 Poster: A snowHead
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| majkkali wrote: |
@luigi, @HilbertSpace, @DavidYacht, @munich_irish, @johnE, @DCG, @Whitegold, @T Bar,
what about La Clusaz? Any good? |
I've not personally been, but I've skied nearby in St Gervais/Megeve and Les Carroz/Flaine, so kinda know the area.
It's a traditional French village and the Aravis mountain range backdrop is dramatic.
The issue is it's quite low by French standards at 1100m. Friends regularly visit Chatel at a similar altitude at Xmas/New Year and have experienced rain at resort level in recent years. Not totally snowsure at resort level, so there's a reason it's cheaper!
It looks like there are nursery slopes at mid-mountain, so I'm sure there will be snow there. I'm not sure where the Ski School meeting point is, but ideally you need to be near it or a lift that will take you to it. Though I can't imagine they will expect first-time beginners to take a chairlift on their own.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A while since I went to La Clusaz, but I have friends who are/were repeat visitors. It is low, but the quid pro quo is some gentle slopes.
You could buy a copy of where to Ski and Snowboard for France which gives good guidance, even if a few years out of date. And star rates different resorts for different levels of skiers.
For first time skiers I would give a lot of thought to how you want to be instructed, group or private lessons, and this might be my driver. If you are going for half a day of instruction every day, perfectly placed nursery slopes need not be a priority if you have an instructor to get you there. In this respect Meribel might be considered, where there are some really good ski schools, but a bit of a sclep to the Rhodos area.
Ref. France vs Austria or anywhere else for that matter, the most important aspect is that you have the best possible experience on your first ski trip, so as other posters have suggested, why I might choose a particular resort is completely different to why you might, I just think you should not be too blinkered.
But I think that the point is that some high profile resorts might be lost on you. AHD would be high on my list of suggested resorts for what you are planning.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| majkkali wrote: |
| @HilbertSpace, nah Norway is a no. I want beautiful Alps, in Norway the views aren’t that great from what I’ve seen. Plus it gets dark like reaaaaly early. |
You get beautiful Alps in Norway too. And fjords. Plus the best place I've been for learners (and that's in 25 years of looking/noticing via 200+ resorts). Oh, and in answer to your original question: ADH!
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Why not look at ucpa?
For beginners it's perfect and you get to meet others in the same boat. If you hurry you find a twin/ double room so you don't share. Otherwise bansko is good that time of year! You don't need a fancy mountain just snow, skis and beer!
https://www.action-outdoors.co.uk/
They are UK booking agents for ucpa which include pass, lessons, bed and half board. Alpe dhuez was quiet for apres but was nice getting around. Lots of greens and some wide runs. Not been to Zermatt so can't comment. Good luck
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 15-11-24 16:20; edited 1 time in total
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@majkkali, if only 2 of you and you’re going w/c 6 or 13 January, I wouldn’t bother looking seriously for a deal until just after Christmas.
Then you’ll know what early season snow conditions are like. You’ll have a rough idea of the weather forecast for the next week or so. There’ll be lots of discounted package deals.
Do more research of the different broad characteristics of a ski trip in different countries, France, Austria, Italy, Andorra. Sometimes you need to drill down an extra level, eg in Italy, the Dolomiti areas have a different feel to the area near the French border (Sestriere, La Thuile, etc).
In Austria, the area around Salzburg is somewhat different to the Arlberg.
Take into account cost, travel convenience, instruction quality and convenience, ambience, food, apres ski, scenery, non-skiing activities.
Come up with a long list of areas, villages, locations within an area, that would suit you most. Only then look at the deals on offer. Then do a shortlist of 3 or 4 specific accommodations and ask again on here for pros and cons.
Based on those mentioned so far, personally I’d forget Zermatt, Les Deux Alpes, Les Arcs 1600, Wengen and La Plagne.
La Clusaz a possible but I think you could do better.
Possibles by country I’d include:
Alpe-D’Huez, Vallandry, Montgenevre, Serre Chevalier, Courchevel Moriond (1650).
Obergurgl, Lech-Zurs, Obertauern, Saalbach-Hinterglemm.
Colfosco, Madonna di Campiglio, Cervinia, Val di Fassa, Cortina possibly.
Saas Fee? If a very god deal on offer.
Soldeu
Lots of variety there but with some very different costs, travel convenience, ambience, etc.
Personally I think you’d get a better all round deal with a hotel or chalet package with half board included. Unless you’re very keen on shopping, prep, cooking and washing up. Or have plenty spare cash to eat out most of the time.
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| PeakyB wrote: |
@majkkali, if only 2 of you and you’re going w/c 6 or 13 January, I wouldn’t bother looking seriously for a deal until just after Christmas.
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It's true everything that @PeakyB says, if you have the nerve to hold out, there are big discounts on Tour Operator package deals those January weeks, and they get bigger as the travel date approaches, so if you have the nerve to hold out, you can bag a bargain. Though you will tend to be left with things that others haven't been willing to pay full price for, they may be badly located or not so popular resorts, or places where the snow isn't great, so cheap doesn't always mean a bargain and you need to be selective. Also, since Brexit there aren't so many chalets to fill as there once were.
My first ski holiday was a chalet deal to Selva Val Gardena in Italy for £169pp, inc flights, transfers, room, breakfast and 6 evening meals with wine, but that was back in March 1999! We booked a few days before we went, so I guess it was a bit of a surprise trip, though we had been discussing going skiing and Mrs L was fully onboard. Selva isn't ideal for beginners and the chalet was a bus ride and an uphill walk away from nursery slopes, but we did it and had a lot of fun with our group for 4 mornings, falling over and laughing at each others mistakes. That's why I'm keen to stress finding somewhere close to where you will learn, as that's the thing I could have done better with my experience. The runs around the village are quite steep, so on the 5th and last day of ski school they took us in a bus up to the Sella Pass and we had a whole day with the instructor, gradually working our way back to the village on some amazingly scenic runs, tried our first red too, visited our instructors secret mountain hut and tasted his grappa, had lunch as a group at a mountain restaurant and were really showed us what skiing can be like after the hard work of learning the technique. I've not looked back since. Not having to worry about shopping and making food after an exhausting day of learning was a real treat too!
I hope you can find something similar!! 
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@majkkali,
Firstly I'd say most people as you can see have slightly differing ideas as to what is ideal, and what suits one person does not always suit another.
I've never had a skiing holiday I haven't enjoyed and I've probably averaged around three weeks a year over more than 40 years. The chances of wherever you choose working out are pretty good.
I will lay out my own prejudices as to why I personally might avoid certain places and why however my reasons may not be what's important to you and they could work out fine.
Firstly you are planning on early Jan. I have been many times then, however at this time not all resorts have had high levels of snow and in some years some will have received very little. In recent years there seems to have been a tendency for lower resorts to have established a base of snow and then having this washed away by rain particularly in more Western French resorts with a more maritime climate. I would tend to avoid these La Clusaz is one.
Equally very high resorts if the weather is poor can be very unpleasant places to ski if their skiing is above the tree line. Trees give shelter and vastly improve visibility, a full week of poor weather would be very unlucky a couple of days would not be uncommon. Personally I would avoid resorts that don't have som decent access to skiing at tree level as well as above.
Next there is the question of style of resort. This is even more a matter of personal taste and generates some heated discussions on this forum.
There are a large number of resorts mainly but not exclusively built in France which were purpose built for skiing in the 20th century. Generally they provide superb access to excellent and extensive ski fields often within a very short walk of your door. However if you are going partly as a romantic time, for many including myself these resorts lack charm and interest when you are not skiing which potentially
can be for a couple of days if the weather is poor.
There are also resorts that have developed from communities some quite large which do give access to skiing but often at low altitude where the snow is less reliable. Many Austrian resorts are like this.
In addition there are quite a few resorts that are both traditional with charm at an altitude where snow is more reliable , as you have discovered with Zermatt these tend to command premium prices.
My own prejudice at this time of year is that there is a lot to be said for some of the dolomite resorts where the snow making is excellent and tend to have less of the warmer Atlantic weather of the French resorts at similar altitude meaning less natural snow but better man made and some very attractive scenery.
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Oh here we go - all the random resort selection mongers are crawling out of the woodwork.
Your first choices were great - Zermatt is beautiful but not that set for learners.
Alpe d'Huez is a perfect choice for a first trip - it's excellent for any trip actually.
It has good nursery areas, a great network of green pistes, so a beginner can feel that theyre covering ground and the progression is as good as anywhere in the world. Yoi can even have a great afternoon at Folie's and get down by lift.
They have beginner lift pass options too
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@majkkali, as others have said, most resorts are fine for beginners. To really get the most of a holiday I'd agree with the advice of 6 days of morning ski school - definitely factor that in.
Personally, for a first trip I'd travel with a tour operator who organises everything, including flights, transfers, ski hire, ski pass and lessons. Crystal are pretty good for this.
I'd strongly recommend Andorra from what I saw of the ski schools there. You could easily do half board in Andorra for your budget. It's not "the alps" but then neither is the Trentino Region 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| sussexskibore wrote: |
Alpe d'Huez is a perfect choice for a first trip - it's excellent for any trip actually.
It has good nursery areas, a great network of green pistes, so a beginner can feel that theyre covering ground and the progression is as good as anywhere in the world. Yoi can even have a great afternoon at Folie's and get down by lift.
They have beginner lift pass options too |
It's also above the tree line and not a particularly appealing romantic town which appears to be part of the OP's specification.
It might do fine as you say the skiing is excellent for beginners but it may not suit.
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You can't have everything - down in the treelines can mean poo-poo snow now
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You know it makes sense.
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I've only just spotted (from the other thread) that the intention may be to learn to snowboard rather than ski. That may change things a bit, as beginner snowboard school isn't generally as readily available as ski school. OTOH, if a ski school takes your booking, there's a reasonable chance you'll be in a very small group. If you're looking to learn to snowboard it might be worth asking more specific advice on that, including where is suitable and has good lessons. @stevomcd may be able to advise.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| sussexskibore wrote: |
| You can't have everything - down in the treelines can mean poo-poo snow now |
And above the tree line can be poo poo visibility, in some resorts you can indeed have both.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Les Arcs/La Plagne/Val D - Yep for sure - ski resorts are like Marmite.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Can't resist, as a random resort selection monger... 
Taking into account that it's a birthday trip, for a couple, to snowboard, first timers, I'd consider Saalbach Hinterglemm.
Lots of trips with tour operators but easily doable if you want to organise transport etc yourself.
Seen Penhab widely recommended for snowboard lessons, but plenty of other schools.
Nice smart hotels for a 'treat' trip, including half board with good food, nice village to wander. Bus down to Zell am See if you want a day off in town.
Lots of beginner/improver slopes all over the mountain.
Good restaurants, maybe you could get to the chicken man by the end of the week.
Naked wellness areas which may or may not appeal. 
It'll be quieter the January weeks but still lots of party for celebratory nights out.
Decent chance of good snow, and excellent snow making, plus a brilliant and modern lift system.
What more could you possibly need?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Totally disagree with the comments re Les Duex Alpes as an unsuitable beginners resort . . . my kids had a great time there and developed pretty quickly!
Yes it is topsy turvey in terms of topography / altitude however the majority of the green / poma lift accessed nursery slopes between the Jandri / Diable lifts are very easy to access - we stayed in the Aalborg (which used to be a Neilson Chalet Hotel) which is directly on the nursery slope -the poma lifts are literally 5yds from the hotels bootroom / rental shop door and the ski school meeting point is also very close - we could watch the kids from the bar terrace as they wizzed up and down all afternoon after lessons etc.
Another benefit is the topsy turvey nature itself - there are a significant number of wide cruisy blues with mellow pitches right from the top down, as well as the green runs on Cretes, meaning more confident beginners can get the whole gondola / chairlift experience once they've picked up the basics and also ski on the better snow.
Yes the previous silly narrow / rutted green home run track was a deathtrap back in the day, as is the more recent blue that can still be intimidating to some when it becomes a busy slushy bumpy 'home run', however this can easily be negated by getting on the gondola and downloading in style with zero worries . . . personally for a first trip I wouldn't overlook L2A . . .
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Belch, I would suggest that whatever the merits of L2A for beginners skiing it singularly fails on the romantic ambience which is part of the remit.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@luigi, ah, you learn something everyday, although to me those mountains are the Dolomites and are far more spectacular than the Alps in the Geneva area and Switzerland etc.
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Double post 
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 15-11-24 23:39; edited 1 time in total
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| sugarmoma666 wrote: |
| @luigi, ah, you learn something everyday, although to me those mountains are the Dolomites and are far more spectacular than the Alps in the Geneva area and Switzerland etc. |
The Dolomites are a mountain range that forms part of the Alps, just as you have the Hohe Tauern in Austria or the Mont Blanc Massif in France. They are not separate, but they do have a peculiar geological composition, hence they are given that name after a French geologist Dolomieu that first studied them. It's believed they were once a coral reef under a warm tropical sea before they were thrust upwards towards the sky!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolomites
Apologies for the off-topic
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@sussexskibore,
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Oh here we go - all the random resort selection mongers are crawling out of the woodwork.
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Don't know how you reach that conclusion. Mostly opinions after interpreting the OPs needs and preferences, based on an understanding and, almost always, experience of a village and area.
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Your first choices were great - Zermatt is beautiful but not that set for learners.
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So, as one of the first choices, Zermatt is great? Oh but it's not good for learners 
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@Belch, you make some good points about Les Deux Alpes as an option for beginners and low intermediates.
You can be almost certain of picking up late deals there at very low prices in the first half of January.
I think there are reasons for that but, if the OP wanted a bargain, it's an option.
You can always put rose tinted ski goggles on to make it look more romantic and you should have plenty cash left to buy a fresh bunch of flowers and fancy chocolates.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@ElzP,
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Taking into account that it's a birthday trip, for a couple, to snowboard, first timers, I'd consider Saalbach Hinterglemm.
Lots of trips with tour operators but easily doable if you want to organise transport etc yourself.
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Especially as a snowHead, @Tatmanstours, has very well located self catering accommodation and a wealth of local knowledge to share. Whether there's availability in early January???
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@PeakyB, wrote:
“@ElzP,
Quote:
Taking into account that it's a birthday trip, for a couple, to snowboard, first timers, I'd consider Saalbach Hinterglemm.
Lots of trips with tour operators but easily doable if you want to organise transport etc yourself.
Especially as a snowHead, @Tatmanstours, has very well located self catering accommodation and a wealth of local knowledge to share. Whether there's availability in early January???”
@PeakyB, Thanks for that. And yes, there is availability.
“ Personally I think you’d get a better all round deal with a hotel or chalet package with half board included. Unless you’re very keen on shopping, prep, cooking and washing up. Or have plenty spare cash to eat out most of the time.”
Not generally - the substantial saving over the cost of a hotel or chalet normally provides “plenty spare cash to eat out most of the time”.
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@tatmanstours, thanks. I was referring not entirely to the overall cost of the trip, but also the convenience, when you’re beginners, of having a lot of things organised for you.
That said, I’d still expect big discounts on package deals those low season weeks.
I vaguely remember my first week being quite tiring and wouldn’t have fancied self catering.
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You know it makes sense.
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| T Bar wrote: |
| @Belch, I would suggest that whatever the merits of L2A for beginners skiing it singularly fails on the romantic ambience which is part of the remit. |
Agreed its not got the Austrian tinsel town / Hansel & Gretl style ambience (has any of France?) and its not a current resort of choice for me either but I've been a few times with beginners and tbf overall its been great . . . town can be a bit chav in places but there's also some nice trad french restaurants / quiet spots . . . . . tbf if they're both beginners I believe hard core sport 'romance' post apres may be off the cards for the week anyway . . .
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Just had a thought - if you want easy skiing / great english speaking instruction / a quiet resort with polite skiers then Trysil in Norway might be worth considering?
Hire a nice little shack with a hot tub - stock up on booze at the airport prior - bring your own strawberries and baby oil - you might just get lucky . . ! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@PeakyB, I’m with you, if you’re comparing package holidays versus independent travel. Some people like to have everything organised for them (even if the reality is that it’s not difficult to do it yourself).
I’m really just making the points that, if preferring the independent/self-catering option over a package/hotel, (a) you don’t need to worry about having “spare cash” for eating out, as usually you will be saving considerably overall, and (b) whilst a first week of skiing may be “tiring”, there may be advantages in choosing your own home from home right next to the nursery slopes, and being able to choose when and what you eat.
On that last point, there will no doubt be some ski resorts, where the cost and inconvenience of not having hotel food provided within a package may be prohibitive. But others (like my own) where it is a positive advantage to be able to choose between a flexible range of options. Those include cheap and easy pub meals available all night long, pizza deliveries or takeaways, or an eclectic array of interesting and reasonably-priced restaurants - all only a short walk away.
I have recent, second-hand experience of several groups of friends, who found their hotel food not to their taste (too boring, too fancy, or just terrible), and spent their evenings sampling the different restaurants.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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“ I've heard borders are not so keen on drags...”
Perhaps they lack border control?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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There will be lots of students in L2A from 11th to 19th January btw!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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For a first trip you don’t need a big resort. You will only be using a few of the green and blue pistes but you still pay for the larger lift system.
Pick somewhere small and pretty which can also be really cheap at that time of year.
Lots of small French and Austrian destinations will be below £750 half board in a package holiday. Let a tour operator take the strain for you also.
Worth taking a look at Club Med also. They look expensive initially but when you consider that the6 are all inclusive, full board plus lessons A MUST HAVE and lift pass they can be great value.
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@Pasigal, yeah I’ve decided I will go with my original idea - Zermatt. Might not go for another ski trip for a long time so why skimp. And I’m sure it’s just as good for beginners as Alpe D’Huez. The thing that convinced me is a lot of non-skiing activities in Zermatt like winter hiking which seem to be missing in Alpe d’Huez / L2A. We’ll be doing that as well, not just skiing. Thanks!
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sun 17-11-24 20:36; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@majkkali, according to the On the Snow website summary, 22% of pistes in Zermatt are graded blue (intermediate). 66% red (strong intermediate/advanced). 12% black (expert).
Good luck.
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FAQ
BUT - those long drag lifts! They made me question my choices and I've heard borders are not so keen on drags... 