 Poster: A snowHead
|
| comprex wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| I can't see it being sustainable to ship products around the world. |
Environmentally, it is far more sustainable for me to buy French and Italian wine than wine from California or Oregon. Because ships have far less impact than trucks. |
How did your French wine get to the docks - we don't have a wine pipeline in France you know! 
I can, and do, buy wine made around my house. Same for other products. Chickens reared down the road etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| comprex wrote: |
| I really wouldn't buy a British ski. Too many memories of the TR7 |
Who made that ski? 
| Whitegold wrote: |
Governments, not foreign companies, are primarily responsible for workers' conditions and rights.
Governments set and enforce the laws. They choose whether to be strict or loose.
Boycotting firms for perceived malpractice in developing countries is usually naive and misplaced. |
Right, that'll be why many involved the apartheid era in South Africa now admit that the various boycotts had a significant impact.
Companies exploit whatever conditions they find in a country, multinationals move to places like China because it's cheap and it's cheap because it's a dictatorship and there's no opportunity for workers to better their lot collectively or voice their complaints individually. The Chinese government is very happy to welcome them and whilst I'd presume they aren't going as far as domestic companies in using forced prison labour they'll be cutting costs and taking full advantage of local 'conditions' unless they're given a reason not to - such as poor publicity and/or organised mass boycotts of companies.
| barry wrote: |
| Whitegold wrote: |
| Governments, not foreign companies, are primarily responsible for workers' conditions and rights. |
for big multinational companies entering China, that's not the case. It is the case though that these companies by and large will not exploit labour and the conditions will mostly be far better than perhaps the average - reputations to protect etc. |
Right, that'll be why Primark are curently mired in child labour accusations and companies like Nike, Gap and others have been in the past purely because they've arrived in developing countries in order to be nice and non-exploitative.... right, I'm, convinced 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
roga, what do you think happens to the workers if a multinational decides to pull out of china? they just go back to their idyllic existence in the paddy fields before the big nasty multinational forced them to come and work for them? or maybe they go back to the breadline, have even less choice of employers and face worse working conditions 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
roga,
this may true of sub-contracted work (which i think would be typical of some of the companies you mention), but generally if the outside company's name is over the door it's a different story. fessing up here, the firm i work for has extensive operations in China and conditions are as good as anywhere else in the world that it operates (pay rates are not quite there, but favourable to the norm in that part of the world). The point about workers not being able to voice concerns is not necessarily valid either - there's nowhere in the world where that situation is truer than in the USA and in particular for big US companies, unions are generally not a feature, except in countries where unions are very strong
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
No - I've just bought some K2s.
I've never knowingly bought French made hardware but I think this is largely because of French labour costs - I had Rossi stuff made in Spain & Solly boots made in Czech. Maybe Solly & Rossi/Look bindings are made in France but I haven't looked into it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Arno wrote: |
| roga, what do you think happens to the workers if a multinational decides to pull out of china? they just go back to their idyllic existence in the paddy fields before the big nasty multinational forced them to come and work for them? or maybe they go back to the breadline, have even less choice of employers and face worse working conditions |
LOL, where did I suggest they pull out?
Perhaps I should re-explain:
I was simply pointing out that many of these companies are attracted by precisely the conditions that prevail in countries like China, namely comparatively cheap labour (some of which is very well educated incidentally). To think anything else IMHO is delusional, it's the way capitalism works, if it didn't they'd stay in countries where labour is more expensive.
As I clearly pointed out conditions are often far worse in indigenous companies, the use of prisoners as free labour being a case in point, many, incidentally, 'political' prisoners (as in people who have dared to suggest they don't live in a workers paradise or maybe even have asked for a wage rise or tried to set up a free trades union!).
Historically many of the companies that were involved in apartheid South Africa didn't pull out but what they did do, which was probably far more effective, was put pressure on the government to change because they were being damaged by the boycotts and attendent bad publicity.
| barry wrote: |
roga,
this may true of sub-contracted work (which i think would be typical of some of the companies you mention), but generally if the outside company's name is over the door it's a different story. fessing up here, the firm i work for has extensive operations in China and conditions are as good as anywhere else in the world that it operates (pay rates are not quite there, but favourable to the norm in that part of the world). The point about workers not being able to voice concerns is not necessarily valid either - there's nowhere in the world where that situation is truer than in the USA and in particular for big US companies, unions are generally not a feature, except in countries where unions are very strong |
Yes, fair points there and I agree but we should be aware that what attracts many companies to developing countries are the cheaper wages although they may also be locating offices there because it opens up that particular market to them. However, we're talking about manufacturing being relocated which I'd suggest is more about keeping wage costs low than opening up the Chinese market to K2 or other manufacturers. In the case of China I'd argue one of the reasons wages are cheaper (and I acknowledge there are others) is because of a very oppressive political system and whether or not companies are directly involved in that oppression they benefit from it. That's the way things naturally work in the marketplace unless other pressures come to bear.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| David Murdoch wrote: |
| comprex, what's wrong with a well sorted TR7? |
Everything, except perhaps a TR8 derivative. I'd have a TR6 anyday in preference.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I buy product on it's merits, they just happen to be made in France(Dynastar) and Switzerland(Switzerland)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
