 Poster: A snowHead
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| I've expressed the view in the past that teaching people to parallel etc. (which I presume still accounts for a high proportion of ski school work) does not require complex skills on the part of an instructor. |
I fundamentally disagree. I think getting people to the first stage of their skiing career should warrant the highest teaching skills available. |
I think the reason people shake, rotate, rattle and roll on skis is that they chuck instruction when they reach parallel (or don't take lessons at all).
I think professionally-qualified instructors have always had good teaching skills (and excellent technical knowledge) ingrained in them, but their language skills are the biggest drawback when teaching foreign clients. I had loads of ski lessons as a child, but never really learned to ski until I did BASI, when the skills were taught in my mother tongue.
Language and communication are very important factors, and maybe people tend to stop because they don't enjoy full communication and interaction with the instructor's bank of knowledge.
Obviously there are varying views on how highly and technically an instructor needs to be trained, but I think there's a tendency to over-qualify.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| I think the reason people shake, rotate, rattle and roll on skis is that they chuck instruction when they reach parallel (or don't take lessons at all). |
I don't think so. They already have those problems by the time they reach parallel. Stopping instruction at that point means that they simply perfect those poor habits (I speak from personal experience here). The trick is to make sure they get to parallel with the skills which will take them to a much higher level of performance should they continue with instruction. That requires the highest level of teaching from day 1.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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But, realistically, it also requires a lot of other factors such as fitness and natural physical potential which are beyond the control of the instructor. I'd say that anyone (basically) qualified by BASI in 1975 had a very high technical skill in teaching people to their full potential, free of rudimentary faults, to parallel standard. ["but then I would say that, wouldn't I?"]
'Ski school', however, has always had an image problem for most (the majority) of recreational skiers because it has to be a bit regimented and controlled to achieve anything. Plus the language issue above, which can diminish the experience enormously.
People essentially give it up - I'm generalising - because they want to slide around in the sun, and don't aspire to perform like athletes, or lack the fitness/strength/confidence to do it. They basically don't regard skiing as a sport, but a means of superb sightseeing and recreation/fun.
At this stage they'll hack moguls and powder as best they can, and might take an occasional few lessons. The bad habits may well kick in, and I don't think a skier can be immunised from them pre-parallel with any degree of assurance.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| I'd say that anyone (basically) qualified by BASI in 1975 had a very high technical skill in teaching people to their full potential, free of rudimentary faults, to parallel standard. |
I don't share your confidence for today's entry level BASI qualifications (I put myself firmly in that camp) and from what I understand it is tougher to pass BASI qualifications now than it was in previous years. Technical standards and range of coverage have been raised/widened.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd defer to any more qualified view at this stage, because I've not re-qualified in any serious way since 1976 (when I mistakenly went for BASI 2 and failed). Unless things have changed, the refresher is not a pass/fail and you maintain your BASI qualification simply by attending for the day and getting the trainer's signature in your licence book (is it still a little red book?).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| ... in your licence book (is it still a little red book?). |
No, it's a record in BASI's Big Brother Database and a credit card sized Licence which bears your photo (no sunglasses or goggles, please).
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So is that licence card re-issued each year?
In my licence book, I stuck in annual paper BASI licence stickers to revalidate it. Mine has 8 different-coloured annual stickers, so it's like a mini album. Maybe I only paid the subscription 8 times [shock], and the last one is a yellow 1998-1999 one.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
So is that licence card re-issued each year?
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Yes
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David Goldsmith, as someone who still keeps the little red book for nostalgia's sake I beg to differ completely from your opinion about modern ski teaching. I qualified Grade 3 in 1972 and looking back I can see a vast difference in the technical level and input etc. across the board. In those days we knew very little, didn't have to ski all that well, certainly didn't have to be able to demonstrate as well as is now required .... and I'm not necessarily talking about ISTD but about L2 (Grade 3) as well.
Also, don't forget that in those days there were distinctly different turns that we had to learn/teach: snowplough turn; stem christie/basic swing; and parallel. All thes were produced completely differently, required new skills at each level and could keep the holiday skier in ski school for up to 4 years or more. Nowadays, all turns are basically produced the same way, so going from sp turn to parallel does not require learning a special intermediate turn (stem christie), and indeed, paralell turns just 'evolve' now on their own. Therefore, some people can learn to ski parallel in one week. Parallel turns are no longer the great achievement that they used to be.
What has not changed (up til the last time I did one about 4 years ago) is the refresher - what a waste of time and money. I couldn't even get BASI to send me a receipt for the cost - so unprofessional. fortunately the tax man didn't ask to see my receipts that year. It's partly why I stopped paying the subs - as a National you get nothing from BASI at all, and when you can't even get receipts for professional costs, it's a pretty poor thing. Totally the opposite with the french SIMS bunch.
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easiski, interesting points. My clear recollection from 1975 was that Ali Ross (my trainer) was already strongly encouraging us to 'knee steer' snowplough turns, then accelerate them and induce natural parallel turns. He was in some dispute with the other trainers, who were emphasising a more distinct 'basic swing' intermediary turn.
I recall a strong focus on correct demonstration of turns, and a pretty closely scrutinised exam, so I think the professionalism was already being sharpened up by then. It's interesting to reflect that (growingly popular) compact skis were effectively banned during the BASI course, so although I'd been teaching on 170s for the 1974-5 season, it was back to 190s/200s during BASI.
Do BASI trainees today learn on skis representative in design/length of those used by the public?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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easiski, i haven't done a refresher course but they do sound dire.. one thing that will be coming on line soon from BASI are shorter "modules" for the advanced coaching courses that i believe can take the place of a refresher. They may be a few days instead of one but i think it will be more akin to proper CPD for an experienced teacher rather than lumping all instructors with highly variable levels of experience into a single "refresher" course.
taking a short course module on biomechanics, course setting, sports psychology etc. sounds much better and hopefully they will allow a two day course to count as two refreshers...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Do BASI trainees today learn on skis representative in design/length of those used by the public? |
In my limited experience, yes more or less. BASI are suggesting nothing too esoteric by saying minimum turn radius of 17m for courses above L2.
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