However, trying them has upset my apple cart a bit and has left me pondering that – if only one pair of skis is allowed – whether it’s better to
a. have a short radius ski and accept that you will make no adrenaline-pumping monster long turns, but instead will make a lot of pleasurable small turns or,
b. have a longer radius ski, get your adrenaline rush, but have to boss it about from time to time, which is not always fun.
What do you think? More importantly, what do you *do*? Compromise, or not?
So to get back to the question:
c. have a longer radius ski with a narrower width. Adrenaline rush and easier short turns.
A couple of other posters have said get a long length slalom ski or a masters GS ski, I'd be inclined to agree.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Je suis un Skieur, This thread has got busy whilst I've been out skiing today! A couple of very interesting posts from you though, so I'll touch on those first.
I just had an awesome day on the Salomons. There was no new snow and the groomers had been out in a few places, so there was some hardpack cordury, and also some wind-blown icy slopes, which they simply ate up. Interestingly I found I could actually make long turns with a bit of drifting. Such was the feel and feedback from the skis that, although they didn't have the locked on rails feeling of my old Mantras, they never felt out of control and were a lot of fun.
So, if the sudden ease of skiing and that lovely 'flickable' feel I'm experiencing is down to the ski's width, rather that the short radius, then that means that there's no such thing as an all mountain ski that's is going to be as enjoyable to ski on piste as the Salomon is . How disappointing.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
under a new name wrote:
that the SL10s are a fairly full on slalom ski? But I am prepared to concede the doubt.
It's also got a bit to do with the skier, right?
Absolutely it has. We all have our preferred turn style and radius and our choice of favourite ski will be the one that gives the most joy in that mode.
The SL10s are the entry level retail race ski (we're not talking FIS), there is an SL12 and an SL Pro above them.
@Je suis un Skieur, ta. I don't really follow Salomon
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Je suis un Skieur, @under a new name, Dragging this slightly off track again - It is an interesting question about whether one finds it easier to do Short Turns on on a Longer Radius ski, rather than the other way around.
Personally, I'm not entirely sure. I think at slower to moderate speeds for L/Turns, I agree with UANN; at higher speeds for L/Turns, I agree with Je suis un Skieur.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 19-12-23 13:51; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
greengriff wrote:
So, if the sudden ease of skiing and that lovely 'flickable' feel I'm experiencing is down to the ski's width, rather that the short radius, then that means that there's no such thing as an all mountain ski that's is going to be as enjoyable to ski on piste as the Salomon is . How disappointing.
Unfortunately, I do think that is the hard truth of the matter. Everything in skiing is a compromise!
The AM one stick compromise is to drop down to something nearer 80mm in my view but not everyone will agree.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
under a new name wrote:
@greengriff, did you like the Mantras?
Yes and no. I absolutely loved the fact that I could nail heart-pounding big turns on them and feel safe doing so. I loved that they would just smash through the shittiest conditions without even blinking. I also loved the fact I could go just randomly go off the side of the piste whenever I spotted good snow. They were also very easy to slide around at low speeds, and very quick to scrub off speed, which is mighty useful.
What I didn't like is that, for probably 70% of my skiing time it felt like I was skiing with two iron bars on my feet. They were utterly dead unless you were absolutely hammering it. They were also ponderous edge to edge and required a very deliberate skiing style. They were hard work in moguls. They were also very, very squirrely when running them flat on their bases, which is something I never got used to.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 15-12-23 18:01; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Je suis un Skieur, If you are only on piste, for sure.
Or, of course, learn to ski powder on skinny skis?
P.S. I could carve my 54m SLs ...
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
under a new name wrote:
Or, of course, learn to ski powder on skinny skis?
:
Is there some special technique to it? Or is it a matter of just leaning back and accepting the leg-burn? I tried some deepish snow on the Salomons yesterday. It wasn't a lot of fun!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Je suis un Skieur wrote:
c. have a longer radius ski with a narrower width. Adrenaline rush and easier short turns.
So my choice is nifty short turns and drifty long ones, or hard(er) work short turns and awesome long turns? Ho hum. What about so-called 'multi turn/multi radius' skis? Is that just marketing balls, or are they for real? If they are, then that would seem to be the answer?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Old Fartbag wrote:
Personally, I'm not entirely sure. I think at slower to moderate speeds for L/Turns, I agree with UANN; at higher speeds for L/Turns, I agree with Je suis un Skieur.
I wouldn't disagree for slower turns. I said earlier my one stick quiver for years has been Kastle MX83s and I grew up on Rossi 9X Pros. The Kastles are full camber, stiff and damp. You can ski slowly on them if you want but it's a bit pointless so that influences my comments. For sure, if I was teaching, I'd take my Magnums. I distinctly remember taking some Rossi 9S Pros out once at a ski test thinking "this'll be fun" but I couldn't ski in my "default" style at all. Back to the drawing board that day!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
under a new name wrote:
Or, of course, learn to ski powder on skinny skis?
I did. And I've been heli-skiing on the original Stockli Stormrider XLs. The XL part of it being a 75mm waist!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
greengriff wrote:
under a new name wrote:
Or, of course, learn to ski powder on skinny skis?
Is there some special technique to it? Or is it a matter of just leaning back and accepting the leg-burn? I tried some deepish snow on the Salomons yesterday. It wasn't a lot of fun!
It's never a matter of leaning back and getting thigh burn.
IME.
On straight skis, there was often a lot of "bouncing" and shorter radius type turns involved.
The other way to turn, was to press the skis down into the snow as you turned....and then soften the legs so as to let the upward pressure of the snow bring the skis to the surface, when they could be turned. It was like skiing invisible bumps.
The skis spent a lot of the time "In" the snow, but had to come to the surface to turn. Speed was your friend.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mike Pow wrote:
For a recreational skier I'd recommend a centre mounted bi-directional twin tip with dimensions 120-125mm in the tip, 85-95mm in the waist and length roughly 10-15cm shorter than your height.
That will cover you for all eventualities.
Interesting thank you, although I felt I had all eventualities covered with the Mantras, they just weren't that enjoyable most of the time. My Atomics do most of what the Mantras did but are more enjoyable more of the time, but trying the Salomons has opened my eyes to just how much fun the right ski for the prevailing conditions can be.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
greengriff wrote:
They were also ponderous edge to edge and required a very deliberate skiing style. They were hard work in moguls. They were also very, very squirrely when running them flat on their bases, which is something I never got used to.
That'll be the width then...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Old Fartbag wrote:
...The skis spent a lot of the time "In" the snow, but had to come to the surface to turn. Speed was your friend.
That's sort of how I found myself with the Salomons in the deeper stuff yesterday. I could bring them to the surface, but the level of work involved took a lot of the fun out of it. It's probably moot because I'm a hopeless powder skier. I could get away with having no clue a bit on the Mantras because they just wanted to stay on top of the snow on their own accord.
there seems to be a lot of focus on the AM ranges .. lots of innovation from manufacturers. youre getting a mid 80s ski that can out perform many skiers "slalom" input as well as their "gs" input and a ski that will not deflect in chopped crud and will hold its own in boot deep snow ... there are skis with carbon weaves etc that are torsionally strong with softer tips through different rocker shapes and lengths and shaped tails, some forgiving and some that bite . Find one that has a radius to match your skiing, they will take the stiffness down a notch or two so you can mix the turn up (shorten) without wearing yourself out doing so .. try a Ripstick 88 .. I was out recently on a performance AM ski at 76mm underfoot ..it does everything but needed input to shorten which i wasnt up to .. got back on my 88s and it was what skiing is all about ..fun at all speeds and shapes without compromising my ability
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 15-12-23 18:39; edited 4 times in total
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Old Fartbag wrote:
The other way to turn, was to press the skis down into the snow as you turned....and then soften the legs so as to let the upward pressure of the snow bring the skis to the surface, when they could be turned. It was like skiing invisible bumps.
The skis spent a lot of the time "In" the snow, but had to come to the surface to turn. Speed was your friend.
That's it! I taught myself that technique doing laps of a well known off piste area above St Martin. I've always found it hard to describe but that's pretty good. I think of it as as almost the complete opposite of a carved turn where you would increase the pressure and extend your leg into the apex of the turn, instead relaxing the pressure and shortening the legs at roughly the same point.
And I'll forever be grateful to the aforementioned Stockli Stormriders because they most definitely taught me that speed is your friend, however crap the snow!
Back to the OP's original question, it's much easier to make a short radius ski do long radius turns than the other way around.
That's interesting, and is the first time I've heard that said. If it's true then that would make a short radius ski the right ski for me. I'd previously been told the opposite, but I must say I found it a lot easier to make the Salomons do long turns today than I did making the Brahmas do short ones previously, so what you said rings true to me.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
limegreen1 wrote:
.. try a Ripstick 88 ..
I love my Vantage 90s. Unfortunately they are not here with me to compare directly to the Salomons, so I can see just how much extra fun (if actually any) the Salomons are.
After all it is free
After all it is free
greengriff wrote:
What about so-called 'multi turn/multi radius' skis? Is that just marketing balls, or are they for real? If they are, then that would seem to be the answer?
It's not total balls. It's where the ski's flex pattern, shape or camber allows it to bend into a radius that isn't possible just from the pure geometry. All skis change radius according to how hard you pressure them and the edge angle.
Kastle have had their "elliptical radius" for years whereby (IIRC) the tip and tail have the profile of one radius and the centre/overall ski another. So depending on how hard you tip and pressure it, it will turn in different shapes. The reviews for the narrower MX skis have always commented on how they can be skied just as comfortably slowly as flat out.
The wider ones have a reputation for being very stiff and damp and needing a very powerful style to get them to do different things - rather like most generations of the Mantra.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Je suis un Skieur wrote:
The SL10s are the entry level retail race ski (we're not talking FIS), there is an SL12 and an SL Pro above them.
What are differences between the models. Apart from a better binding on the 12 and Pro, I can't see any. Salomon's website is unhelpful and describes all three skis in the same way. They also have identical dimensions.
Also, is there any issue with Salomon's build-quality? The reason I ask is that there's a pair of SL10s on eBay, and one of them is delaminating in exactly the same spot that one of my pair of rental ones is delaminating. A strange coincidence!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Well, you can't go real fast on SLs, so they're out for me. GS not quick enough. Neither really get it done in fresh snow. So I favor a piste-oriented all mtn ski all days except deep ones. I'd mention that I love my Mantras but folks are probably tired of reading that so I won't.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
greengriff wrote:
Je suis un Skieur wrote:
The SL10s are the entry level retail race ski (we're not talking FIS), there is an SL12 and an SL Pro above them.
What are differences between the models. Apart from a better binding on the 12 and Pro, I can't see any. Salomon's website is unhelpful and describes all three skis in the same way. They also have identical dimensions.
Good question, I don't know for sure and you're right about the website. I would assume increasing levels of stiffness, maybe thicker titanal and higher quality base materials on the Pro. One obvious difference is the plate. The 12 and Pro have got a different plate to the 10 and that's probably the main reason for the 10 being labelled intermediate/advanced whereas the other two are advanced only. The 10 and 12 are most likely the same ski with just the plate being different.
I see the SL12 was Tester's Choice in Skieur magazine. I love Skieur reviews, they're hilarious, they call a spade a spade and pull no punches so if they say it's good, it must be. They once called a Salomon ski that I owned with the very rare "full-on" plate (as opposed to the normal retail plate) "nasty". I couldn't stop laughing and I never saw that plate reviewed anywhere else ever again. The normal version generally got very good reviews.
And they were right too! I liked the ski when I was a seasonaire but man they were hard work if you'd just turned up for a punter week.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Je suis un Skieur,
It's very rare for me to take my own skis and last week I had the benefit of being able to choose and swap to my heart's content.
You usually get brand new stuff at Mountain Story, but this week it was much busier than usual on Sunday morning of the first week of the season.
They asked me what I like and I piped up that I usually would have a pair of Head Magnums, to tell you the truth I found them a bit squirrely that day .. took them back in the afternoon.
I asked could I go for something a bit "softer" perhaps a pair of Kastle, they fixed me up with a pair of Kastle dx73, brand new. These were the most delightful pair of skis I've ever ridden, they are intermediate skis but were so smooth and silky and held a firm smooth edge.
Unfortunately they could not offer insurance on them, they were just too expensive.
I still took them back and just got them a size bigger.
Now I know what pair of skis to ask Father Christmas for, if he ever asks me.
It was snowing hard on the last day and visibility was not great, a good excuse to stay down low near the hire shop and work on my deep snow technique.
So another pair of boards were required. This time I took Salomon “Stance” 80mm wide and in girly colours, but brand new of course.
Another delightful light intermediate ski, just perfect for showing off in the deep new stuff down the side of the baby lift.
But …. It would be nice to try something else, perhaps a wide Kastle…
I trotted back to the hire shop again and this time they put me on a pair of Kastle MX88.
It took me about 10 minutes to decide these were way above my pay grade, I was not enjoying the ride at all.
So just one more trip back to the rental shop, and claim back the previous pair of “Stance” in girly colours.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Old Fartbag wrote:
...It's never a matter of leaning back and getting thigh burn.
This. Don't do that on a snowboard either.
"Straight" skis did have a sidecut, contrary to what these young whippersnappers would have us believe.
Old Fartbag wrote:
...there was often a lot of "bouncing" and shorter radius type turns involved. The other way to turn, was to press the skis down into the snow as you turned....
You still see a lot of "bouncers" even on modern gear; I always assumed it was a ski school "quirk" (like those little snowploughs some folk have...). With GS skis, back in the day, well you just needed better balance and skills than the guys on the Miller Softs. For sure there were fewer people capable of that than there are of using modern skis.
Sidecut. You can google the physics of it. As discussed, most sidecuts are complex, and for snowboards at least you may have taper in there too. If you approximate to a single radius, then the speed you're riding, the angle you're angulated, and the radius are related. So if you're riding a snowboard and you want to "get low", you'd probably want a big sidecut which requires you to be more angulated to hold the edge at the same speed than a smaller sidecut would. I don't ride (or ski!) that way, so I don't care about that.
I ride small sidecut snowboards, usually at higher speeds than the folk on bigger sidecuts. I'm not sure entirely how that works. I'm not smearing or slipping the turns, the board just has a range of flex, and I can shift my weight to manipulate the above physics. I think I can throw down long or short radius turns. I'd normally do long radius if it's quick and small radius if it's not; I'm not exactly sure if I can pull any radius turn at any speed; something to try when bored.
In powder, the mechanics are different.... you're riding the base not the edge. I reckon the radius of the sidecut isn't terribly relevant. Taper is, a bit. GS and SL gear is mostly horrid in powder because the snowboards are too narrow, and don't have the correct flex characteristics. If you have good balance you can ride them, but no one who can would want to.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@DrLawn, that made me laugh, thanks for sharing.
Just a couple of observations, the Kastle DX range is (I believe) Kastle's attempt to access a lower end of the market but they're still far from cheap. But they must have been old stock because this year's is a DX72. Good to hear that you liked them.
The Stance range has had good reviews everywhere, especially for the price. But I'm confused by the girly colours reference. The men's are mainly black and grey. The women's are aqua and lilac...? If it's any consolation, I'm fairly sure they're identical apart from the girly topsheet.
It literally took me years to find somewhere to test the mythical Kastle MX83 and I took the opportunity to do a back-to-back test with the MX88. I skied the same circuit, on slopes that I know extremely well. I honestly didn't feel that I was skiing any better on the MX88 than I was on my Head Magnums, that were my daily at the time, even though they're very different skis. But as I said earlier, I never really liked the Magnums anyway. I always thought I should have bought the 177cm instead of the 170cm but they were the best ski left in an end-of-season sale when I turned up for the last couple of weeks of the season one year, and that was the only size, so I bought them anyway because it was cheaper than renting.
What was interesting though, was the SkiTracks data for my test. I had quite literally just skied my home slope 20km/h faster than I'd ever skied it before on the MX83 without even noticing. I wasn't trying to and if I hadn't seen the data I wouldn't have believed it. The MX88 data was the same speed as the Magnums and it wasn't an anomoly, my daily top speed has been higher than it used to be ever since.
So it's horses for courses. I like hooning around the 3Vs on a ski I trust implicitly and the MX83 is clearly in the sweet spot for my preferred speed/style/technique. If you've found a Kastle that fits your sweet spot, I'm happy for you. Here's to Santa!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Je suis un Skieur, I got hit by a (very rare for me) stroke of good luck today: I happened across a Salomon demo stall and they had both the SL12 and the GS12 available to test. The guy there said that their website is poo-poo because 'consumers don't like details' (!) and told me that the difference between the 10 and 12 models is the binding system and the thickness of the metal layers (on the 10 models each layer is 0.4mm and on the 12 models each layer is 0.6mm).
So I took out the SL12: it felt a little more sharp and serious than the SL10, but I'm not convinced the difference is worth an extra £300.
Then I took out the GS12 and it was a big surprise. Having never skied that type of ski before I was expecting something that felt edgy and aggressive and like it might send me to hospital if I wasn't 100% on it. Kind of like a Rottweiler vs the Jack Russell of the SL10. Instead it was exceedingly mellow and easy to ski. Like, *really* easy going, but it just ran up to very high speeds very quickly. I could feel the extra loading and forces through my body when making and holding turns but, such was its calm demeanor, if it wasn't for the fact of having my previous runs for reference I would not have believed it how fast it was. On my end-of-week very tired legs I definitely preferred it to the SL10, as it was notably less jittery (presumably because I was spending more time riding the sweet spot of the sidecut radius rather than outside it?) but it lacked a little bit of the nippy fun factor. I guess the answer is to have both: the SL for busy days, and the GS for quiet days. If only I had that option!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@greengriff, There is also the GS Pro with a smaller sidecut radius than the GS12 but more expensive still. All the skis you tried are recreational ones, they shouldn't be that scary.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@rjs, That's good to know, thank you. Any idea why the pro GS has a shorter radius than the 10 and 12? The pro SL has the same radius as the lower models.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
Well, you can't go real fast on SLs
@Scooter in Seattle, seriously??
A friend beat me in the Inferno on 165 FIS SLs, I was on (something like, can't quite recall) ~205 SGs.
@Je suis un Skieur, My first afternoon heli-skiing was on 9X Oversize Shocked just to prove I could.
Quite tiring.
Just to put it all into some sort of context, I spent a few hours out yesterday on Dynastar Speed Masters (70mm) and a few hours today on my own Blizzard Bonafides (98mm) - my Bonafides were enormously easier to ski on and much snappier ...
@under a new name, good for them, hope you didn't wager much. But also, your friend would have been even faster on your skis, and more stable. They have GS/SG skis for reasons you apparently bought into, presumably correctly. You just got beat by a faster guy. Chaps me too!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I think there is too much focus on the turn radius here without much discussion on the flex of the ski. I can't comment on how stiff the Salomon are, but Salomon aren't generally known for making stiff, damp skis. You like you're Vantage, which are a fairly easy flexing ski. Based on what you say you didn't like about the Mantra, I could have told you you wouldn't like the Barhmas. Both those skis, are fairly stiff, damp skis. I think what's really happening here is you just don't like stiff, damp skis. Which is fine. It just pays to know what type of ski you prefer. I really don't think this particular situation is based on side cut, it's the flex and dampness.
I really don't think this particular situation is based on side cut, it's the flex and dampness.
Thank you. Interesting take. I wonder if @Je suis un Skieur will chime in?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I have a quiver , pretty much of two now. Although I do have something in the middle that is very old. a 68 mm fake slalom type par and a 90mm pair
After all it is free
After all it is free
greengriff wrote:
TOLOCOMAN wrote:
I really don't think this particular situation is based on side cut, it's the flex and dampness.
Thank you. Interesting take. I wonder if @Je suis un Skieur will chime in?
He's got a point for sure and to an extent I agree with him. I was going to make a very similar comment yesterday regarding your Mantra feedback but we were so focused on you discovering "race" skis that I thought it best not to confuse the issue further. IMO we're back to a waist width conversation.
Let's look at the evidence. You disliked your Mantras 70% of the time because they were too heavy and ponderous and felt dead unless you were hammering it. 100% that says you don't like damp skis. But it may also say that you simply don't have the technical skills to get the best out of them. The counter argument is that you've loved being out on some slalom and GS skis. Slalom and GS skis, even recreational ones, are also stiff and damp. When I called the SL10s punter slalom skis, it means they're soft compared to a "full on" slalom ski but you'd never call any slalom ski "soft" per se.
So what's the conclusion? I'll be honest, and I hope you're not offended, I had you in the "advanced punter" skill bracket. Confident and experienced but doesn't necessarily ski in a technically correct manner. Can ski at speed but can't carve. IME, it's not unusual at all for that category of skier to think slalom skis are amazing. The "revelation" of a slalom ski is the instant edge grip they get for so little edge angle compared to whatever they normally ski, which they equate to greater control. But that instant edge grip is primarily down to the skinny waist, and the associated stiffness of a slalom ski, that makes it bite quickly. A simarly stiff wider ski will bite exactly the same if you get it to the same edge angle but getting it to the same angle requires far greater angulation and a higher skill set to achieve it.
Then I re-read your first post and saw that you're an ex-boarder. So I want to know what your boarding skill level was? Could you carve a board or were you a "rear foot shuffler"? If there's one thing I've concluded about boarders that convert to planks, it's that they're not afraid of speed and inherently understand that speed is your friend. A large number of them also understand the principles of standing on an edge and letting the equipment do the work, i.e. carving. So you may be a better (piste) skier than I gave you credit for.
If that's the case, and you want just one ski, we're back to the "what's the middle ground" option. Before "fat" skis existed, GS skis were often mooted as the best option for off piste. Not because they would float but because they would give you the speed and stability to allow you to ski through deep snow rather than on top of it. You still can. A stiff AM ski is somewhere in-between, sometimes you might be skiing over the top, other times you're cutting through and skiing the base. A softer AM ski is biased to being on the top but will be weaker on piste as a result.
So the question is, if you used the 80/20 rule, what are your real priorities in a one-ski quiver? I reckon from your posts that you've based your current and previous ski choices closer to 20/80 than 80/20; it might be time to reassess what really matters for you to have a fun week's skiing.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Je suis un Skieur,
Quote:
"rear foot shuffler"
Too funny. Is that what my mother was afraid of when I spent too long in the WC as a teenager?
But seriously, good points. Although I would argue, having spaffed out a few years back on a pair of very full bore FIS SLs, that "The "revelation" of a slalom ski " is probably not limited to any technical grade of skier, myself considering me to be at least, err, experienced if not capable
I suspect you're right - if OP "was" a boarder, unless serious time and dollar has been spent, I hope @greengriff, isn't offended as I am guessing you're pretty spot on in your analysis.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
. How disappointing.
