 Poster: A snowHead
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@Orwell, we used to. With kids. Now we adopt the ‘Orwell’ method and everyone is much happier 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Orwell, I've done it for less by going B&B, and then spent even more than I saved on eating out at night, which also has a knock on effect on the booze kitty.
I think self-catering makes sense for some, particularly if you're a family and drive there, and so can a) bring a lot of prepared food and some ingredients with you and b) stock up at the cheaper supermarkets at the bottom of the mountain.
I go self catering a lot in the UK. Cooking meals from scratch in a cheaply furnished kitchen is a lesson in stress and misery IMO.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Orwell wrote: |
| but we refuse to clean or cook on holiday |
Well said . . . !!! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This argument that a "poor day in the mountains is better than a day in the office" always irritates me. Assuming that for most of us the time and money for holidays is limited, it sometimes makes sense to put in a few more days in the office (or at home, spending very little money), rather than to head expensively into poor conditions. And the cost of the holiday makes little difference to that calculation.
I can't help feeling that lots of these references to "the usual slush" which we've seen for weeks now, is not "usual" for the end of January!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Kramer, so relatively late flight booking?
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| Origen wrote: |
| I can't help feeling that lots of these references to "the usual slush" which we've seen for weeks now, is not "usual" for the end of January! |
It's somewhat better than the muddy fields that were the conditions at the end of January '23.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Kramer, so relatively late flight booking? |
What's the point of booking earlier if conditions are crap?
But even so, unless you're booking on the day that flights become available Easyjet etc are always about that price IME.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@johnE, yeah, I’d think circa a grand for a week  |
That used to be the case, when Gite Belvedere was self catering and most things a lot cheaper, also usually guaranteed good conditions. Now flight and accommodation package outside peak season £1k to £1.5k plus lift pass, insurance, basic food and drink etc easy reaches £2k. But also stronger likelyhood of being restricted to piste skiing. My mountain biking is low end punter level but for the same money I can be guaranteed loads of brilliant sea kayaking or rock climbing in UK or abroad
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I'm hoping that conditions now don't bear any resemblance to what transpires in mid March. We tentatively plan to head back out to Austria on either the 16th or 23rd March. Historically we have had good conditions then. If conditions worsen we will delay till June. Booking a week or two in advance usually yields a bargain or two from Crystal.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Nadenoodlee, excellent, good to hear! No fighting over who makes the bed or coffee
@Kramer, absolutely, it all comes down to preferences and budgets. To us, if the choice is cooking and cleaning at home or somewhere else, we’d pick the former every time, where everything is to our taste, standard, and in the place we expect!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Must admit I don't enjoy eating restaurant/hotel food all the time and actively prefer self catering.
I have just had 10 days skiing in the dolomites with 4 nights in a hotel followed by a week self catering.
The hotel was fine but I preferred the week self catering.
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You know it makes sense.
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It’s an interesting analysis.
I usually flew London-Geneva, so more cheaper flights than MAN-INN, got to and from the airport by tube/train.
Flights say £150?
GVA has a more developed transfer infrastructure but still £100 return if maximising skiing?
2* uncatered hotel no idea now.
Admittedly, some day passes now ouchey £
But I still doubt I’d break £1,500 (even £1,000) excess spend vs staying at home ??
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Kramer wrote: |
I go self catering a lot in the UK. Cooking meals from scratch in a cheaply furnished kitchen is a lesson in stress and misery IMO. |
I think the assumption that a self-catering apartment is poorly or cheaply equipped is quite sad. I stayed at quite a few shoebox-sized hovels in French resorts a number of times back in the day, but had the impression that it was no longer the case.
That's why one of our key objectives when starting out renovating our apartments for rental was to make each one somewhere we would want to stay and to go back to, including properly equipped (and now, 3 out of four, newly installed, by me) kitchens, nice linen and towels, comfy beds etc. etc.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| under a new name wrote: |
| But I still doubt I’d break £1,500 (even £1,000) excess spend vs staying at home ?? |
You're not including insurance and you're still not including food and drink.
I spend about £50 per week on food at home.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Kramer wrote: |
I go self catering a lot in the UK. Cooking meals from scratch in a cheaply furnished kitchen is a lesson in stress and misery IMO. |
I think the assumption that a self-catering apartment is poorly or cheaply equipped is quite sad. I stayed at quite a few shoebox-sized hovels in French resorts a number of times back in the day, but had the impression that it was no longer the case.
That's why one of our key objectives when starting out renovating our apartments for rental was to make each one somewhere we would want to stay and to go back to, including properly equipped (and now, 3 out of four, newly installed, by me) kitchens, nice linen and towels, comfy beds etc. etc. |
In the UK, most of the self catering cottages I've stayed in, and there've been quite a lot, 5 different ones last year, have got a list of items that they need to supply. Almost all of them have gone to whichever suppliers supply these things and bought the cheapest thing that looks ok. Stamped knives are standard, as are thin steel pans. They're ok to warm stuff in, but next to useless for cooking from scratch. Not all of them are awful, but the standard is so variable you can't rely on it IMO. YMMV.
I get it. Most people who use rentals are reasonably careful with them, however it only takes one or two a season to ruin stuff to eat into profits if you're having to replace regularly.
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@under a new name, for £150 flights you must be hand luggage only? Most folk have to pay extra for baggage and ski carriage or rental
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| T Bar wrote: |
Must admit I don't enjoy eating restaurant/hotel food all the time and actively prefer self catering.
I have just had 10 days skiing in the dolomites with 4 nights in a hotel followed by a week self catering.
The hotel was fine but I preferred the week self catering. |
It is just so much more flexible. Knackered at the end of the day? No need to get the clothes on again to go out, meals don't have to be complicated. Something in a slow cooker, pasta and sauce, pick something up from the traiteur in the village, or order in. Not all apartments are hovels or shoeboxes these days. For a French apartment classification (mine is 4*) there is a long list of kitchen equipment needed, and they don't take kindly to poor quality if you want to keep your rating.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 11-02-24 17:56; edited 1 time in total
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| On the rocks wrote: |
| @under a new name, for £150 flights you must be hand luggage only? Most folk have to pay extra for baggage and ski carriage or rental |
Not even hand luggage, just a small cabin bag.
I pack light, and I can get everything for a week's skiing holiday into a standard sized cabin bag, but that now costs extra. Pretty much the same price as hold luggage to be exact.
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| T Bar wrote: |
Must admit I don't enjoy eating restaurant/hotel food all the time and actively prefer self catering.
I have just had 10 days skiing in the dolomites with 4 nights in a hotel followed by a week self catering.
The hotel was fine but I preferred the week self catering. |
Fair enough. But I'm willing to bet that when you add up all the costs, unless you're bringing a fair amount of your own food with you, it doesn't work out much cheaper.
And yeah, if it's your own apartment, of course it's cheaper, because you pretty much live there and know where to shop.
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| Quote: |
I have just had 10 days skiing in the dolomites with 4 nights in a hotel followed by a week self catering.
The hotel was fine but I preferred the week self catering.
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That's how I feel. If you rent somewhere with end-of-stay cleaning included, and a dishwasher, the amount of "cleaning" you do in a week is negligible. There are plenty of easy things to cook, and usually a traiteur up the road and a choice of different restaurants. And unlimited beers, gin and tonics, nuts and snacks and good quality wine at supermarket prices. If I were rich I'd probably rent a smart place with its own swimming pool, massage room, etc and buy in a chef to cook exactly what we wanted. And there'd be someone to drive us to the slopes, too.
Holidays for one person are always likely to be expensive. 5 of us drove to the Alps at Christmas for the same price as 1. My room in an Ibis hotel cost the same as the 4 person family room down the corridor. When I was debating going with friends last year, my package with Crystal would have cost exactly the same as they were paying for a couple.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@On the rocks, good point. Ignore, please, anything I type as I’m obviously out of date.
£2k still seems very £££
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It probably can be quite expensive for a single person booking quite late.
It’s all about preferences and I still don’t really know what sort of skiing the OP actually likes. So impossible to give any informed advice. Some like hotels, some like to self-cater. We prefer the later but eat out a lot so not sure it is any cheaper, just prefer having the option to suit ourselves and the extra space to enjoy time together. And I have never, and would never, consider a tiny cramped and cheap apartment. Actually that’s not true, before we were married we did 2 last minute things to Andorra at £99 per head. Ended up with an apartment for 6 both times which was just about adequate for the two of us!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Kramer wrote: |
In the UK, most of the self catering cottages I've stayed in, and there've been quite a lot, 5 different ones last year, have got a list of items that they need to supply. |
Eh? "Needed" by whom? Who's writing the list? I don't quite follow, unless you're talking about requirements from a specific rental site, but for sure neither booking.com nor airbnb provide or mandate such a list.
| Kramer wrote: |
Almost all of them have gone to whichever suppliers supply these things and bought the cheapest thing that looks ok. Stamped knives are standard, as are thin steel pans. They're ok to warm stuff in, but next to useless for cooking from scratch. Not all of them are awful, but the standard is so variable you can't rely on it IMO. YMMV.
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Well yes, as owners our mileage most certainly does vary. If it's not up to the standard I would require for myself I don't consider it acceptable to expect someone else to use it. End of.
| Kramer wrote: |
I get it. Most people who use rentals are reasonably careful with them, however it only takes one or two a season to ruin stuff to eat into profits if you're having to replace regularly. |
We get the odd breakage, of course, but it's not generally the things that would be more expensive. Of course I wouldn't put our Wedgewood bone china and Arthud Price silver cutlery (that we've not used for probably ten years) in the rental apartments, but that doesn't mean you need to go all the down to the virtually-disposable stuff you mention. All else apart, cheap cutlery does not last, nor cookware and most other kitchen utensils. It's very much a false economy in my view.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Basic self-catering is generally the cheapest way for a family to have a holiday and if you're used to camping, boats, etc is no hardship. But for me the choice of self-catering is nothing to do with cost these days (though it was when we had three hungry kids). I just much prefer it, not just for ski holidays, but generally. I would much prefer a week in a nice chartered yacht, or a well-situated holiday cottage, to a cruise with 3,684 other people or a hotel surrounded by people stuffing their faces with far more food than they need "because we've paid for it". I've never been to an "all inclusive" place but because I worked in the Caribbean and the South Pacific I spent a lot of time in holiday hotels, sometimes quite good ones, but watching people staggering back from the buffet with teetering piles of "pancakes and syrup" was not a good way to start the day. But I was being paid, so I put up with it. 
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@Chaletbeauroc, I suspect 'needed' is a requirement of the expensive agencies that many cottage owners use. I'm not sure about the UK, but French classification system has a list of things needed to gain a 'star/etoile' rating, including size of bed, bathroom facilities, and seating, as well as a list of kitchen equipment needed.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Chaletbeauroc, as mentioned, I suspect by the agency.
You do seem to be getting a bit defensive about my observations about my own personal experience with self catering cottages in the UK?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I posit that the real Snow Heads divide is not helmet or no helmet, Austria or France, or ski or board. No, sir… it’s hotel or apartment.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
Well yes, as owners our mileage most certainly does vary. If it's not up to the standard I would require for myself I don't consider it acceptable to expect someone else to use it. End of.
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Unfortunately, @Chaletbeauroc not everyone thinks like that. For example, many of the 'upper-end' French apartment residences have a poorly equipped kitchen.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I stayed in a very twee little AirBnB Welsh country cottage a couple of years ago - met a friend there, and she shared my grumbles. Much of it was fine, but the kitchen was a triumph of style over function. The kitchen sink was tiny (there was no dishwasher, which was fine as we weren't expecting one) and the plates and dishes were simply enormous. Two experienced and competent women who mostly consumed wine and crisps managed fine with some very simple cooking but washing up was a nightmare. There was just one tiny sink and no washing up bowl and a small dish draining rack. Feeding a family (the place slept 4) would have been a real trial.
Our other grumble was the bathroom. Frightfully trendy free standing bath with matching vintage style gold mixer tap and a shower fitment which sat on top like an old style telephone. BUT - there was a painted wall and a window behind it, no shower curtain or screen and the only way to "shower" without soaking the wall and/or floor was to lie prone in the bath and be very careful.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Kramer wrote: |
You do seem to be getting a bit defensive about my observations about my own personal experience with self catering cottages in the UK? |
Sorry if that's how it came across. Surprised, is all.
| Hells Bells wrote: |
Unfortunately, @Chaletbeauroc not everyone thinks like that. For example, many of the 'upper-end' French apartment residences have a poorly equipped kitchen. |
I can see that we should be making a lot more of it then. Our mostly Swiss guests do sometimes comment on how well equipped we are, but I really thought the whole world had moved on in that direction... apparently not 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| T Bar wrote: |
Must admit I don't enjoy eating restaurant/hotel food all the time and actively prefer self catering.
I have just had 10 days skiing in the dolomites with 4 nights in a hotel followed by a week self catering.
The hotel was fine but I preferred the week self catering. |
Fair enough. But I'm willing to bet that when you add up all the costs, unless you're bringing a fair amount of your own food with you, it doesn't work out much cheaper.
And yeah, if it's your own apartment, of course it's cheaper, because you pretty much live there and know where to shop. |
Definitely not my own apartment , I wish. 
I honestly don't know how it would compare in price and I'm not trying to criticise anyone who wants a hotel just not what I prefer.
I don't usually total everything I spend skiing but to give an idea I did go to Val D'Isre with a couple of friends just before I went to the dolomites and because we shared a lot of the costs I do have some idea as we paid collectively and had to divi up..
7 Nights in Val d'Isere for flights hold bags skis and bus transfer airport parking plus all money spent eating in and drinking in was £825 flying Edinburgh Grenoble. The apartment was spacious with a good view and comfortable 1 bedroom with twin beds and one decent sofa bed. 55m2. Notable expenses that are excluded because they weren't shared were lift passes, insurance and eating on the mountain.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Chaletbeauroc, it is certainly better than 10 years or so, as new residences that are being built are of higher quality. Not sure about the standard of their equipment though.
I rarely stay in a UK cottage, we use or campervan for weekend breaks, and the only other thing I have stayed in recently was a rustic shepherd's hut in the grounds of a Peak District pub.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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and apologies to @Kramer, for hijacking his post.
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| T Bar wrote: |
| 7 Nights in Val d'Isere for flights hold bags skis and bus transfer airport parking plus all money spent eating in and drinking in was £825 flying Edinburgh Grenoble. |
Yeah, so only within a meal or two out’s distance of what a half board hotel would cost then?
Probably a bit cheaper, but not night and day difference.
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@Kramer, what am i missing
? £825 vs £1860 - £2610 ??
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@T Bar, did the £825 include your share of the accommodation?
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Kramer, what am i missing
? £825 vs £1860 - £2610 ?? |
The fact that he’s not included ski pass, insurance, ski hire, and food and drink on the mountain in the £825.
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FAQ
