 Poster: A snowHead
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Just for reference the all seasons that didn't impress us on their 2nd winter are 2019 Vredestein Quadtrac Pros.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have a seperate set of rims with winter tyres. Takes me about 45 minutes to change over. Brought an impact driver and proper hydralic jack to make changing over easier. Just remember that winters tend to be directional so check before you mount them. I have a full size spare and keep the winter mounted as would rather be driving on 3 summers and a winter in summer rather than 3 winters and a summer in a snow storm. I also run them slightly narrower as gives more clearance for chains.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@pam w, thought I might be disappearing down a rabbit hole when I started. Better to know in advance.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ousekjarr wrote: |
For those with TPMS with sensors attached to the valves which show a PSI reading per wheel, I bought a programming tool online for £20 to avoid having to pay the local main dealer to do it, which was £50 each time they were changed. Took me 5 minutes to work out how to get started, and 3 minutes to complete the process.
Yes, you can get a cloned set to avoid the reprogramming, but if you need to rotate the wheels then you need to either reprogram or swap the tyres between rims instead. And even without the reprogramming you need to mark them all up so you know which goes where.
Have the winters on steel rims to avoid chain damage to expensive alloys. Make sure you can fit chains because you may need them.
Also watch out for clueless fitters who have never had to deal with directional tyres. Putting them on backwards makes them perform really badly. |
Depends on the brand of car, bmw, mini, Porsche etc will all automatically sync sensors without any programming.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm just in the process of searching out a set of 2nd hand alloys that will fit so I can get some all-seasons for the drive to the alps at half term. Shame my old ones don't fit so they have gone up for sale. At the moment probably going for the Michelin Cross Climate 2 SUV which appear to get good reviews all round.
I was hoping I could get just all seasons for my normal alloys but virtually none available without spending £300+ a tyre so cheaper to get a 2nd set of alloys and smaller tyres (which will then last longer as I will switch between them)
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@Rob_Quads, why do you need alloys?
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@pam_w because there are virtually no all-season tyres that fit my wheel sizes. Frustratingly in the US you get all-season with the car but not in the UK. As a result I will need to get some smaller wheels which there are more options tyre wise.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Rob_Quads wrote: |
I'm just in the process of searching out a set of 2nd hand alloys that will fit so I can get some all-seasons for the drive to the alps at half term. Shame my old ones don't fit so they have gone up for sale. At the moment probably going for the Michelin Cross Climate 2 SUV which appear to get good reviews all round.
I was hoping I could get just all seasons for my normal alloys but virtually none available without spending £300+ a tyre so cheaper to get a 2nd set of alloys and smaller tyres (which will then last longer as I will switch between them) |
Beware that the CC2 and the CC2 SUV isn’t the same tyre, and according to reviews, the CC2 are the better tyre.
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If you're going for a spare set of wheels then definitely fit full on winters, no point in compromising. Not sure if you'll need chains but now's a good time to keep an eye on ebay, loads of thule/konig k-summits popping up.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've got snow socks as an emergency but keep an eye out on eBay for full chains too.
The full winters vs all-seasons is an interesting one - From the reviews I have been reading there isn't that much between full winters and the all-seasons and given that the majority of the time the wheels won't be used in snow the all-seasons are often the better option to go for.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You need a spare set of wheels, but you don't need alloys? Why pay that extra? I would think proper winters and snow socks would be fine. Snow socks don't last long when used in anger, but they're rarely needed for long if you have good winter tyres.
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Unfortunately due to the size of the brakes etc you can't just get a set of standard steels thus why need to get alloys.... they also look horrible 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Rob_Quads wrote: |
| Unfortunately due to the size of the brakes etc you can't just get a set of standard steels thus why need to get alloys.... they also look horrible |
Can you get "Michelin Latitude Cross" in price, size etc criteria ? They are a really good tyre if suitable for your vehicle, more pure winter type but with very good all weather "manners" being quiet and without much in the way of compromise at all.
Unsure of current side markings but did qualify as winter rating prior to demands of snowflake etc moniker.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Rob_Quads wrote: |
| Frustratingly in the US you get all-season with the car but not in the UK. |
The US definition of all season is not the same as the UK/EU.
US All season = UK/EU Summer tyre
UK/EU All season = US All weather tyre
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Poster: A snowHead
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| DanishRider wrote: |
| Beware that the CC2 and the CC2 SUV isn’t the same tyre, and according to reviews, the CC2 are the better tyre. |
Other way round isn't it? CC2 has had mixed reviews (Tyre Reviews think it's great but Auto Bild don't) but CC2 SUV came joint 1st in the only test I've seen, albeit another Tyre Reviews one.
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2023-SUV-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Just for reference the all seasons that didn't impress us on their 2nd winter are 2019 Vredestein Quadtrac Pros. |
That mirrors my experience with Vredesteins. I think the assymetric design works when new but not when it wears. They were great when they were new and they did still work in snow when they were worn (but I have 4wd which helps) but I hated driving at speed in the wet once they were below 4mm. Neither GY nor Michelin were available in my size when I bought the Vredesteins, now both are, so I went with GY for the replacements.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| Beware that the CC2 and the CC2 SUV isn’t the same tyre, and according to reviews, the CC2 are the better tyre. |
Other way round isn't it? CC2 has had mixed reviews (Tyre Reviews think it's great but Auto Bild don't) but CC2 SUV came joint 1st in the only test I've seen, albeit another Tyre Reviews one.
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2023-SUV-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm |
I am not sure there is conclusion on that, but apparently the SUV was originally made for Mercedes, and have better fuel economy, but less snow performance - Unfortunately different tests give different results. My Michelin dealer told me to get the CC2 non SUV for my Tesla Model Y, for beat snow performance, but I could get the SUV for longer range.
In all honesty, I don’t think there is a massive difference.
In that Tyre review test you linked to, they don’t put the CC2 up against the CC2 SUV, so hard to know.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Rob_Quads wrote: |
| The full winters vs all-seasons is an interesting one - From the reviews I have been reading there isn't that much between full winters and the all-seasons and given that the majority of the time the wheels won't be used in snow the all-seasons are often the better option to go for. |
I agree with that logic. A typical alpine trip from the UK might be 1,600 miles of which perhaps 200 max is in genuine winter conditions. Particularly if you've got 4wd, I think full winters are overkill for most UK people.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| DanishRider wrote: |
| In that Tyre review test you linked to, they don’t put the CC2 up against the CC2 SUV, so hard to know. |
I haven't checked but I was kind of assuming that the CC2 SUV would be in completely different sizes to the CC2. Surely the former is aimed at big SUVs with high profile tyres and the latter at normal to low profile tyred vehicles. I'm genuinely surprised if both are options for a Tesla Model Y. Most (all?) EVs have big wheels with very low profiles and very high torque so I'm struggling to see how anybody's SUV tyre would be appropriate for an EV usage profile.
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| DanishRider wrote: |
| I did find this test, but it might be American, and then it is a different version of the tyre |
It is. The CC SUV has been superseded by the CC2 SUV. The test I linked to was for the CC2 SUV.
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| In that Tyre review test you linked to, they don’t put the CC2 up against the CC2 SUV, so hard to know. |
I haven't checked but I was kind of assuming that the CC2 SUV would be in completely different sizes to the CC2. Surely the former is aimed at big SUVs with high profile tyres and the latter at normal to low profile tyred vehicles. I'm genuinely surprised if both are options for a Tesla Model Y. Most (all?) EVs have big wheels with very low profiles and very high torque so I'm struggling to see how anybody's SUV tyre would be appropriate for an EV usage profile. |
Its an odd crossover in specification, that being curb weight / gross vehicle weight. Both a big SUV and significant battery holding EV are in same ballpark in this regard. That simply demands a structural development path that can carry the loading placed on the tyre carcass.
To separate two elements by removing the tread of the tyre for our purposes, it's the remaining carcass that has to be rated to accept the vehicle total load, while remaining within it's durability/ capability criteria.
If you didn't know the vehicle details (brand, market segment etc) as a tyre developer, then the two are all but identical in their requirements.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I am constantly amazed at the nonsense most folk post on this forum this thread is no different most of the chaff on this post is worth ignoring.
I've done the lot spent far too much simple answer get a decent all season on OEM rims and the mandatory chains (I have side fitting overpriced ones which have never been out the box bar on my drive) and you'll be fine. Nothing more to say don't get second sets and don't swap stuff over you're throwing money away.
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| In that Tyre review test you linked to, they don’t put the CC2 up against the CC2 SUV, so hard to know. |
I haven't checked but I was kind of assuming that the CC2 SUV would be in completely different sizes to the CC2. Surely the former is aimed at big SUVs with high profile tyres and the latter at normal to low profile tyred vehicles. I'm genuinely surprised if both are options for a Tesla Model Y. Most (all?) EVs have big wheels with very low profiles and very high torque so I'm struggling to see how anybody's SUV tyre would be appropriate for an EV usage profile. |
Actually you can get the SUV version for the Model Y, but the max speed for the SUV version is 210 km/h, and the model Y goes up to 217 (my version), so that tyre isn’t legal here - What’s left is the normal CC2, which goes up to 270 km/h with the same load index (104).
I doubt that I would be stopped by the police for using the SUV version, but you never know. This also suggest that the CC2 has a harder side profile, which some reviews have suggested being to hard, near to uncomfortable.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sun 10-09-23 22:23; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| I did find this test, but it might be American, and then it is a different version of the tyre |
It is. The CC SUV has been superseded by the CC2 SUV. The test I linked to was for the CC2 SUV. |
My bad - Thought the test was with the CC2 SUV.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| DanishRider wrote: |
Actually you can get the SUV version for the Model Y, but the max speed for the SUV version is 210 km/h, and the model Y goes up to 217 (my version), so that tyre isn’t legal here - What’s left is the normal CC2, which goes up to 270 km/h with the same load index (104).
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Funny enough it's the Model Y I am looking for. Interesting about the SUV vs Normal. Personally I don't think the difference between 210km/h and 217km/h rating makes a difference. It's certainly not illegal or against any rules to fit. I won't be going anywhere near that speed That said looks like michelin them selves recommend the non SUV for the Model Y on 19s
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| Rob_Quads wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
Actually you can get the SUV version for the Model Y, but the max speed for the SUV version is 210 km/h, and the model Y goes up to 217 (my version), so that tyre isn’t legal here - What’s left is the normal CC2, which goes up to 270 km/h with the same load index (104).
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Funny enough it's the Model Y I am looking for. Interesting about the SUV vs Normal. Personally I don't think the difference between 210km/h and 217km/h rating makes a difference. It's certainly not illegal or against any rules to fit. I won't be going anywhere near that speed That said looks like michelin them selves recommend the non SUV for the Model Y on 19s |
You can easily put the CC2 SUV on, but in Germany you have to have a label stating the max speed of the tyre visible to you, if your car goes faster than the tyre rating.
I went with the normal CC2, which by the way is a little less efferent (rating B), so there is definitely some difference between them:-)
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You know it makes sense.
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A quick google suggests that people who have put CC2 SUV on EVs regret it. Lots of comments about how the tyre is too soft to deal with the torque. I see that in the Tesla 255/45R19 104 XL spec it's only an H (130mph) rating so I'm not surprised.
Think I'd be wanting the highest speed rating possible for an EV which in that size/load seems to be either the GY Vector 4S (W - 168mph) or Conti AS (Y - 186mph). The normal CC2 is V - 149mph.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
A quick google suggests that people who have put CC2 SUV on EVs regret it. Lots of comments about how the tyre is too soft to deal with the torque. I see that in the Tesla 255/45R19 104 XL spec it's only an H (130mph) rating so I'm not surprised.
Think I'd be wanting the highest speed rating possible for an EV which in that size/load seems to be either the GY Vector 4S (W - 168mph) or Conti AS (Y - 186mph). The normal CC2 is V - 149mph. |
There's a need to be careful what the maximum speed rating entails for REAL usage. Many discussion getting into a "pissing" further than you type bravado.
Speed rating is primarily about deformation, rotational growth, stability of carcass in centrifugal loading etc. It doesnt necessarily mean a better tyre for low temperature working, quite the opposite in practical application.
Making the carcass suitable for high speed ultimately reduces it's flexibility to achieve that, likely attempts to use less rubber gauge (thickness of tread measured outward from carcass) then putting a very high premium on just the tread component to be flexible in cold conditions. Even low wear can then see this seriously compromised. All of these attributes directly oppose low temperature, low traction slippery surface driving competence.
Cold weather running naturally has more limits speed wise if safety is the primary concern. If it's not primary, then why would someone be considering changing to a low temperature capability tyre in the first place ? 
Nobody in reality driving on public roads in winter is likely to get anywhere close to even an H rated tyre's performance limitations, c'mon let's be honest here.
It's complete fallacy to PREFER even a V rated tyre for winter work, let alone one rated out at 186 mph that really is laughable. These decisions, driven by you and your family safety, seem clear in that there's some compromise ultimately in pure outright dry speed intention and the need for real world safety going to a ski destination in winter.
Comments about them being more flexible should be true, thats ultimately what is needed to bring them into better performance range when used within legal constraints across European public roads in varying weather conditions. Thats not a fault when viewed from the optic of users on here in travelling to go skiing.
Travelling at very high speed in warmer, dryer conditions is the more specialised activity that could need a more focused tyre, it shouldn't cloud what most interest people on a ski forum to safely drive to and from their holiday.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| ski3 wrote: |
| Nobody in reality driving on public roads in winter is likely to get anywhere close to even an H rated tyre's performance limitations, c'mon let's be honest here. |
I've driven right across Germany at 120+mph at -7 degrees in winter. Car wouldn't go any faster.
We're discussing all season tyres, not winters. The point of an all season tyre is that you don't change it during the year and the the winter driving proportion of use is far less than the non-winter use for most people.
So personally I'd like a tyre that I know is also tested to be safe for driving flat out on the autobahn in summer, which potentially means up to the car's limited 155mph.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| ski3 wrote: |
| Nobody in reality driving on public roads in winter is likely to get anywhere close to even an H rated tyre's performance limitations, c'mon let's be honest here. |
I've driven right across Germany at 120+mph at -7 degrees in winter. Car wouldn't go any faster.
We're discussing all season tyres, not winters. The point of an all season tyre is that you don't change it during the year and the the winter driving proportion of use is far less than the non-winter use for most people.
So personally I'd like a tyre that I know is also tested to be safe for driving flat out on the autobahn in summer, which potentially means up to the car's limited 155mph. |
Agree!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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May I reccomend that you consult the car mannual about what speed rating of tyre your car requires and either stick to it or exceed it. It may be an MOT failure or give the insurance company an excuse to refuse to pay out following an accident.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| johnE wrote: |
| May I reccomend that you consult the car mannual about what speed rating of tyre your car requires and either stick to it or exceed it. It may be an MOT failure or give the insurance company an excuse to refuse to pay out following an accident. |
Another valid point !
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
A quick google suggests that people who have put CC2 SUV on EVs regret it. Lots of comments about how the tyre is too soft to deal with the torque. I see that in the Tesla 255/45R19 104 XL spec it's only an H (130mph) rating so I'm not surprised.
Think I'd be wanting the highest speed rating possible for an EV which in that size/load seems to be either the GY Vector 4S (W - 168mph) or Conti AS (Y - 186mph). The normal CC2 is V - 149mph. |
There is actually an Y version of the CC2, that goes up to 300 km/h 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The storage question seems to have gone unanswered, for those that have two sets of tyres what’s the best way to store them?
Any advice would be appreciated as I’m about to go this route, yes I did try to get all season, but that’s another story.
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RE storage - somewhere cool and dry is best. I kept mine in our shed.
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@Rob_Quads, thanks, do you have a rack or store them on top of each other?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@radar, should be in a rack, or otherwise turned regularly
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| DanishRider wrote: |
| There is actually an Y version of the CC2, that goes up to 300 km/h |
Yes, but not in the Tesla 19" size/load rating as far as I can tell.
The CC2 for my Audi 19" wheels are Y rated, as are the GY Vector 4S and a few others. This wasn't the case a few years ago so AS technology has moved on. But not enough to deal with EVs' torque issues by the look of it. The profile's slightly taller for the Tesla vs Audi so I assume that that in combination with the higher EV load rating and an all season compound creates an issue. There seem to be plenty of summer tyre options for the Tesla 19" that are Y rated.
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FAQ
