 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I'm just waiting for SZK to turn up!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| I'm just waiting for SZK to turn up! |
Why, does he know how to fix Alfa's?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| DB wrote: |
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| I'm just waiting for SZK to turn up! |
Why, does he know how to fix Alfa's? |
I've not managed to sit in the back seat of my Alfa yet. Linds did the other week, but then again she's not the biggest person in the universe.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
[quote="Wear The Fox Hat"]
| Spyderman wrote: |
| the manufacturer's put the mark on the Ski to align with the mark on the boot for the purpose of mounting bindings, so that when force is applied to the ski at that point the sidecut, flex pattern & torsional flex is being used to it's optimum efficiency. |
| Quote: |
No they don't!
It's not about applying a force "AT THAT POINT". It's about having a standard place to mount the binding on the ski based on the centre of the boot, not the centre of force or centre of arc or anything else. |
Exactly, my point it is based on the centre of the boot, which in turn is mounted on the ski at the point of optimum efficiency.
| Quote: |
| Go back a few years to the old K2 skis that had a mounting mark for the front of the boot. That wasn't because they thought the front of the boot was where it was happening, but because they decided that it might have been a better place to mark the ski from. |
Sorry, but I though we were discussing modern equipment and technique.
| Quote: |
| If you want to take a different look at it, consider what part of your foot lines up with the mid point of the boot sole. You'll probably find it's about 3-4cm behind the ball of your foot. |
Yes, I'd say that was about were the arch of my foot was.
| Quote: |
| Now, stand bare foot, and tell me how much of your weight is acting through there - the answer is very little - you're at the arch of your foot - there's a gap! |
I don't ski barefoot, I ski in custom moulded ski boots with fully supportive custom moulded insoles, so yes, I can balance on the arch of my foot.
| Quote: |
| Take a look a bit further forward from there, and you'll hit the ball of your foot. That's where the pressure is when you are in a skiing position - try it - lean forward so there is very little weight on your heels. Where is the weight pushing down? Is it over the mid sole mark? um, no.[/ |
quote]
The balance point when I am skiing is focused on the arch of my foot, so that when I do pressure the ski, it is ideally though the mid point of the boot, therefore into the ski at the mark, utilising the whole ski to make a turn not just the tips. Um, Yes, with the footbeds in the boots it is perfectly possible to apply pressure over the mid sole mark. Give it a try and use the equipment in the way it was designed, rather than trying to adapt techniques from the past to modern equipment. You never know you might like it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Spyderman wrote: |
I can balance on the arch of my foot.
|
Congratulations.
Most of us mere mortals balance, walk, run, ski, etc using our toes, balls of feet and heels as the main points of contact, and the best ones to direct pressure through.
(which brings us back on topic - if you are in the back seat, you are allowing too much of your weight to act through your heels and not enough through your toes/BoF.)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Spyderman wrote: |
| The balance point when I am skiing is focused on the arch of my foot, so that when I do pressure the ski, it is ideally though the mid point of the boot, therefore into the ski at the mark, utilising the whole ski to make a turn not just the tips. Um, Yes, with the footbeds in the boots it is perfectly possible to apply pressure over the mid sole mark. Give it a try and use the equipment in the way it was designed, rather than trying to adapt techniques from the past to modern equipment. You never know you might like it. |
I wonder, do you work for the ESF? You've certainly got the attitude for it. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
At my most recent ski lesson (with Alan Hole at Christmas in Tignes) Alan was explaining turn initiation and progression and made a very clear point of getting us to 'press down' with the big toe and ball of the outer foot to initiate the turn, but then to use the 'whole of the instep' or arch to take the load once the turn was initiated.
|
When most skiers make a turn, they initiate the turn with the front of the foot and then as the turn progresses their balnce point shifts aft to the heel or further back. What Alan was doing by telling you to press on the big toe of the outer foot to initiate the turn was twofold, firstly to re-centre you from you heels and secondly the big toe is above the ski edge so it premotes an early edge change onto the new downhill ski.
Could you tell the difference when you were on the Arch of your foot as to how the skis were performing? as against when you were on the Balls/Heels?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I recently had a go on a Campbell balancer (courtesy of Spyderjon) and finished up with the bindings well forward of the marked point. I was surprised how sensitive the balancer was to a 0.5 cm change, although I'm told it's not so critical when actually skiing. Anyway, seemed to work very well in practice. From a bit of background reading it appears that various ski manufacturers are in disagreement and are certainly not consistent in regards to their markings. Some mark them way further back than others. Not that much scientific research seems to have been carried out on the subject, so the markings can only be considered a rough guide. Different skiers with the same boot size will also have differing optimum binding positions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Spyderman, TBH I couldn't really tell any difference in terms of the performance of the ski's, but it felt more 'secure' and less effort to be pushing with the arch/instep than just the toe. The feeling was a bit like when you are on a pedal cycle, the keen types use the ball of the foot, I tend to stick the pedal under the centre of my foot, it just feels more secure. But then I'm no expert cyclist, (or skier)
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
uktrailmonster, totally. The mark is just a guide. I may get myself re-balanced now I have new boots to see what difference they make - but my bindings are now 1.75cm forward of the mid sole mark, which means my BoF is where it should be in terms of the centre of the ski
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Quote: |
I wonder, do you work for the ESF? You've certainly got the attitude for it.
|
Would'nt touch ESF with a ten foot bargepole.
Just trying to say that to get the best out of modern equipment you should use the technique for which they were designed. I wasn't taking the P*** and no disrespect intended. From what Axaman has said the method is being taught in France, though sadly, not by a Frenchman by his name.
Back to the original thread, yes, if you're in the back seat, you're allowing too much pressure to act though your heels.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Spyderman wrote: |
| Just trying to say that to get the best out of modern equipment you should use the technique for which they were designed. |
Yes. I just think you and I are not agreeing on how it is designed to be used!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
I used to ski by applying pressure to the front of my foot to initiate the turn, then gradually moving the balance point to my heels. Seemed to work OK.
I then had 3 weeks training with Hugh Monney & Pete Silver-Gillespie, both world class BASI 1 trainers, who both introduced the technique to me of the balance point being over the ski boot mid sole mark, at all points thoughout the turn and all I can say is that it was a revellation and transformed my skiing to a different level. I would'nt say that I'm on that point the whole time but when I am the skis are transformed.
I would be very interested if you did give it a go for your views.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
Spyderman, I used to ski that way.
More recently (i.e. 3 weeks ago)I've worked with Stu Campbell, Weems Westfeld, Robin Barnes, Bob Barnes, Mike Rogan, Eric Timmerman & Jeb Boyd. I don't think any of them are BASI qualified. 
What I was working on was early edge engagement and using the full length of the ski to get the most out of it. Like running, football, tennis, or any other sport, by being on the balls of my feet, I was in a better place to react to changes without being thrown around as much.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Wear The Fox Hat, When you say you used to ski that way, was that the front to back method like I used to or the way I'm skiing now?
The way you're skiing now, how do you find the grip from the tails of the skis if you're pressuring the fronts continuously? don't you find the're a bit skiddy and tend to wash out at the tails?
I agree being on the balls of my feet make the skis more reactive as the tips are preloaded, but I find that they become twitchy and less stable and don't seem to want to track a smooth course.
What sort of ski were you using?
I shall give your method a go at the weekend.
Just looked up the crew you skied with, looks like the who's who of the PSIA, how did you manage that?
Don't know much about PSIA teaching methods, only BASI & CSIA both of which are very similar apart from the inclusion of the Plough-Parallel intermediate stage between Plough & Parallel turns in the BASI central theme, that is not used in Canada.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Spyderman, have you looked on here. Their acadamies have reasonably well qualified coaches.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
OMG - not sure I meant to cause all this!! 
But all good reading anyway guys, thanks.
IMT
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Quote: |
marc gledhill
Spyderman, have you looked on here. Their acadamies have reasonably well qualified coaches.
|
That's where I found them on 'Epic', sounds like a real result to ski with 7 great skiers. If the PSIA guys are anything like the CSIA or BASI coaches, I am very jealous.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| IMT wrote: |
OMG - not sure I meant to cause all this!!
But all good reading anyway guys, thanks.
IMT |
It just shows that skiing is constantly developing, with fresh ideas all the time. If you stand still you go backwards, you've only got to look at Formula 1. Ten years ago people were skiing with their legs together on 2m planks. I'll take new ideas on board, try them, if they improve my skiing, great, if they don't I'm sure someone will think of an idea that will.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Spyderman, you meen this lot.
Not only can they ski a bit. But they're nice people too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| marc gledhill wrote: |
Spyderman, you meen this lot.
Not only can they ski a bit. But they're nice people too. |
Yep.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I have a weight-back problem too.
There is a chapter in Harald Harb's new book on fore/aft balance. (Under £10.00 at Amazon)
I see he uses some of the same exercises as easiski. The teetering free ski.
He advocates pulling your feet back as the best way to move weight forward.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Tomatoes, tomatoes
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
IMT, A tip i got was that i needed to extend my body upwards to initiate the turn. A lot of peeps sit down thinking they are being dynamic but just get stuck in a bum low position.
Think "High THighs" to start the turn
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
jedster, i think you stole my king kong  line
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Weight back...you almost certainly mean arseback (the toilet position to a greater or lesser degree!).
Simple remedy is:
Stand up.
That will fix it, now you are ready to think about your arms, instep, shins...whatever.
Just stand up!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
JT, lol. pass me a cratefull.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
Spyderman, I used to ski that way.
More recently (i.e. 3 weeks ago)I've worked with Stu Campbell, Weems Westfeld, Robin Barnes, Bob Barnes, Mike Rogan, Eric Timmerman & Jeb Boyd. I don't think any of them are BASI qualified.
What I was working on was early edge engagement and using the full length of the ski to get the most out of it. Like running, football, tennis, or any other sport, by being on the balls of my feet, I was in a better place to react to changes without being thrown around as much. |
No mention of a lesson on exactly that topic at the EOSB - oh sorry forgot -that was with a european instructor.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Spyderman, I did say at the beginning that BASI say centre and I don't agree. the people I asked about this know more about dynamic movement than all of us put together (including all the BASI trainers in the world). I've found it works, they say it works and they did - (yes they really are world renowned) understand the question. If you were shifting to the heel then that's too far back. there is a racing technique, but we won't go there. Just wearing ski boots doesn't change the way the body works - it might change some of the way the foot works, but not the rest of it.
Saying nothing personal, but another trainer has been mentioned who skis with his back very straight and shoulders back in the "old School". At least I've tried to stop it!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
easiski, apologies, it was not meant as a slight of you, I was just talking about the stuff I was doing 3 weeks ago. Please try not to take everything as an insult. You might be surprised to learn that I'm not Mr Evil.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Spyderman wrote: |
The way you're skiing now, how do you find the grip from the tails of the skis if you're pressuring the fronts continuously? don't you find the're a bit skiddy and tend to wash out at the tails?
I agree being on the balls of my feet make the skis more reactive as the tips are preloaded, but I find that they become twitchy and less stable and don't seem to want to track a smooth course. |
No, it's not about staying on the balls of your feet, but it's about having them as your home place - your neutral position or however you want to describe it. From there I can push forward onto my toes, or back to my heels. The balls are the fulcrum.
| Spyderman wrote: |
| What sort of ski were you using? |
Head iXRC 1100SW - 170cm long (I'm 6ft and 195lb)
| Spyderman wrote: |
| Just looked up the crew you skied with, looks like the who's who of the PSIA, how did you manage that? |
I managed that cause I help run the events. (off to Aspen in a couple of weeks with the guys and a few other instructors where they'll be working with 70 students)
| Spyderman wrote: |
| Don't know much about PSIA teaching methods, only BASI & CSIA both of which are very similar apart from the inclusion of the Plough-Parallel intermediate stage between Plough & Parallel turns in the BASI central theme, that is not used in Canada. |
PSIA are fairly similar. You can find out more at their website... www.psia.org
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Easiski,
| Quote: |
Saying nothing personal, but another trainer has been mentioned who skis with his back very straight and shoulders back in the "old School". At least I've tried to stop it!
|
If I am thinking about the same trainer, he skis with his back straight because of a past severe back injury. He unfortunately cannot do anything more about it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
There is no one static stance at any static time.
Skiing is a dynamic sport. The movement of your Base of Support (feet, ankles, and therefore where you are standing) should continually change in the turn, terrain and conditions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
veeeight, yes, I agree, but I feel that if you are basing it around the arch of the foot, then you are already too far back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wear The Fox Hat, I agree with you! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Veeeight, I totally agree with you. Constant adjustments are neccessary, in order to maintain balance, the issue seems to be on what point we are aiming to balance on when skiing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
So here's my take: It's not a straightforward answer.
For me personally, it depends which pair of skis I am on, and what I'm aiming to do at that moment in time, and what I am feeling is happening under my feet.
Remember, this is also primarily a kinesthetic activity - so what one person is feeling on their equipment may not be the same as another.....
If I'm on my Mojo90's, which are mounted forward of the mid sole mark anyway, and if I'm in a situation where I want more pivoting in the blend, then I will pivot around the BoF. If I'm fanging it down a groomer and wanting the tails not to wash out, then I'll be edging, feeling the arch of my foot to hold that edge down into the snow.
If I'm on my iSuperShapes and really looking for performance and egde hold throuhout the turn, then it's BoF at turn engagement to get the tips biting, and moving to the heel progressively for tail grip throughout the turn.
But as easiski says above this is tending more outside the scope of your average early intermediate.
So what do I do for early intermediate clients? In general, bearing in mind that each person is different, if I'm working on a basic parallel with more pivot that edging, I'll use the BoF. If the clients are already starting to edge the skis on groomers then I'll get them to play around with the arch to hold that edge into the snow.
But still keeping the Base of Support highly mobile by constantly adjusting the ankles...
Must go, lots of clients to teach today. Powder skiing, I think, as we seem to have had 25cm of light fluffy stuff last night.......
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
, and acknowledging that you both know far more than I about what you are saying 
but adding my two pennorth anyway 
