 Poster: A snowHead
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@SnoodyMcFlude, my additional costs this year, on the "free" bank travel insurance was over £200 - can't remember the exact sum. But that's because I have PEMCs which could end up costing the insurance company a lot of money. I have now survived more than 5 years after a diagnosis for which the average survival is around 5 years....... so you can't blame them. I'm still really quite well, but they just work on statistics! A neighbour of mine, worried about taking his mother in law on a cruise when she was really very frail, arranged with the insurance company covering him and his wife, which he'd used for years, that whilst he would pay any costs, should she die, they would help him with all the logistics and arrangements. That worked well. She did die, and he didn't have to start learning how you get a body home!
Most of us old people who are lucky enough still be jetting round the world can probably afford the premiums!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@boulevardier, the French system is complicated! The state only pays around 70%of medical bills and, depending on circumstances, it can be considerably less than that so the GHIC will only cover to that level. Residents who want full cover need to take out an additional top up insurance. We have a CEAM (French GHIC), our top up policy which extends to Europe, and seperate additional cover for rescue etc. so I hope that we wouldn't end up bankrupted! A claim might end up very complicated though!
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| Origen wrote: |
| But they might just crop up when you are away skiing? Perhaps having lunch at the top of a mountain? Or asleep after a day out on the slopes. |
If you don't have winter sports cover, this does not mean that you are not covered for any claim that arises whilst on a holiday when you plan to spend some time skiing. It just means you cannot claim for medical costs "arising from taking part in winter sports". If I fell ill from my PEMCs whilst having lunch or sleeping, this would not arise from the skiing, unless the illness can be argued to be partly caused by the skiing, albeit with a delay. I judge this unlikely in the case of my PEMCs. If I fell ill when I'm actually on skis, I'd say that I'd still be covered for medical costs as long as I can establish that there is no causal link with the skiing though I accept that in that case I'd face a tough burden of proof.
| Origen wrote: |
| Or an insurance company might argue that they contributed to a skiing accident, or that skiing exacerbated a PEMC. |
I judge this unlikely in the case of my PEMCs.
| Origen wrote: |
| If you are quite sure none of the PEMCs would cause a problem when you were away, why bother with a policy at all? |
Because I want to be covered for medical costs should I have an accident.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You would need to read the small print very carefully to identify all the conditions and exclusions. In the case of my (cardiac) condition, if I were to have a cardiac emergency in the middle of the night, after having been skiing all day, and the policy excluded skiing, I'd be struggling to convince the insurers they should pay up. Equally, if you had a simple ski accident and was being treated in hospital for a badly fractured leg, would your PEMCs have no bearing on your treatment? Just for simplicity I think I'd cough up for a policy which covered both. Most travel policies cover straightforward piste skiing.
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| I have a general travel policy with Nationwide Flexplus which also includes winter sports, hubby has an existing medical condition covered for a small additional fee. |
That's my problem: Nationwide want silly extra premium for my PEMCs. I could get another policy that covers the PEMCs for hundreds less than Nationwide want for a PEMC add-on. But if I did that I'd only need the Flexplus to cover the skiing and for just that Flexplus is pretty pricey at £156 pa. (I don't really need the other benefits.) So, I'm assessing alternatives to Flexplus (with separate PEMC cover).
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| Origen wrote: |
| Most travel policies cover straightforward piste skiing. |
They do, but most of them charge silly extra premiums for my PEMCs. I would definitely prefer a single policy that covers everything, as it is much less likely to leave scope for insurers to quibble. I'm trying to work out how much extra cost there is for that peace of mind.
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If most of them charge a "silly extra premium" for your PEMC then it's probably not silly and like that for a reason.
I get it may be frustrating.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@koru, are you looking at a annual policy or a one - trip policy?
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As is usual here this thread is incredibly France focused...and that is not a criticism because snowHeads are ,in general, very France focused.
For those that ski in Switzerland it is worth knowing that if you pay for Insurance on your lift pass then piste rescue/blood wagon/ambulance/helicopter is all covered, and all it takes is a glance at your lift pass to check and that is literally the end of the admin process for you.
No pay/reclaim. No paperwork.
GHIC works really well in Switzerland, the hospitals accept it without question. Your contribution, for even major surgery and lengthy stays, is really small....I've never heard of a bill above a couple of hundred pounds or so, and that was for emergency brain surgery!
Repatriation is clearly up to you.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Layne wrote: |
| If most of them charge a "silly extra premium" for your PEMC then it's probably not silly and like that for a reason. |
It's like that because most of them don't bother to ask the right questions to underwrite the risk properly. I prefer to go with the ones that do.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Origen wrote: |
| @koru, are you looking at a annual policy or a one - trip policy? |
I need cover for more than one trip per year, so annual probably makes sense, but then I don't need winter sports cover for all the trips, so perhaps single trip policies are better.
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| koru wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
| If most of them charge a "silly extra premium" for your PEMC then it's probably not silly and like that for a reason. |
It's like that because most of them don't bother to ask the right questions to underwrite the risk properly. I prefer to go with the ones that do. |
I am not a defender of insurance companies - far from it - but they are in a difficult position here. No doubt they have some general policies, perhaps even some access to professional medical advice. But in essence it's probably not worth their bother delving too deeply. I mean, let's say 100 people in the UK have your PEMC, it's not a big tranche of customers to worry too much about.
There should be a better system than all this tbh - because as you can tell from all the insurance threads on here, it's way too complicated.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Wed 21-02-24 17:57; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Apparently, they all use one of a handful of specialist PEMC underwriting systems, which are 'plug ins' for their websites. Some of these ask much more questions, which means they can distinguish levels of risk. But most insurers choose the other providers, which just make broad assumptions, so they end up quoting premiums that are unnecessarily high for many people. Perhaps the former type of PEMC system is more expensive for the insurer? Or perhaps they prefer to quote unnecessarily high premiums, as they make a big profit from those punters who pay up and don't realise that some insurers will cover the PEMCs for a lower premium.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thank you all - very helpful to have the local knowledge !
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Origen wrote: |
| Most travel policies cover straightforward piste skiing. |
But rarely for off piste, even just at the sides, certainly without a guide.
And Staysure, I recall, has a silly exclusion for any cover if even on piste at Cat 3 or above avvy level (separate threads on this).
Sadly often far from straightforward once PEMCs come into play, even if unlikely to cause issue (but still having to be declared in full).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The insurance companies will also load premiums for age - and the combination of age and PEMCs makes life more difficult in all sorts of ways! The fact that ski holidays become more expensive is - believe me, you very young people - one of the most minor downsides of being old and/or sick! There are upsides too, like not having to go skiing in school holidays. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Basic holiday insurance PLUS Carre Neige, for 30 day France trip with a few days skiing . Thoughts please.
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Does the basic holiday insurance cover winter sports? If so, should be fine.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Make sure you have valid GHIC.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I have Staysure annual with the winter cover. I have some recent experience after breaking my leg on the BB in Italy this year. I had a nice trip over the moguls in a blood wagon, an ambulance to the hospital, 3 or 3 nights in the hospital and some nice engineering work on my leg.
My took a copy of my GHIC card in the hospital. This covered all costs. Though I did get an invoice for 13 euros for something along with a payment link that couldn't be used from a UK account. Still feel vaguely guilty about that - even though it was only 13 euros.
Staysure covered the cost of an extra seat so I could fit my inflated, bandaged leg on the plane. (EJ won't give you an extra legroom seat as you're in immobile liability in the event of a crash...) They also covered the 36 euros I paid for crutches and the couple of hundred euros for the taxi to the airport - minus the excess.
The questions about the accident were pretty minimal and all self declared. And that was before they knew what they were liable for. I don't think they checked that I was on piste, where I was or avalance risk or anything else. They may have if it had been a 100K claim though.
I was told you can still get GHIC benefits if you don't have the card, as a UK resident, but you end up in a whole other level of bureaucracy to resolve it. So yea, get the card. It takes about 4 days.
Our Staysure costs 100 quid for the year for the whole family, covers skiing and also hire car excess. It's so cheap I'm amazed you get anything but they were pretty efficient. A huge claim would no doubt be different but they were good with me for the small claim I made.
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| Quote: |
I had a nice trip over the moguls in a blood wagon
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Ouch.....
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Staysure initially looked quite good, but we'll hit the limit on trip duration, and not covered for guided offpiste....
"For annual multi-trip policies – you only go on two trips of up to 21 days in total for Comprehensive
policies and 28 days _in total_ for Signature policies during the period of cover" (despite a hefty fee for the 100 day trip limit)
"Skiing or snowboarding off-piste (only if within the confines of the ski resort on recognised and
authorised areas)
@B., did you not have to fill in an accident form requesting details of the accident location etc? I had to provide a full and explicit description of mine, and explain why there were no witnesses, etc...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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So our ? is, driving to France, away 31 days in total including 4 days travel but only skiing probably 10 days in total. Would basic travel insurance plus daily carte neige suffice without taking out winter sports insurance. Carte neige (we always take this out anyway) will get us off the mountain, blood wagon without any upfront cost to us.
Its not so much the cost of insurance,but paying upfront costs and then having a fight to claim back ££££ .
we have never claimed on insurance but aging body and all that !!
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 30-10-24 16:57; edited 1 time in total
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@susieski, I don't think you've said whether your "basic" insurance covers the kind of skiing you'll be doing. And some policies won't cover a 31 day trip, either. Without seeing the small print it's difficult to try to answer your questions.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Origen, Yes holiday insurance without winter sports cover. For instance, accident on hill, blood wagon, heli lift etc is covered by Carte Neige, no upfront cost. Repatriation included. The other half would have AA cover if he couldn't drive back.
i have no problem paying for insurance but they'll find a way to wiggle out of it. Oh and just piste skiing
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| hamilton wrote: |
Staysure initially looked quite good, but we'll hit the limit on trip duration, and not covered for guided offpiste....
"For annual multi-trip policies – you only go on two trips of up to 21 days in total for Comprehensive
policies and 28 days _in total_ for Signature policies during the period of cover" (despite a hefty fee for the 100 day trip limit)
"Skiing or snowboarding off-piste (only if within the confines of the ski resort on recognised and
authorised areas)
@B., did you not have to fill in an accident form requesting details of the accident location etc? I had to provide a full and explicit description of mine, and explain why there were no witnesses, etc... |
Actually, maybe it did but I said no witnesses as 1. There were folks around but I don't think anyone actually saw it and 2. I assumed that was more for collision claims where they'd want to work out who was at fault. In my case I just fell over so it was obviously me, and my technique, that was at fault. They did ask if I was on piste etc. but what I meant was that I could have fallen anywhere (within reason) and said 'bottom of blue run near hotels' and I assume they'd take that as the location. There didn't seem to be any way for them to check. Not that I'm encouraging you to lie, just that if you fell off the side of the piste I don't think they'd be checking if they could exclude you for not being on the piste.
I don't think most basic holiday insurance covers skiing. Otherwise they wouldn't charge extra for it. I get the point that you can get to a hospital FOC with the piste cover but, if it wasn't GHIC covered, I'm not sure your policy would cover you as a 'walk in' as they hadn't recovered you from the slope. If that's what you meant.
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| Quote: |
I get the point that you can get to a hospital FOC with the piste cover but, if it wasn't GHIC covered, I'm not sure your policy would cover you as a 'walk in' as they hadn't recovered you from the slope.
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I imagine that they wouldn't cover anything at all if winter sports were explicitly excluded. I don't think I've ever had a travel policy which excluded winter sports (though some explicitly excluded off piste).
For many minor injuries you are likely to be taken to a resort clinic - I don't think you can "demand" to be taken to a hospital. When I fractured my pelvis I was treated at the local clinic. It wasn't expensive as it was a simple injury, but it was covered (minus the excess) by my "free" Nationwide insurance.
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You know it makes sense.
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Many of the costs of an accident on the slopes are not biggies, but the one which would worry me is a big third party claim (if I am considered to have damaged somebody else!). Carte Neige doesn't cover that. I think that if I could pay a reasonable supplement to add winter sports to my travel insurance, I would do so!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Origen, yes, third party , I hadn’t thought of that
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think I’ll go with BMC
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Could those with more knowledge advise whether this is a reasonable approach in France ?
1 . To get you off the mountain - carre neige
2 . For the initial consultation in the resort (probably private ) - AAC or other top up cover or just pay
3 . Emergency care in hospital - ghic plus daily fee of c 15-20 euros
4 . Longer term care in hospital - eg multiple fractures requiring prolonged in patient treatment - if this is in a state run hospital then ghic for most of the costs with aac or likewise to top up . As far as I can see Albertville and Grenoble hospitals are state run but could you find yourself in a private run one not covered by ghic with no say in this ?
5. Repatriation - carre neige / aac
6. Third party - aac
BUT - I may be wrong on parts of this and would welcome advice from those more in the know !
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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AAC provides 3rd party cover.
Our insurance for this year is AAC, GHIC, home insurance(covers belongings) and vehicle insurance. No travel insurance.
But our vehicle is both our transport and accommodation so travel insurance doesn’t offer us much.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| boulevardier wrote: |
Could those with more knowledge advise whether this is a reasonable approach in France ?
1 . To get you off the mountain - carre neige
2 . For the initial consultation in the resort (probably private ) - AAC or other top up cover or just pay
3 . Emergency care in hospital - ghic plus daily fee of c 15-20 euros
4 . Longer term care in hospital - eg multiple fractures requiring prolonged in patient treatment - if this is in a state run hospital then ghic for most of the costs with aac or likewise to top up . As far as I can see Albertville and Grenoble hospitals are state run but could you find yourself in a private run one not covered by ghic with no say in this ?
5. Repatriation - carre neige / aac
6. Third party - aac
BUT - I may be wrong on parts of this and would welcome advice from those more in the know ! |
1. AAC would cover
2. AAC would cover
3. GHIC and AAC would cover
4. GHIC and AAC would cover
5. AAC would cover
6. AAC would cover
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thank you - very helpful
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's worth noting that whilst Carte/Carré Neige cover medical costs and repatriation the maximum sums covered are quite small (nothing like the levels you'd get with a bog standard UK based travel insurance package). As you'd reasonably expect when it costs the same as a cup of coffee per day. You get what you pay for. Read the small print.
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| Origen wrote: |
| It's worth noting that whilst Carte/Carré Neige cover medical costs and repatriation the maximum sums covered are quite small (nothing like the levels you'd get with a bog standard UK based travel insurance package). As you'd reasonably expect when it costs the same as a cup of coffee per day. You get what you pay for. Read the small print. |
You are right but for countries like France with a GHIC you don’t need much cover unless you want private healthcare.
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This is a very useful thread.
It would be even more valuable with some info on how successful claims have been with the above model....
To the list above, some recent examples of costs....
(my situation - simple fall with no other party involved, 'on piste'. Wife's incident, fractured ankle off piste, both in Italy)
1 . To get you off the mountain - carre neige - (or in Italy there is a daily 'insurance' which I believe is similar - about 3eu/day) in my case, I walked. In my wifes case, 250euro charge to 'piste security' which travel insurance covered (and without the payment of which they would not move her). Wife was also charged several hundred for the 'ambulance' from the lift station to the clinic. Quite unnecessary...
2 . For the initial consultation in the resort (probably private ) - AAC or other top up cover or just pay. Several hundreds of euros in both cases, for x-rays, cast (in her case), and the most expensive foam shoulder strap in mine. Note that in practice this is typically 'private' and typically 'pay now and claim on your insurance' - the clinic we used makes that _very_ clear up front.
3 . Emergency care in hospital - ghic plus daily fee of c 15-20 euros (n/a for us in europe in the above)
4 . Longer term care in hospital - eg multiple fractures requiring prolonged in patient treatment - if this is in a state run hospital then ghic for most of the costs with aac or likewise to top up . As far as I can see Albertville and Grenoble hospitals are state run but could you find yourself in a private run one not covered by ghic with no say in this ? (n/a in europe for us. Subsequent care in the UK was a mix of NHS and private through existing health insurance) I think if the authorities admit you to a private hospital, the payment process will be clarified quickly....
5. Repatriation - carre neige / aac (in my case, travel insurance covered cost of flight home as initially I was supposed to be driving)
6. Third party - aac (fortunately not applicable)
My genuine worry with mixing insurance providers is, very simply, that the claims management companies will look for _any_ excuse to not pay. They wanted full details of when my policy was taken out, trip details etc (along with accident info), to see if there was a reason they could cite to avoid paying. I could well imagine that had my wife's scenario happened to me, the 'accident' (which was 'off piste without a guide' - which is specifically covered) would I'm sure would have attracted questions in the event the policy has some of the now-popular vague wording like 'inbounds subject to resort approval'.
I could also well imagine that trying to claim for 'repatriation' for an injury that was "not insured" would be turned down (i.e. if your policy does not cover off-piste skiing, you break your leg, AAC might get you bandaged, but 'cheapo insurer' won't pay for extra seats on the trip home).
It _does_ all depend what risk you want insuring against.... but I'm a little nervous at the assumption that mixing insurers will all be fine. I'd be very happy to be corrected, nonetheless.
As a final aside (and as I'm in the process of claiming for a holiday curtailment) - if you have a 'long' trip planned, consider whether your cancellation will cover it if you have to come home part way through. I'm down a significant amount after my summer holiday got shortened due to a family emergency... 3 months and counting and the claims co _still _ haven't paid out, and made me jump through all the usual hoops - at least in this case the insured event was indisputably covered, but the uncertainty does not help.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
You are right but for countries like France with a GHIC you don’t need much cover unless you want private healthcare.
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But as soon as you are discharged from hospital, which after a typical orthopaedic ski injury will be quite quickly, life can become very expensive indeed......and complicated, especially if you have been injured and can't get yourself around.
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Thanks for the information.
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FAQ
