 Poster: A snowHead
|
admin, Kids at that age learn mostly by copying others, so there isn't going to be a lot of detailed explanations in a foreign language if they are in a mixed group. It would be best if you could make up a full class though, maybe even arrange for them to meet up in the UK first.
Traditional ski clubs develop in the same way. They start out as a drinking society/dating agency/way of getting group discounts then find out that since the adults are skiing more then so are any children. With the extra time on snow the kids get good quite quickly then need stuff planned for them to improve further.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Yes I know rjs, but it's not missing out on the detailed explanations that isolates them. It's when everyone in the group is chatting away, just making friends or the instructor cracks a joke and everyone else laughs. Even in a 50/50 group the instructor will sometimes tend toward chatting in the home tongue and deliver the bare minimum of translations. You're right, usually detailed explanation isn't required and so an instructor can still be very good at teaching in a language he's not entirely fluent in: I don't see that as an issue nearly so much as groups where the students are primarily of another nationality, particularly when they are the same nationality as the teacher. 5 days of that on your own at age 11 or 12 could be a right drag.
It would be the same for one French kid in a group full of Brits.
But look, I'm not here to rant about that, it's really not a big issue for me: the whole idea is to be able to make up various groups for various snowMissions from within the party. Give the kids a challenge, give the parents some space, give everyone a chance to make friends.
Yes a UK meet or two would be cool as would the fact that they'll all be under the same roof, eating together, hangin' out etc. : a bit like a snowHeads bash 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
richmond, I cannot say about schools in Austria - it's too long since I've worked there. I would (seriously) expect any top class to do off piste if the snow was suitable. However that might vary with the instructor .. I can just see no reason (except technical) why youngsters shouldn't also go into the deep.
skimottaret, Dutch parents just stick their kids in with other nationalities (and they don't start learning english etc until11), and it's always fine. when I was 9 we went to corsica and got stuck in a mountain village - me and my sister (6) played with the local kids very happily. I think (and sorry for saying this), that it's the parent's attitude to kids being with other nationalities that influences them. They pick up languages very quickly - but they need to see it as a normal thing and not as a pain in the ar*se. Joining in is not just a matter or talking is it?
at any rate - all the kids should deffo continue to have lessons as long as you parents can afford it - all ski schools offer lessons at higher levels, and if more british parents sent their kids then there wouldn't be a problem would there? I've seen many parents say "my .... is too good for ski school now" only to see said kid ski off leaning back, rotating, unable to even to a proper parallel turn - OK they go fast - that's not the same thing is it?????
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
easiski,
| Quote: |
| I've seen many parents say "my .... is too good for ski school now" only to see said kid ski off leaning back, rotating, unable to even to a proper parallel turn - OK they go fast - that's not the same thing is it????? |
I totally agree !!
Must go or i will be late. Have a good day everybody
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
easiski, I don't think anyone is too good for ski school.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
admin,
| Quote: |
| How many others know that their school is not on holiday the week beginning 5th Apr '08? |
Our local schools are quite happy to let kids take a week out of term time to go skiing
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
[quote="admin"]
| Quote: |
Would anyone be interested in such a thing? |
Definitely interested in this. I have just been given a permit from Mrs PeteMillis to book a ski hol for me and my two older daughters (who will be 11 and 13). Both have come on in leaps and bounds this past week. The 12 yr old (who will be 13), well we hardly saw her all week after she made a "ski friend". Then when I skied with her at the end of the week, keeping up was a bit of an issue!
We had an excellent instructor (Brian Evans - see www.skidegrees.co.uk ) who looked after Mrs PeteMillis, daughter numer 2 and 3, and son number 1 for 3 hours earlier in the week, and it really helped them progress well and got them off to a good start. Brian does a lot of teaching for ESF as well as private, and owns the chalet just down the road from where we were staying so very convenient.
Oldest daughter didn't have lessons at all, but Brian took us on a guided tour (FOC) on some challenging stuff mid-week which she loved. I found with the oldest daughter that what really improved her skiing was being encouraged by a skilled person who was now a family member. Also, just having her ski friend to ski with meant they egged each other on to overcome some more tricky terrain.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
easiski, sorry have to rise to the bait on this one.
| Quote: |
it's always fine. when I was 9 we went to corsica and got stuck in a mountain village - me and my sister (6) played with the local kids very happily. I think (and sorry for saying this) that it's the parent's attitude to kids being with other nationalities that influences them. They pick up languages very quickly - but they need to see it as a normal thing and not as a pain in the ar*se. Joining in is not just a matter or talking is it?
|
Your experience was with your sister so you always had someone to speak with when the going got tough, mine is an only child... When you say the kids are "fine" what does that mean? As i said in my earier post I put my daughter through the ESF system and when she was younger she fit right in but now on the cusp of teenager hood she had a much more FUN time being with english kids in a Magic in Motion group (with a French instructor)
She takes French in school, her mum is a fluent french speaker, we bought a place in France so are very keen for her to pick up as much language as she can, she orders her own meals in french etc....
Sure, throw a kid in with a group of foreign language speaking children and they will "fine" and "get by" but will they really have a GREAT time, get all the jokes, pick up all the instruction and remember their experience as a great holiday, In our case no...
I am still not sure that trying to combine ski and language lessons is the best idea.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
skimottaret, easiski, Not all kids are the same. Some are full of confidence and will ask for confirmation of something they might be uncertain about. They will get on with others even though they don't understand the language. It will all be a lot of fun. But other kids are far less confident, will just keep quiet and inconspicuous, and will possibly have a very lonely time even though they tell you they are "fine". This is also likely to happen in a group full of others speaking the kid's own language.
What kids need is an instructor who understands kids and who they can warm to. An instructor who can give each kid a good amount of attention and who can make it all a bit of fun. And it needn't be too expensive - 100 Euro for 3 hours of tuition for a small group of 3 is what I've just paid. That's about 11 Euro per hour per person. And the instructor we used in La Clusaz last March was only 47 Euro per hour for a groups of 2 (they paid 47 euro each for a 2 hour lesson). And in small groups like this then the kids/adults can get so much out of it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
petemillis, Agree fully but i have to remember it is the child's holiday as well and not just a learning experience. Mine, when asked what ski school for next year she would like it was hands down Magic in Motion !!! (a great friendly french instructor but with english kids to chat to)
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
admin, our kids are on hols 21.03 - 08.04.08.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
richmond, Ours are the same
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Perhaps the first week in April may overlap everyones hols. I'll have to give it a miss though, as I won't have any kids anymore! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Helen Beaumont, you can have mine, just give me a delivery address. Please.
BTW, I think it unlikely that we'd be available for the proposed bash, but you never know. The daughter'll probably be rowing (as in oars not as in squabble, but there again ...) somewhere.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 28-02-07 12:27; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
skimottaret,
| Quote: |
| Agree fully but i have to remember it is the child's holiday as well and not just a learning experience. |
Agree fully too, which is why I would never fob the kids off to ski-school for the whole week. When I'm away with the Mrs PeteMillis and the kids, we want to spend time with the kids. If that means spending a lot of time just hanging out on the nursery slopes, or sledging, or having snowball fights, or eating and chatting, or not leaving the chalet until late morning then so be it. Last week I got a brilliant few hours of grown-up skiing in I really appreciated and enjoyed it. It was a family holiday so to dispose of the kids would have been totally a horrible thing to do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
admin, less of the 'matronly' admin!!! You might get a sharp ski pole where you least expect it!! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Have had exactly this issue with son (11) and daughter (9). The solution for the present is - race training for son, off piste guide for the rest of the family (including son when he can tear himself away from his beloved gates). Further potential solutions: holiday with (plastic club) race team; and spending more time in a village which has welcoming ski club (language probs acknowledged).
|
|
|
|
|
|
brian
brian
Guest
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Language isn't an issue with my pair 4 & 7yrs - both not un-confident, but the 7yr old is more outgoing than the 4yr old. Both went to German speaking ski schools, where the instructors had some (but not loads) of English, and all the other kids spoke German. Both have learned to ski - to the point that I find them amazing, and neither has complained about the lack of understanding. Additionally, both play happily alongside my Swiss friends pair, who speak German with no English. Within a week and without adult input all kids are trying stuff in the second language - it seems to start with numbers - hide and seek is a great game for this, and then progresses - give it another 3 or 4 years and I think each will be understandably fluent in the others language.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
easiski, All so true, why oh why don't schools teach conversation first and Grammar/written second?
Also why do we still insist on only teaching languages from 11 years old?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
why don't they teach languages AT ALL??
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have noticed a real change in attitutude to learning/lessons. I think for us it has been age related and would be interested to know if others have noticed anything similar.
2 years ago, my then 13 yr old messed around like anything in her lessons and they were a real waste of time. She just did her own thing with the 2 other 13 yr old girls in the group. Now, 2 years on as a 15 year old, she really wanted to improve and learn and wanted to practice the things she had learned in the lessons. She was interested in the technical/theoretical aspects (and could understand what it meant) as well as being interested in the actual skiing.
I'm not sure how much my 11 yr old would concentrate on what she was being told and she would probably want less technical, more guided approach to lessons.
There has been a noticeable transition (maturity?) for us.
A key component to the enjoyment factor for kids is having kids of the right age and sex alongside them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Race camp ticks all the boxes: get to ski fast; plenty of children the same age/sex/with similar obsession (skiing fast); top class coaching in how to ski better (=faster, when you're 11); bankrupts the parents; bragging rights on return; and loads and loads of fun (it's not all gates, honest, they do go in the park and off piste, and 'free' ski all over the place [fast].
However, I'm not recommending it - horribly expensive and leads to longer holidays so that there can be some family ski time before and after the allotted camp/race week.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| boredsurfin wrote: |
| Also why do we still insist on only teaching languages from 11 years old? |
If that. IIRC, a foreign language is not compulsory at GCSE, which is a shame. The problem is that education has been replaced by training, and relativley few people will actually need a foreign language in their working life, so why waste money teaching them?
poma, what's a race camp? Who organises them?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ray Zorro, My 2 (11&12) were noticibably more receptive in their lesson this year, perhaps next year will be better.
We have just skied with some friends and the 3 kids and father all had 3 x 1hr lessons at xsacpe before they went skiing. Due to financial reasons the kids had no lessons whilst in La Ros and the father had a 1 hr lesson. I and another gave the kids some pointers and spent about 2 hrs with them on technique (and safety). By the end of the week they were hooning safely around the resort even easily managing a moderate black with ease. Dad never got off the greens  . It opens up another question: Once they can snowplough do kids need lessons for the next 3-4 weeks or can they learn just by skiing?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Frosty the Snowman,
| Quote: |
| It opens up another question: Once they can snowplough do kids need lessons for the next 3-4 weeks or can they learn just by skiing? |
My 12 yr old had one lesson to start her off last year in which she learned to snowplough - mainly in a straight line. This year, she had no lesson. Instead she skied with he beginner 11 yr old ski friend and her family. She is now in a very dynamic position, confidently skiing reds (but needs mogul training!), and parallel turning (very little, if any, stem remaining). Her downfall though - which I think is very serious and perhaps time with an instructor would have resolved - is her lack of a "safety cell" and spatial awareness. She follows people too close and crashes into them when they fall/stop/change direction unexpectedly. She had 3 crashes that I witnessed, and others that I didn't. She slammed into the back of Wendy, our host for the week. Wendy's ski was pushed out from beneath her while she was stopped on the side of the piste, ripping the muscle in her left calf. She is now hobbling around unable to ski for a few days just at time friends have gone over to join them for the week. Every time I or Mrs PeteMillis tell her that she needs to ski more defensively we get the typical 12 yr olds reply of "shut up" muttered under her breath.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
petemillis, sounds like she needs lessons!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
petemillis, Have you tried threatening to remove skiing priviliges if she doesn't mend her ways?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
cathy, yep, she's getting a lesson or 3 next time!
geri, dreading it, she'll be just like Mrs Pete "I can stop in 1/4 the distance of anyone else when it's wet and icy" Millis
Megamum, yes, but this was a really tricky situation to deal with when we were away because a) this is one of the only activities that she has really got on well with, b) it was better for both us with the other younger kids if she was off with her "ski friend". Since coming back though it has been made clear that she needs to work towards earning the next trip, and if things don't improve then she'll be missing out. She is very well behaved at the moment!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
richmond,
| Quote: |
what's a race camp?
|
the best way yet discovered of spending vast quantities of money
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
richmond,
but if you're intent on parting with your remaining 'disposable' income, then have a look at the likes of DHO or Kandahar - I can let you have contact details if the notion of poverty appeals ...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
poma, richmond, There are cheaper alternatives to Kandahar
check out this link for various other clubs, the british championships are on this april in meribel and some of the clubs are offering race camps prior to the races...
http://www.barsc.net/index.html
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
the camps do all seem to come in at around the same approximate figures though ...
Usually there seem to be camps before and during the New Year (BARSC) races - les Menuires; a camp at half term; and before and during the British (Meribel) and English (PsV) races at Easter, along with a summer glacier camp which will involve heresies such as football, hiking and climbing as well as skiing. We've found some of the camp dates don't coincide with our school holidays, haven't worked out whether that's because we have weird school holidays or whether the authorities have incorrect information (the British start 3 days before we break up!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
poma, i think the sno club has training only at £45 a day which sounds pretty good to me....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
it does!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
What's the sno club?
Like others on this thread I'm looking to stretch my kids skiing, and would be interested in specific teenage orientated classes - either off-piste, park or racing. The race camps seem too expensive and intense.
Suggestions please
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
