 Poster: A snowHead
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| nbt wrote: |
Fair point, Gerry. as has been discussed in detail elsewhere (and re-hashed on the Kevin McClean thread in The Piste) on the I am still to be convinced of the role the ski club plays in the life of members from "the privinces"
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Are privincies outside lavatories for royalty ? Living up to your nickname NBT 
With something like 1 million going skiing every year from UK and 27,500 members, SCGB isn't really playing a big role, regardless of where you live. For those who are in, they must feel happy. For the rest, they don't know or don't want to know.
Their web site is however IMO still a significant source of good info - even without active forums - but that's another well-stretched thread.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| nbt wrote: |
| THere are lots of flight from places like Bristol, southampton, east midlands etc just in england : surely that majority of the population would find it more convenient to go to such an aiport rather than London to get the train? |
That would be an interesting one to argue. For those living in the United Kingdom, it may well be necessary to fly - trains don't go from Belfast to London, for example. Equally, if you're talking about travelling from parts of the UK to get to ski resorts, it is frequently necessary to go via London airports as there isn't great enough demand for, say, direct flights from Aberdeen to Innsbruck 4 times a day.
I'm glad to hear that you do use public transport in this country, and I'd hope that if it does improve, that more people would consider it for their ski holidays in Eurpoe.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I remember deliberately being green and taking the train to Gatwick - despite having to lug skiing kit (I took skis in those days) between Kings X and Kings X Thamesmead. On retun, I landed late (about 9 pm) at Gatwick, and was told there were no trains running anywhere near home. So I didn't get home that night, and had to fork out for overnight accommodation.
Since then, I have taken the clear message, and gone to the airport by car.
Slightly OT, since this thread is about travelling by train full distance. But it is another aspect of public transport in the UK.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| nbt wrote: |
however, I don;t see that "not living near a major international airport" equates to the snow train being a valid choice. THere are lots of flight from places like Bristol, southampton, east midlands etc just in england : surely that majority of the population would find it more convenient to go to such an aiport rather than London to get the train? |
It all depends on whether you can get flights from those airports though. From my own point of view it's only this year that Flybe have put on flights from Soton -> Chambery that make a long weekend feasible.
But when it comes to arranging flights and accomodation for 10, when 6 are going from Soton and 4 from Manchester, it's just easier to use a holiday company rather than DIY. So then you are limited to where the holiday companies want you to fly from, which from Southampton generally means Gatwick and not Soton or Bournemouth.
Gatwick means early morning flight, usually on a Saturday, so not much sleep on Friday as it takes 1 1/2 hours to get to airport and you've got to get there a couple of hours ahead. Flight is usually delayed. Faffing around once you get there as they wait for other passengers from other flights then a 3 hour transfer if it's Lyon or Geneva to the sorts of places you can get the train to. By the time you add it all together it's about 11 or 12 hours. You've are tired as you haven't had much sleep and it's late afternoon so no chance of getting near any snow.
The train means sneaking off work a couple of hours early on the Friday to get up to Waterloo in good time. Get loaded up with beers. No need to change stations. If you take the sleeper from Paris you can get your head down for a couple of hours. Most importantly you arrive early morning and can get on the snow that day and start having fun, instead of being stuck in airports and transfer coaches. OK the train might take 14-15 hours all in, but it's mostly time spent reading, drinking or sleeping instead of hanging around the most soul destroying places on the planet (airports).
In an ideal world though I'd fly from Soton, but I'll take the train over the trudge up to Gatwick any day of the week.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| nbt wrote: |
| Fair point, Gerry. as has been discussed in detail elsewhere (and re-hashed on the Kevin McClean thread in The Piste) on the I am still to be convinced of the role the ski club plays in the life of members from "the privinces" |
You might be interested to know that while I was repping in Whistler I skied with 30 people, 25 of whom came from up north.
So, there is no regional bias within the Ski Club that I can see. All the provinces are well represented judging by my real world experiences with the club.
However, let me take this opportunity to apologies publicly on the Ski Club's behalf for the fact that it was founded in, and continues to be based in, London. However, the Ski Club is currently engaged in the design and construction of a time machine as part of an ongoing project to get the Ski Club of Great Britain founded in 1901 by 12 coal miners from Barnsley. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
The total population is about 7.5 million. How many sweat their way into London by train every day I wonder?
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*About* the population of Switzerland. The Swiss rail system can reasonably be compared to NEtwork Southeast (as was). Still no real comparison.
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So (admirer of Swiss trains though I am) could it be that it just might be a bit easier to shift a few people around a relatively large area in plenty of time than to, in effect, shift your entire population in a small area within a few hours?
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The reason the swiss rail system works is more to do with the scheduling of trains than their capacity, as an example giong from a to b in switzerland will usually mean a regular trin at a set time each hour often from a set platform, say I want to go from Bern to Interlaken Ost, I know that from just after 8am till just after midnight the trains will leave from either platfrom 5, 6 or 7 at 26 mins past the hour, there may at busy times be extra trains as well so when I get to bern station I can head straight towards those platforms and just look at the notice when I get there to tell me which platform is next,
The timetables are arranged such that there is always time to clean down the trains and empty the rubish bins at each end oof the run, here in the uk we tend to run our trains on the JIT principle which means that a couple of minutes delay at the beginning of the day tends to grow as the day goes on leading to more passengers running late, let us not forget that in addition to the main lines the are hundreds of km of private railways in Switzerland that follow a timetable linked to the main line services as do the post coaches and lake steamers, although Switzerland may have no where near as large a population as the uk I would venture to suggest that their rail system is probably as complicated as our own, it just runs more efficiently
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
How many sweat their way into London by train every day I wonder?
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11 million I believe.
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The other thing with Swiss railways is the journeys have built in time for "catch up". Most trains on a journey of more than 1hr will have a 10 min stop at one of the stations, therefore should always be able to depart on time. Also, the trains travel slower than British ones (should!!), so tempory speed limits for engineering works and the like, have less of a drastic effect.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| D G Orf wrote: |
| say I want to go from Bern to Interlaken Ost, I know that from just after 8am till just after midnight the trains will leave from either platfrom 5, 6 or 7 at 26 mins past the hour, |
DG, I don't know if you've looked at this, but I know my dad got a bit of a shock. They're planning on changing the timetable 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Elizabeth B wrote: |
| The other thing with Swiss railways is the journeys have built in time for "catch up". Most trains on a journey of more than 1hr will have a 10 min stop at one of the stations, therefore should always be able to depart on time. Also, the trains travel slower than British ones (should!!), so tempory speed limits for engineering works and the like, have less of a drastic effect. |
That's probably just on the tourist or mountain routes or some other scheduling/routing concerns. It's not the case, for exampe, between Bern and Geneva. The only places I'm aware of it happening the reason is to sync' with other transport services, that's the same in Germany for that matter, we call it integrated transport 
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Elizabeth B, yep they change the timetable once a year, as they have to get the foreign trains incorporated into their system
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You know it makes sense.
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I can confirm the "JIT" principle of British trains and the lack of cleaning. Last Saturday a group of us had an evening out in Salisbury. Our train from Southampton was about 12 minutes late. Our return train was late by about the same. The return train was filthy and we recognised the rubbish from our outward trip. Obviously there was no time to either clean the train or to make up time when it turned around at Cardiff.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Is it any wonder that the British Public do not like travelling by public transport, I love travelling on the Swiss network and have been all over Switzerland using their network, their trains are comfortable, have luggage space, are clean and almost always run on time, not things that could be said about UK rail networks 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Elizabeth B wrote: |
| D G Orf wrote: |
| say I want to go from Bern to Interlaken Ost, I know that from just after 8am till just after midnight the trains will leave from either platfrom 5, 6 or 7 at 26 mins past the hour, |
DG, I don't know if you've looked at this, but I know my dad got a bit of a shock. They're planning on changing the timetable |
I think that's part of the new improvements they've just completed (the 2000 project or something).
Isn't the 11 million into London the total commute, also including the tube (and maybe other methods, too)?
There's a few things the Swiss railways do that makes a big difference, compared to UK:
1) It doesn't cost different amounts for the same journey. If I get a train with GNER or WAGN from Peterborough to London, it will cost me different amounts - I can't just buy a ticket and jump on the next train. Also, it costs (last time I travelled at "peak" hours in Switzerland anyway) the same whenever you travel, as opposed to in the UK where you have to buy different tickets at different prices for different times.
2) The timetable is generally pretty standard throught the day and the week as opposed to the UK. I think there are extra peak trains (when I commuted from Winterthur to Zurich it seemed that way), but generally if there's a 9:12 to Romanshorn, there'll be a 10:12, 11:12, etc. (or maybe two hourly).
3) They tend to run larger trains (slightly in some cases) less frequently which means less strain on the infrastructure and less knock-on delays.
4) Local stoppoers often get priority over long-distance expresses as the inter-regional (etc.) can make up their time on the long-distance stretches.
5) They decide on 15 year spending (maintenance & upgrade) plans and stick to them. The 2000 project was as a result of a national referendum.
6) Season tickets are cheaper. Though a one-off journey can be on a par with a UK one-off, the seaosn tickets are a lot cheaper. For the same amount of money as I spent on a season ticket between Cambridge and Letchworth (valid for only that specific journey) I could have got a ticket that gave me the sue of the full SBB system, some regular boat services, the buses in 35 cities and towns, one or two cable cars and discounts off the mountain railways (and probably the Post bus, too). Their half price ticket is the equivalent of the Network South east railcard (1/3 off, except weekdays when it's a minum fare of £10).
Plus the benefits mentioned elsewhere.
The big point though is point (5) and that's the reason why their system is better. The fact that it's smaller and carries less is mainly a budget factor.
I will say though, on some of their (older and local) services, their toilets can be pretty awful.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skanky, AFAIK it's 11 million commute into London daily by mainline Rail.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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admin, that must mean the population of London on a working day must be somewhere in the region 1/4 - 1/3rd of the population of the country.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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hmm - I don't know the figures but I assume that the 8 million? or so "Londoners" includes folk way out into the burbs. So a large proportion of the 11 million, if that is indeed the figure, are probably already there, so to speak. They're just moving from one bit to another.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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skanky, certainly feels like it amyway!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Alan Craggs, I'd have thought that less of that amount travel by rail (as opposed to tube). Also, if people are just moving short distances within London, it sort of dilutes the excuse that there's a lot more people on the trains making it that much more difficult to run as a system - as the passenger miles won't anywhere near as high as the 11 million numbers would suggest.
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According to this 2001 BBC News item the figure for daily rail travellers into London was 467,000. Even if we allow the same again each for users of tube trains, buses, cars, etc., we are a very long way from 11 million London commuters.
Off Topic - I see the Index Page now has a link to the SCGB web site. Nice one, Admin. Don't suppose they'll return the favour, do you? 
<<<< Edit - it doesn't open in a new window - if you're not careful when you close it, you'll lose your snowHeads connection and then all the 'new posts since last visit flags' will be reset >>>>
{{{{{{{{ Edit 2 - it's been fixed }}}}}}}}}}
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 9-08-04 7:11; edited 2 times in total
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kuwait_ian, yeah, I noticed that it didn't open a new window...but forgot to mention it 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
According to this 2001 BBC News item the figure for daily rail travellers into London was 467,000. Even if we allow the same again each for users of tube trains, buses, cars, etc., we are a very long way from 11 million London commuters.
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That makes a bit more sense, I reckon.
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| kuwait_ian wrote: |
| the figure for daily rail travellers into London was 467,000. |
One question... Why do they all get on to the train I'm getting, and most of them are in the carriage I get on, and suffer from personal hygene issues...?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Wear The Fox Hat, it's a plot. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
the figure for daily rail travellers into London was 467,000
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Well I stand corrected: I wonder where I got that idea from perhaps I was thinking of "unique visitors"
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admin, a touch of SCGBitis
PS TVM for fixing the link - much better now. Keep taking the tabloids.
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