 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm at UEA in Noooooooorwich. Knee is still swollen to some degree. Saw doctor today and he said should be couple more days, but I personally see a week more...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Timmaah, well you've got a great dry slope to practice on when you're better. Sorry, I don't know any physios in that area that I could recommend you to but there are some  s from that area who may be able to help.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You have my sympathy. I have been struggling with torn cartiledge, finally went private to get fixed on Monday. Now a race against time to get fit for 29 Dec. Work hard at that rehab, it's the only way.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Timmaah, I seem to remember Kieth Tomes also sorts out knee braces.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ghost Dog,
You are giving yourself 2 months, is that enough time? I assume your specialists have their opinions.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Timmaah and JT, actually you can lose muscle remarkably quickly, but that does seem a little excessive.
Timmaah, you may be able to do simple calf rasies even with your knee problem - put a book on the floor and stand on it with the ball of your foot. go up on tiptoe and then allow heel to come down (? to floor level - depends on thickness of book). Repeat a zillion times.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Nick L, Cheers for the advice, will be doing some of those exercises soon.
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| Timmaah wrote: |
| I'm at UEA in Noooooooorwich |
Hey! My daughter is at UEA, in her first hear reading history. What are you studying?
Daughter says there is a skiing club, but it is expensive to join - are you a member?
As for your knee: I presume by “dislocated knee” you mean patella dislocation, as discussed on this site (do try out the video clips).
Although medics on this site are doing their best to assist you, you can’t beat personal attention by an expert.
Just next door is the Norfolk and Norwich University Hospital which has many excellent orthopaedic surgeons.
Two in particular might be of interest to you: Mr Simon Donell and Mr Malcolm Glasgow.
You will note that Malcolm Glasgow is the current President of the British Assocation for Surgery of the Knee (BASK), and a past officer of the International Knee Society.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Jonpim, I am doing history and politics (first-year as well) so I've probably spotted her in the lectures and what not. There is indeed a snowsports club and it costs around 44 pounds to join (30 pounds is the sports insurance fee which you need for any sport club and I put that to good use by dislocating my knee playin Futsal...), so 14 pounds to join. Then again the membership fee at the Norfolk Dry slope is 22 pounds and it includes membership there so it ends up being quite good. Oh, and yes I'm a member; not paid the fee yet as I got the injury day after the "social"...
And ya, I did indeed mean patella dislocation. Also, thanks for the links; made an interesting read and it's nice to see that I have those lot next door to me.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Well almost a month later... I can walk now pretty much fine. Going up and down stairs results in knee feeling bit weird. Going to try and start physiotherapy as soon as possible. Went to see a specialist and as I expected no surgery is to be needed, reason for the constant dislocations seem to be how my patella sits partially due to the fact i can hyperextend my legs. Have no estimation of when I can go skiing but surgeon said as long as I feel stable :/ So hoping physiotherapist will give me some sort of time-frame.
Best case scenario? I can ski for christmas, Worst case scenario? February'ish...
Doesn't help as its snowing here in Germany (back for a couple of days) at 300m+
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I have rediculous hyperextension aswell but no problem with dislocation?! Interesting i found the NHS disasteous waiting list months, but if you stumped up a grand-as i did-going private was excellent all sorted within 2 weeks! I found physio (turned out i damaged my PCL) to be tedious, and not very much use at all, all the best however!
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You know it makes sense.
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Good to hear you're improving Timmaah. My brother-in-law has recently become a member at Norwich and he is finding it fun and friendly. I've been to the club once (didn't ski) and thought it was pretty impressive.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Rossfra8, as for the dislocation I think it's a problem of the hyperextension and the fact that my patella sits out too far. Anyhow I have private insurance and the NHS doctor wouldn't prescribe me physio so I have to go private anyway. Will definately book the ones that a person recommended in this topic as it's very close by to where I live and seems decent enough to me! I've yet to go to the dry slope Nick L but apparently it's as good as it gets in terms of dry slopes.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Timmaah,
I may have mentioned this before but here goes. Most people's legs are woefully underprepared for sport, particuarly football and skiing, IMV and this stems from that meeting with a canny physio years ago.
Not withstanding advice from your consultant, you NEED a program to strenghten your legs... being younger, active and fit is NOWHERE near enough. See a qualified physio at a gym..? and tell them what you want to achieve and what the history is and let them devise a program. If they can't help, then they don't know what they are doing, IMV and go somewhere else.
Your knees might be so formed that you have a possiblity of re-occuring injuries..this make it all the more important to get a regime in place.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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JT, Ya I've already decided upon doing physiotherapy. I'm a generally in-shape guy so it's not like I'll be starting from scratch. Sadly my knees are indeed formed so I have a hightened risk of dislocating them. I'll probably book an appointment at the physio nearby on Monday and see how things go, I've had physiotherapy before so I can know what to expect and I know it won't be fun at all 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Well, today was first time I exercised since the incident.. So little over a month. Did 30 minutes in the gym and did 6km on the bike and around 2km on the treadmill. Knee was fine, no ache or anything. Had a moment of stiffness on bike but that subsided. Until I ramped up the speed on the treadmill in the dying seconds and had a slight pain running down the centre of my knee (what is this ligament called?). So I stopped and knee's fine.
Wanted to find physiotherapy place today but couldn't find it so will book things etc. next week.
All in all, knee was feeling quite confident and I'm quite glad that I managed to do so much after a 4 week break. 
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Erm.. in my drunken stupor i attempted a handstand and failed miserably and hurt my knee. Inside of the knee where one of the ligaments is a bit sore, shall i just rest doing stuff for a couple days?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yes - usual advice - RICE - Rest Ice Compression and Elevation (and ibuprofen)
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Cheers Nick L, that seemed to do the job. Had a checkup today and something that kind of surprises me is that they now have prescribed me physiotherapy via the NHS whereas before they weren't going to... Generally was a very superficial checkup and the doctor only checked to see if I could bend my leg and that was it. I was going to make an appointment by the physiotherapist afterwards but not sure what to do now...
I want to be able to ski by the 22nd of December and am willing to do intensive physiotherapy but I doubt the NHS will let me do that, they said they'd call me to make an appointment 
So should I just go to the private physiotherapist and book as many sessions as possible and tell the NHS I've seeked physiotherapy elsewhere? It's just that I feel as if the NHS don't give a crap, which as a patient isn't really something you want to be feeling.
No timeframe was given yet again which is a shame but understandable.
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So guess who dislocated their knee again? And... missing BUDS again...
*sighs*
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Timmaah, Bug..
Stating the obvious here probably, but I guess you have an inherrent problem and you need to get at the root cause....
Have you kept up all the exercises..? where you given any..? As if you have a weakness there you are probably going to have to keep these going all the time..or you will have to have an Op. I am surprised that this hasn't been mentioned..?
I am a little surprised that this injury appears to have history and no one seems to have talked you through what you need to do to look after it or manage it.
When you embark on the healing process again, it appears that you will have ask some pretty pertinent questions yourself..
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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JT, I did physio, went skiing and played sports fine so I didn't keep up with the exercises. I, perhaps naively, assumed that regular exercise would help. My knee has posed no problems whatsoever.. I went skiing the day it happened and I felt a twinge, but it was in the other knee.. Obviously once you dislocate your knee, you're more likely to do it again...
Right now, I'm in surprisingly good spirits.. I see a doc on monday and will see how it goes. Only pros I can see is that it didn't dislocate as bad as it did last time so maybe I will recover quickly? But the tendons got ripped.. so not sure how long that takes to heal.... And also I can apply pressure on the leg already..
I will be seein a surgeon once I'm healed to see if I can have surgery to fix it because this is frankly become a hassle
Also, doctors never told me to keep doing physio...
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Timmaah,
With your history of popping knees..I would guess that you will always have to do more than others as the frequency you injure your knees doesn't sound usual.
I have a back problem which I always have to keep on top of... and as we get older there are some things we just can't take for granted anymore.... and being fit enough from usual activities is one of of those things, IME..
I was told at 19 that my knees were not in a good enough state to play football..and I think I have mentioned before...my knees were in quite good shape at the time...but just not good enough according to a physio.. I have followed his advice and program every year since to go skiing.
I am guessing that once you get your knees sorted again..you will have to always do some work ...muscles slacken and ligaments stretch etc etc ...
to stop doing the injury all over again.
And if those Doctors never told you to keep doing physio...or rather, never told you to keep up some sort of dedicated exercise to protect the injury, then I wouldn't put so much credence in their work again.
Get the knees sorted and then get a regime from a sorted physio...and put as much money in the best one you can find to advise you, with access to any scans you have had done, or work with a specialist to get a plan and result to put this behind you.
I don't suppose all this will be that easy with your particular problem... but at least a proper sorted regime should help....
I would ask the DR on monday why this keeps happening... medically.. and see what he says and then you can decide where to go from there..
If you feel you are getting fobbed off, then contest it until you feel you have people on your case you will see it through.
In some Dr's defence they have many many more pressing problems than yours and a look around a NHS physios waiting room will confirm that, surely, but if you tell them what you expect or want, they can at least tell you why they are embarking on such and such a course of action...and the likely end result.
Don't be so easily swayed that they know best... be convinced, or not..and then go and see someone else who knows...
Just my non-medical 2p, FWIW
Oh yes.. ligaments take a long time to heal... so you will need to strenghten the muslces to hold the knee in place..which is what they should be doing anyway... but the only quick way to take slack out of ligaments, is to stitch/knit them together... but a DR can correct the finer pints of that op.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I don't know what the situation with medical insurance is, these days, but when I was a graduate student (too long ago to contemplate), there was a really cheap BUPA membership. My GP (who was a very pro-sports doctor) recommended that I subscribe. Then he could refer me to a private physio for any injuries I incurred.
I did this, and over a three-year period I certainly got more than my subscription back in physio.
I can remember the physio to this day - he was a larger-than-life character who used to treat the Cambridge University Rugby Club (this was in the days when a substantial number of the side were internationals). I can recall him berating one of them for not doing his rehab. sufficiently assiduously. In the middle of his tirade, he dropped his trousers (not a pretty sight) to display a set of scars across his thighs, with the words - "Look at those. That was a Japanese machine gun in 1944. They told me I'd never walk again".
Pretty motivating stuff. (It was the way he said it, and the fact that he was about 18 stone and a very powerful man).
It might be worth-while finding out if BUPA still offer good-value discounts to students, because it sounds as though - with your knees, you could get your money's worth as well.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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JT, Ya, went to doctor today. And basically I knew the medical reason but he just restated what I thought. I place where the patella locks in to the femur, which is meant to be V-shaped. Is flat by me. So when my leg hyper-extends it get just slide out with relative ease. Anyway.. he said splint in 4 weeks then re-assessment. I'm not really buying that, perhaps out of blind hope or whatever.. but I feel that my knee is stronger and needs to be in a splint for 2-3 weeks.
Acacia, Iwill have a look at BUPA, i had a pro-sports physio back in germany who always helped me get up to shape quickly. Cheers
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I dont think I've ever skied past February but I guess htis year I'll have to look into it.
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Bad luck with the injury - sounds really disappointing. But every cloud has a silver lining and discovering March and April skiing could be it!
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You know it makes sense.
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Timmaah
Sorry about that man! Best of luck for a speedy recovery!
I agree with some pp's though. I would check into some stellar rehab centers/gyms quick to get back on track. You need a lot of physical therapy quick to get into shape!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Ya cheers guys!
pam w, I discovered March skiing last year and had the best powder days of my life... so I'm not as down as I was last year when this happened.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Timmaah, bad luck (again!) The right physio will work on hard on proprioception of your patella - because (any) joint stability relies on three things, not one:
1. Yes, the shape of the joint (you aren't being helped by the shape of your femur).
2. "Static" soft tissues (ligaments and joint capsule - this is what your orthopod is trying to persuade to tighten up by temporary bracing)
3. Muscles. A large part of the control of the patellar is dynamic and depends on your quads (and to a lesser extent hamstrings because they can rotate the tibia on the femur altering angles) and it is quads proprioceptive reflexes that will allow you to unconsciously control the patella better.
Work work work (I know, you're a student )
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Alright... somethings confusing me.
It's not even been a week, and I can significantly bend my knee with no pain. Also, I've been putting pressure on it, with the splint - no problem. Without the splint, it's a little more difficult still.
Swelling keeps going down.
So why on earth did the NHS tell me to stay in the splint for 4 weeks? Last time this happened the NHS told me the same thing and I had to spend the next 2 weeks loosening up my muscles, because they had got tight due to being in the same position for so long.
I feel that I can walk in 1-2 weeks time already... so what was the doctor playing at? Or am I just high? I'm not taking pain medication anymore either... So that's not masking the pain either.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Timmaah wrote: |
| Nick L, One thing I don't quite get.. is that if muscles play a fundamental role, then why is my stronger leg getting dislocated more often than my significantly weaker left one? |
My point was more that muscles are the only one of the three that you can really alter. The stronger leg is probably has a worse (more dislocatable) boney shape.
I'm glad to hear that you are progressing rapidly. My view about continued mobilisation is yes, but gently (you want the joint capsule to repair firmly and too much early stretching might not help this). However, you can be doing straight leg raises as much as you want right now.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Quick update.. I was out of the splint and walking within 12 days, not the 4 weeks the NHS doctor prescribed me. Had my checkup today, many x-rays and an mri later and the knee healed fine. There is some scarring on the patella but thats not too surprising...
I'm getting a bit annoyed at doctors recently.. yesterday the doctor said I could ski, providing I used a knee support bandage, today he tells me I should wait till I do several physio sessions. He also says that I should wait for it to happen again before doing surgery. The doctor in the UK said a similar thing (wait for it to happen a third time before operating).
Why would I wait to dislocate my knee again when the MRI has shown that it WILL happen again? Why prescribe physiotherapy when I dislocated it this year when my leg was extremely strong, thereby showing that physiotherapy hasn't really helped.
 it, I'm a bit naffed and lost faith in the doctors. I'm going skiing. Obviously it will be a risk, but a calculated risk. I have only dislocated the knee when it has been hyperextended, and as long as I don't do jumps I see no reason why my knee will be hyperextended.
/rant etc.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Timmaah, good luck. Glad about the March powder.
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Timmaah, ok - I have stayed out of this one so far...
firstly - I think I would go skiing too - as most skiing is in flexion, and you should not really be getting into hyperextension and lock-out.
secondly - and nit-picking perhaps - but for the sake of clarity -this is a dislocation of the Patella - not the Knee isn't it- and they can be complete bugs. But some people have them on the field, get a mate to put them back in, and carry on with the game. Yours is obviously rather worse...
Thirdly: Is your orthopaedic surgeon a knee specialist or sports orthopaedics specialist?
lastly - has any one checked you over for Hypermobility? Try the tests for the Beighton Criteria
I am sure you have already looked at this - from a good online resource
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Hey stoatsbrother, ya I should really stop saying knee when it is the patella...
About the beighton criteria, my gym teacher made me do it when he freaked out at me doing a handstand when my arms were hyperextended.. I score 4/9 btw...
The doctor was a sports orthopaedics specialist
pam w,
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Timmaah, well that 4/9 might be your explanation....
hope all goes well - stay low and don't pop those jumps.
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FAQ
I'm a generally strong lad, noticably the legs and have got actual calf muscle. My left muscle has them but by the right its flat again.. it's like my left leg is still fit and the right leg is a mirror image of a chicken leg. Obviously I know the splint and crutches and what not.. but I've been walking on my right foot wiht splint and crutches for past week so surely one week inactivity can't cause that much muscle depletion can it? Any easy quick way to build it up again without damaging the knee in the mean time?
