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Do you watch Ski TV?
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead

alex_heney, I thinks you could have highlighted that whole sentence wink Laughing WGAF?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person

David Goldsmith, The only reason those numbers matter IMO is if you're an advertiser or potential advertiser. Marketeers are aware that all forms of media dress their numbers up... some to a massive degree (normally the non-audited), others less so. Marketeers aren't stupid (well, effective ones aren't) and will test a media before doing more of it. I can't imagine ads on SkiTV get seen by a deep enough audience to work. They need to make it free to all to get the numbers up which is probably why I got sent a free login and password the other day. And (shock horror) I'm not a member so paying members like you DG are effectively subsidising my viewing! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

ABC exist to protect the advertiser (yet is paid for by the advertisers). If they think it misleading they'll ask for it to be changed.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

alex_heney wrote:
... does it really matter to anyone outside SCGB?

thefatcontroller wrote:
WGAF?

Bode Swiller wrote:
The only reason those numbers matter IMO is if you're an advertiser or potential advertiser.

I disagree. This relates, to a large extent, to how my Club positions itself in the world in general. As a publisher of statistics to the general public it is very active indeed. The organisation itself goes well beyond the status of a private members' club as "spokesbody of British skiers" [1995 Mission Statement]. As a TV station, Ski TV sources subscriptions from the general public.

So we are well into the public domain and public standards of accountability here, in my view.

I'm in favour of provable statistical accuracy. Swiller takes a more relaxed view, based on what he argues above.

Incidentally, the one figure which carries the apparent endorsement of ABC Electronic is '35,000 subscribers':
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/advertise/default.asp
[Scroll down, and to bottom LH corner of page]
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.

David Goldsmith, that would be self-proclaimed "spokesbody of British skiers". I don't think anybody cares about that or feels it's needed. I haven't noticed any improvements in the skiers' lot that's thanks to lobbying by the club (we're still paying ski carriage, the environment hasn't improved and I had to stand in a big queue this week-end!) Resorts, airlines, equipment makers etc change & improve because of market pressure. Mind you, 1995 was 13 years ago. Maybe time to update the mission statement. Can anyone think of a suitable alternative? Toofy Grin

I've looked at that link. Yes, if I were an advertiser I'd assume the whole lot was ABC'd but I'd be wary about any sales words & numbers from any source. Do SkiTV visitor numbers get included in the stats for skiclub.co.uk? If so, no problem.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Bode Swiller wrote:
David Goldsmith, that would be self-proclaimed "spokesbody of British skiers".

When I first saw the word I was unfamiliar with it (and still am).
I think it means 'bicycle wheel'.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.

David Goldsmith,

It has been pointed out to you many times that the ski club's 1995 mission statement that you quote was quietly dropped a long time ago. I personally think it always sounded a bit pretentious and I am glad it is no longer in place.

Once again you post something that is entirely misleading.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I am not keen on the advert for Switzerland they feature.

The one with a ski intructor in a red suit, followed by an enormous snake of learners stretching back to the horizon.

It has an annoying French-style, jazzy soundtrack of the 'babba dabba da' variety.

I think it is supposed to be ironic.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!

richjp wrote:
David Goldsmith,
It has been pointed out to you many times that the ski club's 1995 mission statement that you quote was quietly dropped a long time ago.

It's been argued by people who want to deny it for some reason, but it's never been pointed out officially. If you believe the mission's been abandoned, then you'll need to square that with the Club's stated communications policy for 2008:
Ski Club of Great Britain wrote:
As well as being a club, the Ski Club is the voice of recreational snowsports in the UK.

Source:
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/presscentre/faqs.asp#skiclub

richjp, what about the stats above [predominantly 'Ski TV - 35,000 subscribers']?
And you accuse me of misleading people?
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.

P.S. "voice of recreational snowsports", of course, takes our stated mission well beyond "spokesbody of British skiers" because it makes us the self-styled voice of skiing, snowboarding, ski-mountaineering and any other specialisms on snow.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads

David Goldsmith wrote:


richjp, what about the stats above [predominantly 'Ski TV - 35,000 subscribers']?
And you accuse me of misleading people?


One thing that crosses my mind as a possibility is if they have cuonted the number of subscribers to Ski TV as one per person, while the Ski club subscriptions only count the number of actual subscriptions (i.e. if you have a family membership of SCGB, that is one SCGB subscription, but at least two SkiTV "subscriptions" - more if you have kids).

The ABC figures for internet publications are going to take the number of indivioduals they think see the material, I believe.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

But if there are 35,000 subscribers to Ski TV - expressed as individuals benefiting from a smaller number of subscriptions - then how come there are 3,446 'users' (see previous page)?

It makes no sense at all to have a smaller number of users than subscribers, and in this case the proportion is one tenth!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.

I presume "users" is number of people who have actually accessed it, as opposed to those who could.

But I am inclined to agree with Bode Swiller that the figures don't really mean much at all.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much

The number of people who can technically access Ski TV is 33,566 (SCGB gross membership), plus 133 Ski TV subscribers ...

... but, of course, a significant proportion of SCGB members don't use the internet.

From the above figures, it appears that 3313 SCGB members use Ski TV, plus 133 non-members, giving the total of 3446 users.

That's assuming that the 3446 figure comprises 'unique users', rather than people being double-counted.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.

alex_heney, the figures do mean something. The reason they are there at all is to help marketing people weigh up the value of one media against another. Fact is, some sets of figures are more believeable than others and marketeers aren't stupid so they take much of it with a pinch of salt. Quoting 35,000 when 3,446 appears closer to reality is a bit of an attempted con tho'.

The only answer for SkiTV is to go completely free-to-air, no logins. Get the numbers up from pathetic to something an advertiser might get results from... and pay for.

The odd part of all this is that that kind of info wouldn't normally go on a public site.
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