weeks experience.
The tunnel is steep, but not (in the main) life threteaning. |
Oh well, when faced with the opportunity, in reasonbly good conditions (soft snow, good cover, maybe above average sized bumps) we took the plunge today, and got down in fine style. A little nervous at times on the larger bumps/steeper sections, but he (now 11 y.o) nailed the ridge and the start. On the way back up in the Saulire cable car little Tom couldn't quite belive what he had achieved. He said he was proud of what he did, not half as proud as his dad.
Bring on Le Telepherique !
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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masmith, wow, well done. Maybe one day for me. Got to the top of it a few times this year but couldn't do it!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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magwheel, sorry but your friends sound very silly and childish if you ask me. The thing is with the GC is that you can't see what it's like until after you've been over the ridge leading into it, and, like others have said, it requires much more intricate skills than your average 1 week skier will have at that stage. Personally I think it would be absolute madness to encourage him to try it, how would your friends feel if once onto it he fell badly and sustained huge injuries or worse, or if he then killed or injured someone else in the process?
The ridge in March when I was there was very mogully indeed and very narrow with drops to both sides, it would be likely at his perceived level that he'd be over the edge, it's not one that you can just snowplough worse case scenario.
Like others have said, the GC is often closed anyway. I have only ever seen it open once.
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VolklAttivaS5, we were there in March aswell, I know I could ski whatever came after but it was just the ridge that looked madness.
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You know it makes sense.
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HH, absolutely. It was fast running as well that day. Saw some right lunatics going across it and they had a job to stop at the end before the main bit starts as well, going up the one side in some cases because they'd picked up too much speed and not enough twisting and scraping going on across the bumpy bit.
What scares me is if you get someone like that behind you when you're negotiating the ridge yourself so there's a risk of them colliding with you and sending you over the edge. 
I reckon it sounds like a bit of WW is going on there with magwheel's group.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 15-04-09 17:56; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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VolklAttivaS5, not much point in offering advice now - as if you look at the OP they were going in Jan.
I wonder what they did in the end? He's not posted since this thread.
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Poster: A snowHead
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GrahamN, oh yeah, I must admit I didn't notice that, just saw all of the posts from today!
God only knows what happened. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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magwheel, It would be idiotic to take him down it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Read the opening post and you know exactly what is going on here.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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FWIW skied GC 2 days ago, huge moguls, soft snow in between, not my favourite run at all, and wouldn't really recommend it. Much better skiing to be found in Courchevel.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm interested in how you should ski the ridge as when I did it I have to admit it was a bit of a controlled "slide" for me and I was relieved to get onto the moguls!
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 If you are all advanced/expert skiers, why are you asking this question?
Surely you must know the answer!
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| Arno wrote: |
| i think your average 1 week skier will take one look at the ridge and get no further than that |
This well above average, many many weeks skier wouldn't get further than looking at the ridge. My technical ability is well beyond what is needed, but my head can't handle that kind of exposure. 
I don't think I'm the only skier with vertigo problems, though,
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| elgrego wrote: |
If you are all advanced/expert skiers, why are you asking this question?
Surely you must know the answer! |
If that was at me...I'm not advanced/expert. I am a pretty good intermediate and had no idea what lay ahead when I headed down that run.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowball, the moguls are alot larger at the moment than that video!!
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FAQ
