it literally makes no difference at all as long as the point is made.
Yeah, but you didn't make a point. You asked a provocative question with an irrational assumption. You have shown no inclination to engage with the subject you raised, just to throw your weight around.
Sounds pretty trollish to me - a bad start to your thread. So, perhaps we should start again, in case we have misjudged your intentions. Do you wear a helmet when you drive? Or do you not care about the risk of head injury?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hurtle wrote:
@hang11,
Personally I'm glad this wasn't my head that was split open
Presumably this is a different helmet
Hurtle wrote:
@tsgsh, that's great. However a) my funny bag has little wheels, which for me is a huge bonus and b) I treasure my own helmet, admittedly not as much as I treasure my boots!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@hang11, …interesting post…and also very important that the area of the helmet which was specifically damaged is on an area of the skull where you do not want a penetrating blow - the infamous ‘rabbit punch’ - so-called not because it is cuddly…
Here’s another interesting weak point. Both thin bone and location of key arteries. Skip to the diagram but I love the compressed language of the intro…
i really couldn't care lees if someone wears a helmet or not, it is their choice but just out of curiosity do the non helmet wearers, wear a helmet when on a bike?
I've no idea what non helmet wearers do, @Jonny996, but the risks of cycling must be hugely greater than the risks of skiing. From my local observation, in a place with lots of cyclists, older people are less likely to wear helmets than younger ones.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Origen wrote:
I've no idea what non helmet wearers do, @Jonny996, but the risks of cycling must be hugely greater than the risks of skiing. From my local observation, in a place with lots of cyclists, older people are less likely to wear helmets than younger ones.
I think thats probably right - although around where I live, theres a lot of students and many dont bother if they are just zooming across to lectures etc.
A lot of "older people" (inverted commas, because I am unsure if I am also in this category) will have grown up - either cycling, or skiing or whatever - without wearing a helmet, and some find wearing one dulls their senses (hearing, for example) which makes them feel vulnerable.
Each to their own tho - wear one, dont wear one, but dont criticise someones personal choice.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I don't think anyone has criticised a personal choice, other than the OP who did so by implication and by a totally unwarranted assumption which he has not subsequently been arsed to defend.
Anyone using a ladder in the home or garden should most definitely wear a helmet, and a back protector. I personally know three men who have had life-changing injuries falling off ladders which the silly old buggers should never have been up.....
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Origen, a mate’s pa-in-law died of over-extension while trimming his hedge up a ladder
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@valais2, thanks for that!
I was lucky that day, that was a new helmet. I hardly ever used to wear one and only threw it on that day because the strap on my low light goggles worked better on it. I think I had used it 5 times over a year or so.
Really made me think about it though. I go reasonably fast and not averse to hitting some sporty lines, and I did that basically up the side of a learners slope at no speed at all.
So now I’m an advocate
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Origen wrote:
I've no idea what non helmet wearers do, @Jonny996, but the risks of cycling must be hugely greater than the risks of skiing. From my local observation, in a place with lots of cyclists, older people are less likely to wear helmets than younger ones.
I don't wear a helmet for either activity, except when ski teaching. I guess the 'older people' label does apply and there's a certain logic - I've survived 50+ years of cycling (and 30 years of skiing) without a helmet, why would I start wearing one now?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Me:
2003
One of two in the queue with a helmet. Bonedome Boeri. Horrible.
Partner always hummed the dambusters tune.
2010
More than fifty per cent of queue have helmets. I now have Giro helmet. Big bang onto water ice - helmet stopped concussion being far worse than it was…and it was bad enough…
2015
Almost 100 per cent of queue have helmets. Grom2 comes back with big dent in the back of his Fornix mips - ‘landed in a boulder field - should have spec’d the landing…’ - how does he feel? Absolutely fine. It’s easy to see that the helmet prevented a much more serious injury
2023
100 per cent of queue have helmets. Most are now high spec models. Grom2 has POC receptor mips and so do I. He wears it and swears by it. I get on lift with my non-mips POC and he gives me an earful because we’ll be doing rough stuff today. How times change.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
As a helmet wearer on both a bike and a snowboard, I don't understand the "old person" logic of not wearing one.
There's an old boy I see almost daily, cycling without a helmet and it gives me the chills. It only takes one careless driver to clip him and it's head on tarmac.
I am actually more forgiving of no helmets on ski slopes. Yes you could get clipped/wiped-out by another skier/snowboarder - but you're not likely to encounter motor vehicles on the mountain.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Chaletbeauroc, because all it takes is one time you don't survive it. just one. but your choice.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I noticed most of the esf instructors weren't wearing them in les arcs on my last trip, not really my place to judge someone so much more experienced but was a little bothered by it.
I didn't wear one mountain biking in my youth until a friend of mine crashed head first into a tree on a steep section and his saved him. Always worn one since. I was also saved by a hardhat out of habit rather than enforced wearing once. I had just started a new job and was used to wearing one on previous so it was on, walking through factory and a 12" adjustable spanner was dropped from a mewp, hit some steel work on the way down and cleared the cordoned area and bounced off my hat. They introduced bump caps or hard hats everywhere but offices shortly after. You can have god like awareness but even that won't save you sometimes.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
do the non helmet wearers, wear a helmet when on a bike?
I don't wear a helmet when skiing, but on a bike it depends:
Pub bike and folding bike. No helmet
Road bike. Most of the time no helmet, but if I'm searching out steep hills (e.g. in the Dales or Moors) to go up, and therefore down, the I'll wear a helmet
Cyclocross bike. Helmet both for racing and training
Mountain bike. If it's terrain that needs a mountain bike (e.g. trail centre reds and blacks, and equivalent), then I'll wear a helmet, otherwise maybe not
And a few other activities where there's a non-zero chance of head injury:
Travelling on public roads in a vehicle with 4 or more wheels. No helmet
Travelling on public roads on a motorbike or moped. Helmet
Motorsport. Helmet
Rock climbing where there's no significant chance of rockfall. No helmet
Ice or mixed climbing. Helmet, unless it's small non-technical amount as part of e.g. a ski tour
Walking or running on any terrain. No helmet
Climbing ladders. No helmet
Cross country skiing. No helmet
Not sure why the question was only aimed at those who don't wear a helmet skiing. My partner wears a helmet for lift-served skiing (but not normally when ski touring), but has a similar approach to me when cycling
I've no idea what non helmet wearers do, @Jonny996, but the risks of cycling must be hugely greater than the risks of skiing. From my local observation, in a place with lots of cyclists, older people are less likely to wear helmets than younger ones.
Mountain biking has a comparable risk profile to skiing/snowboarding (though I suspect this covers everything from Danny MacAskill stunt riding, through downhill racing to pottling along a canal towpath).
Road cycling is several orders of magnitude safer (assuming no other risk factors - hence it being pro-choice not anti-helmet).
Hence issues with using the road cycling pro helmet choice arguments for skiing.
For road cycling injuries are a lot rarer and a huge chunk of the ones that happen are due to cars (and so far beyond helmets you might as well discuss lucky rabbits feet, or, to give a real example, a tight red dress compressing the chest, preventing broken ribs puncturing lungs etc...). Literally cycling on roads is safer than walking per mile for head injuries (and safer than driving for 17-20 year old men in the UK!). There is also the issue for road cycling that there are loads of more effective measures (lights at night, infrastructure design, training for both riders and drivers, law enforcement against bad driving etc), and finally victim blaiming - people proclaiming a rider is partially at fault because they werent wearing a helmet when a driver speeding/on mobile/drunk/etc rear ended them...
Take the helmet photo - The helmet is A LOT weaker than the skull (by design). The alternative injury almost certainly isn't splitting the head open; Its cuts and bruises/gravel rash (snow/ice equivilent). But a nasty scalp cut, while not particularly dangerous, is still going to mean being blood waggoned off the mountain and taken to the local hospital to get stitched/glued/bandaged up; So is the difference between carrying on with your days skiing and losing days while you get treated etc + a pile of insurance paperwork. I would far rather be ranting about how much helmets cost to replace in resort (On the grand scheme of things, still not that much as part of a ski trip) than ranting about how many days skiing I am losing because I am in the hospital getting minor injuries treated...
While regularly argue against compulsion for cycle helmets, would argue skiing is closer to mountain biking where I agree helmets should be worn (potentially ones significantly exceeding cycle helmet standards); Equally, helmets are only useful if they fit properly, it is often safer not to wear a helmet than wear one that doesnt fit - it is amazing how many pro-cycle helmet compulsion groups publish promotion photos where helmets clearly don't fit (though the last government one I saw managed to combine this with the most common photo of unridable bikes (front forks backwards)); So it is a perfectly valid argument for someone against usage that they find helmets uncomfortable - because that guarantees the helmets they have tried don't fit...
The reality with a lot of these discussions is that fitness improvements from exercise almost certainly massively outweigh any increased risk from head injuries, regardless of whether you use a helmet - Skiing without a helmet is still better for you than not skiing... And helmet mandation stops some people skiing (or cycling...)
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Bike helmets have been mandatory in Nz for 30 years and I’ve never heard anybody complain about having to wear one.
But the stats say it hasn’t made much difference and possibly contributed to a reduction in bike use when it was introduced
this has turned into yet another pointless helmet debate.
who could have predicted?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
I really hope our government introduces a law to stop fat middle aged men wearing lycra.
PUFFINS.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Why don't cross-country skiers wear helmets
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Weathercam, it's a good question, my forays into XC are when I fall over, although my speeds are a lot lower.
I assume the risk is lower for XC as speeds are largely less than downhill, it's a more controlled environment i.e. people following the tracks and not people turning all over piste, and IME there's a lot less people around.
For biathlon it would also add time to remove to shoot
@Boris, I often see people learning and often see the skis shoot out from under them as they then fall backwards onto their coccyx, then their upper shoulders, followed by the coup de grace whiplash of the head to the snow, just like when learning to snowboard.
And then at speed, on even the simplest of descents people stack it, I probably do something stupid once in every ten or so sessions as I get my timing wrong
As you know, watch a full on skating race and the speeds and descents are frightening and so are the wipeouts.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Lots of serious head injuries in rugby.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I never wore one until a Snoworks course many years ago, where Phil made me buy one and helped me in the Tignes shop. Grateful for that, I can't believe how vulnerable I'd left my eggshell until then as I bombed around the mountain.
I'm a cyclist too, I first got round to wearing a helmet about 15 years ago. With literally rock hard roads and kerbs, plus a phalanx of cr@p drivers, again I can't believe that I cockily didn't bother until then. I've since came off heavily when a bike repairer hadn't correctly tightened the handled bar stem.
The main argument I've heard from cyclists who don't bother is that it won't make any difference if you go under a 40 tonne truck. Like that's the only way of getting seriously hurt.
I think I initially wore one out of respect for my loved ones who were badgering me.
Skiers who don't are rare these days, in Alta Badia last week just a few old timers with the knees bolted together ski technique and some 40 year old lattern-jawed squarehead males (too tough to have a head injury).
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Helmets are now, of course, high fashion in snowsports. It's almost certain that many of those wearing helmets undertake many objectively equally hazardous activities without similar protection.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
under a new name wrote:
this has turned into yet another pointless helmet debate.
who could have predicted?
I rather suspect thats exactly what the OP wanted............
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Snow&skifan wrote:
I never wore one until a Snoworks course many years ago, where Phil made me buy one and helped me in the Tignes shop. Grateful for that, I can't believe how vulnerable I'd left my eggshell until then as I bombed around the mountain.
Phil "made you buy one"? I find this hard to credit, TBH. I did a number of courses with Phil, between 1998 and 2012 (ish) from improver to instructor level and never wore a helmet, nor did he ever suggest it, not even commenting on it. Strange.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Chaletbeauroc wrote:
Snow&skifan wrote:
I never wore one until a Snoworks course many years ago, where Phil made me buy one and helped me in the Tignes shop. Grateful for that, I can't believe how vulnerable I'd left my eggshell until then as I bombed around the mountain.
Phil "made you buy one"? I find this hard to credit, TBH. I did a number of courses with Phil, between 1998 and 2012 (ish) from improver to instructor level and never wore a helmet, nor did he ever suggest it, not even commenting on it. Strange.
Dec 2014 race training week in Tignes, it was mandatory. He (in a friendly way) took me to shop in Tignes Le Lac.
Never saw Phil, Emma or Lee without a helmet.
Your "strange" suggests I'm a liar.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Snow&skifan, Sorry, that was not my intention. Your "many years ago" suggested that it was in the same period I had experience of them, but clearly it was somewhat later. It is indeed stated as obligatory on their website now.
@Snow&skifan, Sorry, that was not my intention. Your "many years ago" suggested that it was in the same period I had experience of them, but clearly it was somewhat later. It is indeed stated as obligatory on their website now.
I went on an off piste course with them in St Anton Jan 2008, now you mention it and thinking back, helmets weren't often worn and there was no pressure on me to buy one.
Perhaps highlighting that around 2010-ish their insurers and fashions had changed?
[All their young ones arrived with Emma from the Tarantaise in a huge SUV, at least one of them now becoming famous!].
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
I can testify for the lean back experience
My instructor applauded the first time I fell over frontwards. Flat on my face, still attached to skis. That doesn't happen on downhill skis......
After all it is free
After all it is free
@valais2,
Quote:
also very important that the area of the helmet which was specifically damaged is on an area of the skull where you do not want a penetrating blow
I have a hazy memory that, when helmets for cycling became prevalent, some people pooh-poohed them as being useless because they didn't protect that vulnerable area.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Timber Wolf …
It’s the equivalent of throwing a sack of sausages at a pack of huskies and expecting them to sit still
Helmets have saved my life twice (these were the A&E consultants’ judgements)
They have stopped me getting a very large crack on the head from carabiners more than once.
They have prevented concussion on a number of occasions.
Commuting - Bell Super III
Enduro - Bell Super III
DH - Bell Super DH
Climbing - Edelrid Zodiac
Skiing - POC Receptor Backcountry MIPS
Politics - stainless steel colander
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
under a new name wrote:
this has turned into yet another pointless helmet debate.
who could have predicted?
It's making my head hurt... do I need a helmet?
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Fri 8-03-24 15:33; edited 1 time in total
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
PUFFINS.
