 Poster: A snowHead
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Ive open up a can of worms here havnt I 
All very helpfull, thanks. Keep em comming.
My only experience is by independantly booking my skiing holiday, but I am considering the TO option.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 14-07-06 12:13; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Renry, interesting you're considering going "the other way".
I'm a fairly cautious traveller and I quite like using TO's because then everything is someone else's problem. If you go with someone like Inghams then you're not obliged to take their ski hire, lift pass or classes offering - I think you can opt not to take their transfers if you chose. I looked at travelling independently to Westendorf (where we've been a few times), and found the flights / transfers the tricky bit to replace - certainly for a summer trip it's cheaper for us to go with Inghams. As cathy says, if you don't want to drive then the transfer is the trickiest bit - particularly if you're travelling as a couple, rather than a larger group.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Lizzard,
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Remember, in the event that there are problems with your holiday the larger tour operators are better placed to deal with problem situations than the smaller niche operators. May be this can be an important consideration when choosing your next ski-ing holiday. Thu Jul 13, 06
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Quite right, We went with a smaller operator (not one 'pimped' on here!) and their solution to a staff shortage was to go to a bar in the village and employ a ski bums g/f as a Nanny because she was qualified as a Nanny in Austalia  T
he small to medium co's do not have the resources of a large operation as a back up when things go wrong. (Obviously family operated / one chalet ops are a different matter)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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boredsurfin, that sounds like a reasonable solution to me. What's wrong with an Australian nanny qualification?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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he small to medium co's do not have the resources of a large operation as a back up when things go wrong
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In Reberty Silver Ski run 3 adjacent chalets of 18 (absolute max) beds each. They employed 3 staff per chalet and had a 4th that floated, doing a week in each chalet week. The staff were not over worked and had it very easy on the floating week. The reason for this was to cover should any of the staff fall ill or be injured. It reduces the profit but makes great sense for customer care and staff moral
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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richmond, err she wasn't and a baby in her care fell down a stone staircase from first to ground floor.
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boredsurfin, fair enough. Character building for him, though.
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I quite often DIY. However, if something goes wrong, I am on my own. It's happened twice. Once when driving to Val D'Isere, I could not get beyond Moutiers because of avalanche fall/risk. I wound up at Brides les Baines in a hotel at my own expense. And, in January, I was travelling by train from Grenoble. The trains suddenly had to be re-timed and re-routed (I think someone had jumped on the line in front of a train down-route. To say the least, my school-boy French was stretched. Fortunately, I still made it to the airport in time, thanks to quit a few very helpful anglophone French.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We always DIY in Europe (and would in N.America if we could come close to TO prices). I can't think of any eventuality which we couldn't cope with but a TO could. If there's a problem, I prefer to be master of my own destiny (to put it a touch grandly).
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We're going to Kitzbuhel end of Jan with Inghams, staying in a B&B for £250 each for the week. I think it'd be pretty hard to beat that DIY including flights & transfers - and it's less hassle. Of course, this'll probably be the time we have to wait 3 hours at the airport and then I swear never to go with a TO again! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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ben wright, i dont know what transfer service you use but i think you neeed to loof for another!
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I don't use a transfer service, we provide our own free transfers to guests and, like you, I've had to wait around for hours for delayed groups. The risk I was referring to is that if you buy the flight/transfer/accomodation separately the person providing the transfer is unlikely to wait.
I didn't think it was necessary to mention our transfer services as I was trying to keep to the topic and not use it as an excuse to pimp.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have tried to do the DIY option back to the resort we visited this January and I can't do it cheaper then the TO. We went with Crystal and although we had a great holiday I didn't rate the staff much and they seemed really disinterested in what they were doing. I would like to go DIY but I must admit it is the transfers that concern me cost of taxie versus hiring a car but as I have never driven outside of the UK and although I am a confident driver I worry that I will forget where I am and have an accident. As a beginner i thought it was good to go with Crystal and it was all booked before we went and ready for us when we got there which was good, we were just told where to go and the ski school were excellent. I think there are positives and negatives for both. It is also having the kowledge to know where to get the best deals, and who to contact coming on this site is a great help.
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I'm surprisingly going to stick up for the package holiday... I work a stressful job and I don't have the time to do stacks of research and organise all the different elements of a holiday separately. I want to go on holiday to relax and enjoy the sport I love.
I tend to spend 1 day making about 5 calls to brokers like Iglu who invariably find me a package deal because of my criteria - I want to fly from Bristol and I don't want to worry about driving when I get there. Because I have my own gear and am not a beginner it works out well because I get a lift pass on the transfer bus and I'm ready to go. Have learnt to ignore the supposed extras on offer - like trips to bobsleigh, horse rides etc. I do avoid chalets these days - so end up in a nice hotel and thats usually where the contact with the package operator ends.
Out of interest last time I looked at the price it would have cost to stay in the hotel in Kitzbuhel we were in last year - and I don't think we were ripped off by the package operator. Once you factor in the cost of a flight from Bristol, transfer and things like free upgrade to a deluxe room - price wise it was comparable. Thats before you even get to the intangible cost of it being stress free, and organised within 2 hours of deciding to make the phone call and book a holiday - that part for me is priceless.
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You know it makes sense.
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p.s. although I can see that if you are going the chalet route - then I think you have no option but to spend the time doing research - in which case you may as well go independent rout
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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bar possibly my firsttrip I've never paid TO hire of skis in advance as its not appreciably cheaper and because I like choice before I mibought my skis. you can't balme toupr ops for ESF policy on class sizes. ESF would have big class sizes anyway. Informed customers can make a choice between cheaper ESF lessons and more expensive but more personal tution in resort. I accept the people going on first trip may not always have knowledge in resort. that said friends who I ski with who love their ski holiday can't necessarily afford the increased costs of more specialist ski schools as they have to pay for mum and 2 kids. I've seen good and bad service from the larger operators. The key issue you need to decide whether you are paying for cheap and cheerful or a more expensive option. The problem comes when you feel you are paying for something that is not being delivered. I'd like to a DIY ski trip primarily to secure a better standard of accomodation without paying through the nose. That said last year I felt we got excetional value for our aprtments in courchevel from Crystal £260 per head for apartments 70 metres from the slopes. We couldn't have hired the apartment for the cost of our accomodation, transfers and flights.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Anyone know any good, moderately priced, chalets in St Anton? (Hotels I can get from the resort website).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lift passes: I checked all the big TOs last year, and the only one to guarantee you wouldn't pay more than resort price was Nielsons. Pay in the UK and you pay for the TO to make sure they don't lose money on the exchange rate.
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If you pre-book any local service in the UK, you may indeed pay slightly more than usual for that very reason - you can hardly expect a company to sell at a loss. I'd always recommend buying pass/equipment hire/lessons on the transfer and pay in Euros. However, it suits a lot of people to pay in advance - I have a friend who comes out every season and prefers to pay for the whole lot up front because she finds it easier to budget and has less to think about when she gets here. Again, each to his own.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Many resorts sell passes on line and you can get them before you travel.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Lizzard, several operators we have travelled with would only accept payment in sterling unless you pay in cash. An expensive option if there are four of you and you need to carry loads of cash with you.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The best experience I've had with a TO ? Arriving late one night in Tignes....our rep, having had a beer or 6, fell (really) out of a car to greet us. His words were 'You look as if you can buy you're own passes.....'  Never saw him again, had a great holiday.....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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We have used Crystal and Inghams in the past. You get what you pay for I suppose. The hols with Crystal were good and there is no way we could have got them cheaper with DIY because of the cheap child places.
I have also done DIY for weekend travel which worked really well, but possibly because I already knew the resort and did not need any other help.
Small TOs can give good service (particularly for transfers) but they can cost a lot more - I suppose you get what you pay for?
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Best experience with a TO? Getting into the hotel at about 10 at night in a panic as we wamted to get out quick to find something to eat only to find they'd cocked up our booking, they'd got us down as HB even though we booked BB so there was food waiting for us!! They wouldn't have it they we were BB so we essentially had free foor for the week.
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dan100, I often defend the ESF when they're being slammed, but if any company (ski school or whatever) gives 25% commission on their public price, it's obvious that the service is not going to be the best. Also, not all alternatives are loads more expensive! Just because a few British schools in the "posh" resorts are, don't think all are. There are also local alternatives which might be better value. The point about using the ESF is that most of the big TOs (not Crystal) use them throughout France and have to, to get the commission. The ESF may be the best ski school in resort A and the worst in resort B. Either way, clients who pay in advance (or on the transfer bus) have no choice. In the past (when I used to socialise with them), some reps here have been banned from socialising with me in case they steered any clients my way!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thomson- rep was an evil cow who hated us!
First Choice- alright reps, not overly amazing
Panorama- EXCELLENT! The reps were fantastic without being overbearing and pushy!
Silverski - yep just phenomenal!
Crystal- hmmm ok - nothing special, dont remember even seeing the rep actually.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Nadenoodlee, aah, the elusive Crystal rep. We tried to find one on our first morning in La Plagne, a few years ago, as they had our lift passes, wasted a whole morning, as they had told us the wrong meeting point in Belle Plagne. Kids missed half a day ski school and everything.We got no apologies or refund. The rep in La Rosiere was brilliant though.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Going with a tour operator certainly makes things more straight forward, however I don't think that it takes a particularly experienced traveller to travel independently these days, especially as more and more of us have had experience of bargain flights from the lo-cost airlines. Once you've organised a trip once or twice then you soon realise that it's no biggy.
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How many TOs or TO staff have you ever met who are actually personally affected by whether a client's holiday is successful.
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easiski, We are a small TO and I am personally affected when a clients holiday is successful. I have to say as we were a start up company and it was our first season last year we certainly didn't make any money out of our company for ourselves (anyone who runs a small business in its early stages I'm sure can relate to this!) and so you do have to find satisfaction in your work else where. For me that certainly came from seeing people enjoying the holiday experience that we were giving them. We work in resort and manage our chalet and company ourselves dealing with people day to day and ensuring that people do have the best holiday they can have. I would hope that we feel the same way towards our clients as you do to those and come and take lessons from you. As a small TO a huge majority (as we are realising this year) of your guests are repeat customers so it is vital that they go away having had a positive experience and wanting to come back as that is how eventually one day you will make some money! We have also spent the time researching the suppliers that we use to make sure that our guests do recieve quality equipment at a resonable price. Our guests will also never pay more than the normal retail price for their lift passes and in many cases they will in fact pay less.
I agree that this is not necessarily the case when working for larger tour operators, which I have done myself also. I think if you don't have a vested interest in the company you can't feel the same way about it and I wouldn't expect people to do so. This however is something that you should factor in when you are choosing the type of holiday that you want to go on. If you go for the deals that you can sometimes get with the larger companies you will get what you pay for and in many cases that will mean a delay at the airport waiting for a transfer etc. but if you have saved yourself some money?! When you book with a larger company it is inevitable that you are one of the 50,000 for example and that has to reflect on the serivce that you get but also probably on the price that you get. It is up to you to decide what is more important.
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You know it makes sense.
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DIY better if you go to to the USA or Canada - and pathetically easy in the internet era. If you can log on to SnowHeads you can book a holiday. Flight + Transfer/car hire + hotel = Package. You can get lift tickets cheap in advance via independent specilaists (Ski Independence highly recommended)
Club/group events are the only things that make me use TOs these days... And I have been in a few big TO Chalets where I have had the distinct feeling we were spoiling the Chalet Girls' holiday...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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the staff that they employ are top-notch on costumer service.
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The key point indeed! Now, tell me how I train that effectively in the space of a week to 18-year-olds with no work experience, and you can set yourself up as a management consultant and charge a fortune.
PS. I take it you meant 'customer' rather than 'costumer'. Or are you offering a dressmaking service as well as everything else?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lizzard, Employ older people.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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They have kids, mortgages, proper jobs etc etc, and you can't find several hundred of them willing to do waitressing/chambermaiding for five months. Sensible suggestions only please.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Our chalet staff this season were 26,28,42,44,21,28
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Frosty the Snowman, funny shape. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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laundryman, ssssshhhhh, All the totty were actually very fit 
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Frosty the Snowman, when did I mention chalets?
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Frosty the Snowman, our chalet boy was good value as well.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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stoatsbrother, Banff was cheaper through a TO, I couldn't get Air Canada flights for what the package cost me. (This was before Zoom though).
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Lizzard, What did you mention?
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FAQ
