 Poster: A snowHead
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| easiski wrote: |
BTW FastMan, IME many skiers actually admire the wrong person - they see the feet together, flapping arms and frantically twisting body of the old school french skier and think that's good |
IME that does not last long after riding a ski lift with Fastman 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Masque wrote: |
| FastMan, It's 'balance' , the better and more balanced you are, the less effort and range of movement required to influence your tool . . . it's applicable to all sports. |
I agree with you, Masque. Balance is a major component. And it provides one the most functional platform for executing the other components.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Megamum wrote: |
| I watched the clip with interest - I'm prepared to be shot down in flames here, but am I allowed to suggest that the arm action of the very first chap was, err.......a little unique? |
Good eye, Megamum. It's because of that little glitch I didn't direct attention to him. That arm action is a racing thing. It's intended to help take energy out of the prior turn, and use it to propel the racer forward. Not all racers do it. Few do it to this extent. Many win races without doing it at all. It certainly adds clutter to simplicity.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
but good balance depends on good stance
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There's always the exception...... Bode!!! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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easiski, when I think of "good stance", I get static images in my head, an almost "locked" position. (that may not be what you mean, but it is the image I have when I hear those words) Not sure if that makes sense.
Should balance (and stance) be dynamic? I think so, since I don't think there is one and only one "good stance", but that stance has to change to keep the flow going.
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Wear The Fox Hat, yes, it's a dynamic activity so balance should be dynamic. But I like to think there's a 'home' stance/balanced position I should return to all things being equal, and from there I vary my stance (actually, I just fall into the back seat, but that's another story) depending on conditions.
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Wear The Fox Hat, Yes it should be dynamic, but so is your stance when you're walking or in any other movement. As rob@rar, says there's a 'base position' to which you need to be able to return when you've been knocked out of it (which you constantly are when skiing). The best skier probably being the person who can stay in the best possible position for the most amount of time - by actually moving continuously.
The french say you should be standing on the 'point of balace' which is a nice way of putting it. If, for instance, your hips drop back you are then behind the point of balance, and therefore not balanced because you're not standing int he right place on your skis/boots. However this right place will, of course, change constantly as you slide down the hill - in other words it moves with you and you move with it. No-one should ever 'try' to stay in a certain position when skiing as that does promote the 'locked' look - which is why I do all that balance stuff - gets peeps to stand well without them thinking about it and therefore don't (hopefully) become 'locked'.
Personally I don't like the word 'stance' but it seems to be what everyone else is using, so in the interest of clarity I will use it too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar, easiski, well done on the stance response to Wear The Fox Hat. rob@rar, as i was reading Wear The Fox Hat's, question, I was thinking I would respond to him and explain the idea of "home base". Then I read on to see you'd already done it for me.
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***off topic pedantry - ignore**** please don't qualify "unique". Something is unique or it isn't. Zero tolerance. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| easiski wrote: |
| Aah yes - but good balance depends on good stance ................ it all comes back to that in the end. |
Can O'Worms
Balance and Stance are relative to body morphology and cannot be standardised to a 'fixed' curriculum . . . It's the skill of the instructor to see, interpret and apply teaching knowledge to the student's abilities/limitations . . . neither of which define the competence of skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Masque wrote: |
| . . neither of which define the competence of skiing. |
And Fenlandskier calls me Eric Cantona.
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comprex, I came to this thought years ago and I've found it (for me) a truism.
Take a random sample of people all engaged in the same activity and you'll find that there are people on the periphery of the bell curve who's competence at that activity is seemingly at odds to your (the instructor) or even their expectations. I've found this very true in physical activity. It's not that the vast majority of us can achieve an average measure of success at sliding down the hill, just that there are people who just can't get it together and some that are 'naturals'
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You know it makes sense.
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Masque, that is not so very hard to accept, and I do not see that it needs to be overspecified with 'physical'.
What I would object to is a contention that 'average measure of success' cannot include refinement into simplicity.
Granted, the topic was introduced (my emphasis):
| Quote: |
| Observe any ski slope, and every so often a person will come zipping down who captures and demands our attention. What is it about their skiing that leaves us in such awe? It's the simplicity of movement. They sail down the slope with a grace and precision that defies the lack of physical effort seemingly taking place. It's as if the skis have a mind of their own, and the skier is merely a passive passenger on a ride the likes of which few ever get to take. |
as focused on a select tier of performers.
I should imagine that the purpose of the discussion is to make simplicity more broadly available.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Masque, On your first point. The shape of someone's body, length of levers etc does not affect whether they stand in balance. When we talk about 'good stance' that's what we generally mean - the person is standing comfortably over the point of balance. Their body is in a position to work properly and naturally. Therefore there is no fixed idea - or shouldn't be. However there are 'base samples' as it were which are used for learning instructors so they have something to aim for. the danger is that the student then aims for the 'base sample' and becomes fixed and robotic.
On your second point, I don't believe that there are people who can't get it together with skiing. Some people take longer to learn, and some people will never aspire to ski off piste or difficult runs, but I really believe that everyone can learn to do it - whether they want to is another matter. 
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FAQ
