 Poster: A snowHead
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My car has an electronic warning of "loss of pressure". Twice that has gone off, once in France. I've pulled off the road at the next opportunity, had a walk around, kicked the tyres (yes I know....  ) found no problem, and had experienced no steering problem, so just pressed the button to re-set and carried on. I always used to have a tyre pressure gauge in the car, in the olden days, but don't have one now (must get one). When this happened in France I looked carefully at the next big services but there were no tyre pressure gauges to be found, so perhaps people don't generally have them, these days. Modern cars are wondrously reliable. A lot of the precautions we used to take are probably not necessary now. Many years ago (I was 23 so it must have been 1970...) I did a long "road trip" in the States with an American guy. We had driven hundreds of miles, at high speeds, one day and the following morning I suggested we should check the oil and tyre pressures. He was incredulous, and thought my suggestion very quaint.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If I were the OP, I would take the space-saver. However, should they decide to leave it at home, they would be in the same position as hundreds of thousands of other cars on the road - no spare wheel and not on runflats (which were originally fitted to allow for exactly this scenario, of course).
IME, almost all punctures are slow enough to be repaired temporarily with a can of gunk and a compressor. If you have a genuine ‘blow out’ at speed (fortunately, extremely rare), the flat tyre will probably be the least of your problems
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 11-03-24 11:07; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I think you are over thinking it OP. Blow outs are very, very rare. Just do you your usual checks on the tyres a few days before you get off. Check air pressure, tread depths, signs of damage etc.
If you get a slowish puncture, then aires in France are fairly common. Much more so than in the UK. Chances are, even with a very low 10-15psi in the tyre you could nurse it to the next aire or even junction to get off the motorway. Just go slow, stick your hazards on and nurse it off the motorway.
If it gets to the point where all the air has escaped and the weight of the car is all on the metal rim (either because of a sudden blow out or over time) then you'll have to stop. As others have said, the hard shoulder is an incredibly dangerous place, in ANY country. Pull as far over to the side as you can, hazards on, warning triangle out and hi-vis on. It doesn't matter what the weather is, do not wait in the car. Get out and remove yourselves to the other side of the barrier. Take an umbrella and waterproofs/warm clothing with you for this very instance (but chances are, you'll have that anyway as going on a ski holiday!).
The only time I would even consider a tyre change on a motorway would be if I was pulled into a refuge away from the running lanes or sometimes you get the hard shoulder under a bridge that has a concrete divider between it and the running lanes. I know I can change a tyre quickly, so that would allow be to get moving again to a place where I could check everything in a safer place.
Whilst the French do have much better road discipline and will move over into the outside lane to pass a broken down vehicle on the hard shoulder, I still wouldn't fancy changing a tyre on the hard shoulder.
I'm a firefighter and despite our big red trucks, blue flashing lights, safety measures and high vis clothing I've lost count of the amount of close calls on the hard shoulder when we have attended incidents. A general mix of poor driving ability, lack of concentration and also people just not giving a flying fig means that I'd rather go into a building fire any day of the week over any type of motorway job that hasn't had a full lane closure. Just a few weeks ago, we lost 2 fire appliances when a recovery lorry hit not one, but two of our trucks whilst attending an incident on the M2. Fortunately, there was only 1 minor injury but if one of my colleagues would have been getting any tools out of a locker at that point we would have had a fatality.
It's odd that it's much safer to be travelling at 70mph on a motorway than it is to be stationary.
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@Fridge03, my dad worked for the AA - retired as head of the road services operation in the Midlands. I remember him coming home from the funeral of one of "his" patrols who had been killed on the hard shoulder. He was not an emotional man but he was really upset. The majority of breakdown call-outs are for flat tyres.
My daughter was in a car with her mother in law a couple of months ago - pretty new, and well-maintained, Volvo (her father in law is conscientious about such things). They had a blowout - sudden and violent - on the A3 but fortunately the road wasn't busy and her mother in law kept control and was able to get the car into some kind of lane/gateway. They called their breakdown service and were told it would be some hours. They were heading to an important appointment so started getting stuff out to change the wheel themselves. But it's a big, heavy, car and they were very grateful when a farmer came along in a tractor and did it for them in the twinkling of an eye. They had a full size spare in good condition.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Fridge03 wrote: |
| Whilst the French do have much better road discipline |
Jeez, don't do that, I've just sprayed coffee all over my laptop !
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Red Leon wrote: |
If I were the OP, I would take the space-saver. However, should they decide to leave it at home, they would be in the same position as hundreds of thousands of other cars on the road - no spare wheel and not on runflats (which were originally fitted to allow for exactly this scenario, of course).
IME, almost all punctures are slow enough to be repaired temporarily with a can of gunk and a compressor. If you have a genuine ‘blow out’ at speed (fortunately, extremely rare), the flat tyre will probably be the least of your problems |
It's mostly this (excepting any obvious immediate strike damage incidents ) low pressure that leads to classic "blow out" the tire run effectively outside it's load range by having pressure too low causes excessive flex in the carcass, building to structural failure as the tire delaminated through getting too hot.
Generally (very) 20 psi a reasonable threshold under which many tires become vulnerable, also considering loading with passengers and luggage is likely at peak for holiday trip, consistent running under which will very quickly build uncontrolled temperature that the structure will not adequately tolerate.
Most pragmatic "containment" with inspection and reasonable observations should avoid this scenario. Not 100 %, but stacking the odds in favour of the risk down the line.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Fridge03 wrote: |
| Whilst the French do have much better road discipline |
Jeez, don't do that, I've just sprayed coffee all over my laptop ! |
It's true for a lot for aspects. They pull over when not overtaking, and don't lane hog. They generally indicate before pulling out. And as I mentioned, pull over when a car is in the hard shoulder. Very rare things in the UK!
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+100
| ski3 wrote: |
| Nobody has mentioned preparation, given that its very serious potentially to be stranded and immobile in many situation. |
...very much this ^^^
@AlistairPink @davidof I presume that the recovery operators are allowed to change wheels on the hard-shoulder, otherwise winched recovery off the motorway is the only alternative if the spray-gunge stuff doesn't do the job?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Fridge03 wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| Fridge03 wrote: |
| Whilst the French do have much better road discipline |
Jeez, don't do that, I've just sprayed coffee all over my laptop ! |
It's true for a lot for aspects. They pull over when not overtaking, and don't lane hog. They generally indicate before pulling out. And as I mentioned, pull over when a car is in the hard shoulder. Very rare things in the UK! |
Are you sure you weren't in Switzerland?
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| Dylan_T42 wrote: |
@AlistairPink @davidof I presume that the recovery operators are allowed to change wheels on the hard-shoulder, otherwise winched recovery off the motorway is the only alternative if the spray-gunge stuff doesn't do the job? |
They'll park their vehicle behind your car with the orange lights on and change the wheel on the road, if they can.
I've checked (articles from lawyers and gendarmes) and opinions vary about the legality of changing your own wheel but even the most optimistic think it is a bad idea. They also don't advise putting a warning triangle out on an autoroute. Just hazards.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Mon 11-03-24 12:26; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@davidof, When did you last drive in the UK?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| rjs wrote: |
| @davidof, When did you last drive in the UK? |
A couple of times in the south-east over the last two years. I cover about 15-20k / year in France. I think snowheads are comparing their "holiday" driving with general everyday driving in France. Come to Grenoble, Lyon or Paris if you want to see what standards are like.
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The biggest problem with relying on tyre sealant as a temporary repair is that the tyre is usually unserviceable afterwards.
This is a big issue if you've got a matching set of AS or winter tyres and need to keep all the tyres the same. Most AWD vehicles will also have a warning somewhere in the manual that you should not have more than a 2-3mm tread depth difference across an axle or front to back or you'll put too much strain on the drivetrain due to the different rolling radii.
Therefore, a single ruined tyre often means a full set of rubber is required. This is one of the best reasons to endure a space saver for a short distance to a proper tyre fitter who hopefully can repair your full size tyre and keep your matching set.
I've got a space saver and carry a can of gunk but also a 12v compressor in the back. For most slow punctures, just pumping the full size tyre up with the compressor and checking it every 10km or so will get you to a garage and potentially save you a lot of money.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
Come to Grenoble, Lyon or Paris if you want to see what standards are like.
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This! The driving on the autoroutes around Grenoble is frightening.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@davidof, I have driven around Grenoble during peak times but that isn't what the OP is planning to do, they were asking about driving on the autoroutes.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| ski3 wrote: |
Nobody has mentioned preparation, given that its very serious potentially to be stranded and immobile in many situations.
I check our family vehicle tires regularly and particularly before any longer journey like this, also a walk round at any stops en route to spot anything in way of deflation etc in practical avoidance of running problems.
If the OP or anyone else doesn't routinely check tires or have skills of that order, then worthwhile as small part of journey prep to get a competent view prior to travelling date. |
ALL my tire puncture had to do with foreign object encounters. So I don’t see the need for checking the tyres prior to a long journey. Not from my own experience.
That said, my car does get looked over yearly because we here has a thing call “annual inspection”. It’s pass and fail. But my local mechanic is eager to point out items needing attention “soon”. It means he gets the work “soon” rather than some random mechanic in far away place when I have a breakdown.
(Tyres got looked over semi-annually when the winters got swapped in and out)
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 11-03-24 13:14; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| The biggest problem with relying on tyre sealant as a temporary repair is that the tyre is usually unserviceable afterwards. |
That’s not the case for most cans of gunk AFAIUI
https://www.holtsauto.com/holts/support/mechanic-said-cant-repair-tyre-using-tyreweld/
[quote=“Je suis un Skieur”]I've got a space saver and carry a can of gunk but also a 12v compressor in the back. For most slow punctures, just pumping the full size tyre up with the compressor…will get you to a garage and potentially save you a lot of money.[/quote]
^^ agreed 
PS Can anyone see why my second quote doesn’t work? I can’t see anything wrong with it
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You’re missing a matching quotation mark on the ‘[quote=“]’
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@abc, if I hit the ‘quote’ button on my post, the text surrounding the two quotes in that post looks identical to me. Confused
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| PS Can anyone see why my second quote doesn’t work? I can’t see anything wrong with it |
It's @admin's belloved "smart quotes" ...where your device has prettified plain-vanilla "double-quotes" to something else entirely - my iPad does it all the time :-{
[EDIT#1] Ironically @Red Leon's single-quotes have indeed been smart-ified!
[EDIT#2]To correct the thread drift caused by modern tech automating things we should at least be aware of & should be doing for ourselves...try whiling away a long drive spotting the number of shredded tyres on the side of the road. Then imagine the fun for the occupants when it happened. Then check your tyres at the next stop 
(Now, off to browse Dull Mens Club on F/b ...)
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 11-03-24 13:45; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I knew someone would argue this.  I carry Holts but only as an absolute last resort because if you go to a French tyre repairer having used it and just get the Gallic "Non!", it really makes no difference whether Holts say it can be repaired or not.
But I will also refer you to Kwik-Fit because according to them, most factory fitted tyre sealant kits are AirMan and they cannot be repaired. https://www.kwik-fit.com/tyres/information/tyre-sealant
"Can Tyres Be Repaired after a Tyre Sealant is Applied?
By its very nature, the sealant gel is sticky and difficult to remove from the tyre in its entirety. For this reason, we do not carry out permanent puncture repairs on tyres where a sealant gel has been applied"
I note though, that AirMan's own website also says it "Easily washes out of the tyre with water to allow for full repair". So I think it's back to a case of whether the particular repairer you end up at can be bothered to do it or not. Better not to risk it if there's an alternative.
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Definitely take a space saver over nothing, it's not great but better than a can of foam.
The best combination is run-flat tyres and a full size spare (even in you have to store it in the main part of the boot taking up luggage space).
With run-flats you can drive up to 50 miles so can get off the motorway, find a safe place to change the wheel, then put the full size spare on.
An extending wheel brace will undo even the tightest of bolts that a garage has hammered on with an air-gun but the thing that's more likely to catch people out is that the wheel often gets tightly attached to the hub due to oxidation between the different metals. Often the wheel needs a hefty kick once it's off the ground to free it up, that's more tricky for anyone who's not familiar with how to change a wheel.
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[quote="Je suis un Skieur"]
Never go to kwik-fit for anything unless you want your car to be more broken than it was when you took it there. Find a local tyre place run by proper mechanics and they will fix your tyres properly, they will easily deal with a bit of tyre foam gunge. And as a bonus they won't tell you you need new brake pads/disks/suspension/exhaust or anything else than the kwik-fit people are trying to sell you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A bit unfair on Kwik fit. I've had tyres done in Kwik fit and never had any hardsell for anything else. And I went in there for a battery once (before a winter in the Alps, and the battery was years old) but they tested and told me the battery was fine. Depends on the local management, I imagine.
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| JohnS4 wrote: |
| Find a local tyre place run by proper mechanics and they will fix your tyres properly, they will easily deal with a bit of tyre foam gunge. |
The AA don't think so... https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/safety/tyre-repairs-and-sealants
Step 7 - Replace the tyre
Once you’re satisfied that you’ve repaired the tyre using the kit, drive your car to the nearest garage or tyre fitters to replace the tyre. A tyre that's been repaired with sealant will almost always need replacing, however small the puncture was.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Nor Halfords:
Can a tyre be repaired after using sealant?
Again, it's a no. Using sealant to form a temporary patch on the inside of the puncture can be a handy quick solution, especially if your burst tyre happens in a remote location. But the presence of the sealant inside the tyre can make it challenging to do a permanent repair later. Add the fact that you'll have driven on a punctured tyre, making the damage worse, and the conclusion is clear. After using sealant, the tyre can't be repaired, even by Halfords' experts.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I wouldn't take out the emergency wheel but I also carry a 12v compresser and tyre pressure gauge. Handy tools to have lying in my boot (both jammed in beside the 1st aid kit)
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| WASHOUT wrote: |
| I wouldn't take out the emergency wheel but I also carry a 12v compresser and tyre pressure gauge. Handy tools to have lying in my boot (both jammed in beside the 1st aid kit) |
That’s the best.
Though to be fair, I used it to help out others more than helping myself. Building up good Karma
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You know it makes sense.
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My car has run flats and TPMS but before long drives ie alps to Scotland would also check pressure with a separate gauge and adjust accordingly. Checking the pressure is a minutes job with a half decent gauge.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
Nor Halfords:
Can a tyre be repaired after using sealant?
Again, it's a no. Using sealant to form a temporary patch on the inside of the puncture can be a handy quick solution, especially if your burst tyre happens in a remote location. But the presence of the sealant inside the tyre can make it challenging to do a permanent repair later. Add the fact that you'll have driven on a punctured tyre, making the damage worse, and the conclusion is clear. After using sealant, the tyre can't be repaired, even by Halfords' experts. |
They are just covering their back bottom. There is nothing in the sealant that means that the tyre cannot be repaired. The only reasons for not being able to fix it are either (1) insufficient foam was used so that the tyre was driven whilst only partially inflated and (2) the garage is too lazy/wants to sell you a new tyre.
Even Blackcircles who are in the business of selling tyres agree:
https://www.blackcircles.com/helpcentre/tyres/what-is-tyre-sealant
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rjs wrote: |
| @davidof, I have driven around Grenoble during peak times but that isn't what the OP is planning to do, they were asking about driving on the autoroutes. |
I was replying to Fridge03
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Origen wrote: |
| A bit unfair on Kwik fit. I've had tyres done in Kwik fit and never had any hardsell for anything else. And I went in there for a battery once (before a winter in the Alps, and the battery was years old) but they tested and told me the battery was fine. Depends on the local management, I imagine. |
Kwik-fit are franchises with local management so you might have been one of the lucky ones who didn't get ripped off. Generally though they have a terrible reputation and people who know about cars steer well clear of them. They rely on gullible people who will believe them when they say they need stuff doing that does not.
There was a BBC article where they sent cars to 10 different locations and work that was not needed was recommended, and work that was claimed to have been completed was not done.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1j7733DfDM3jcXJfWGPM49P/inside-kwik-fit
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 11-03-24 17:54; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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[quote="JohnS4"]
| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
Never go to kwik-fit for anything unless you want your car to be more broken than it was when you took it there. Find a local tyre place run by proper mechanics and they will fix your tyres properly, they will easily deal with a bit of tyre foam gunge. And as a bonus they won't tell you you need new brake pads/disks/suspension/exhaust or anything else than the kwik-fit people are trying to sell you. |
My local kwik-fit are excellent. Its not my first point of call, but my local garage is very busy and sometimes have to wait a week or two to get booked in for work. So my local kwik-fit gets my custom for things like tyres, simple stuff that I know I need etc...
They have always done me right.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| JohnS4 wrote: |
| They are just covering their back bottom. There is nothing in the sealant that means that the tyre cannot be repaired. The only reasons for not being able to fix it are either (1) insufficient foam was used so that the tyre was driven whilst only partially inflated and (2) the garage is too lazy/wants to sell you a new tyre. |
I agree but it doesn't change anything for the consumer. If you've got a puncture in the mountains and have gone to the only garage in a 20km radius and he says he hasn't got the equipment/time/inclination to clean out the sealant, you're stuffed. You could drive down the valley and the next place might say the same, and so on.
I remember well this argument when sealants first came out - the sealant manufacturers all said the tyre could be cleaned and repaired as normal and all the tyre agents said exactly the above - too much time and effort for what they could realistically charge. I seem to recall the main objection was that it required the most basic of things to begin with, a bloody great big bath or a jet wash station with drainage that was a very poor return on investment, space wise. Looks like nothing's changed and they've all closed ranks because it's easier to sell a new tyre.
So for me, tyre sealant is an absolute last ditch, real emergency only option.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
it's easier to sell a new tyre
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or sometimes in France to sell you two new tyres, because both ends of an axle must match. Another good reason to have a full sized spare which matches what's on the wheels.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Je suis un Skieur,
You originally said,
| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| The biggest problem with relying on tyre sealant as a temporary repair is that the tyre is usually unserviceable afterwards. |
I think we have established what you actually meant is,
| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| The biggest problem with relying on tyre sealant as a temporary repair is that businesses who would rather sell you one or more new tyres will tell you that the tyre is usually unserviceable afterwards. |
which may well be true but isn’t the same thing
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Good to have some positive voices for Kwik Fit. It really annoys me when people just slag off "Kwik Fit"or similar businesses indiscriminately. They are franchises and some will be run by good people working hard to provide a decent service and build a reputation locally.
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@Red Leon, fair enough. End result is the same though isn't it?
What are you going to do, insist on using the garage owner's facilities to repair your own puncture? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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What sort of “tyre repair” are we talking about? The only one I know of is plugging a hole made by a nail. That wouldn’t have necessitate cleaning the sealant…
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| abc wrote: |
| What sort of “tyre repair” are we talking about? The only one I know of is plugging a hole made by a nail. That wouldn’t have necessitate cleaning the sealant… |
They work well, I carry a plugging kit too as its not hard to do, but so far only used on other's to rescue people that haven't made adequate check or provision
UK commercially supplied repair calls for plug AND vulcanised patch internal in providing a liability backed competent repair as I understand it. Cleaning obviously needed to facilitate.
There are "mushrooms" and application tools tgat may obviate this, by effectively leaving that mushroom head inside against tire structure as a sort of combined item.
Anything, both near to and in the sidewall, will scrap the tire in that eventuality if people are not familiar with that part of damage and it's consequences.
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FAQ
