 Poster: A snowHead
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@GreenDay, I think it’s fair to say you’re not English, so you don’t know what a English person sees when they see Scottish politics on TV.
As for Scottish skiing, I’ve been once for one day & fair to say I wasn’t rushing back.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| GreenDay wrote: |
IIRC, English tourists make up the largest numbers in Scotland (although obviously not all skiing).
It certainly helps to be on the spot, but it's not inconceivable to travel up from northern England.....indeed I think Mountainaddict of this parish does just that. |
When jumping a "single" on the t-bar at Glencoe it's not uncommon to meet folk from Newcastle, Durham, Leeds or even Manchester. Generally up for weekend and having a great time
| russ_e wrote: |
| We live in the north of England but have never been to a Scottish ski resort. |
I have never been to Meribel : therefore I tend not to comment on those threads  |
Let’s use the couple from Leeds as an example. What are the costs for weekends skiing in comparison to a weekend in a resort close to Geneva?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
As for Scottish skiing, I’ve been once for one day & fair to say I wasn’t rushing back. |
Funnily I have similar views of St Gervais. Went once for a day trip from Chamonix in Jan 2010. It was basically miles of dull low altitude blue pistes. (though to be fair the off piste run off back of Mont Joly to St Nikolas was ok and seem to remember it had a nice view of Mt Blanc)
Never returned. Better places to ski in the Alps
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| stewart woodward wrote: |
Perhaps making English skiers more welcome might help.
The SNP over the past few years have made it clear we are not welcome. |
What an ignorant loud mouthed post (that only fuels division).
a) When did you last ski in Scotland?
b) any evidence to substantiate your brain-fart? or just fishing in hope of reaction? |
Maybe I can help you out here and shine some light on the subject.
As you might remember me saying, my dad was Scottish (a grumpy Scotsman) and I identify as Scottish which kind of gives me an interesting perspective. Let me start by saying that the Scots are a generally friendly and welcoming people but there are a very significant number of us who are anti-English and not shy about showing it. Due to my English accent I've had my fellow Scots tell me on several occasions that I don't qualify to wear a kilt and that they are offended by seeing English people wearing highland dress. The only time I have ever had any anti-English nonsense thrown at me is by Scottish people. Well, obviously my Aussie mates are anti-English but only for comedic effect.
As I mentioned, my dad was a grumpy Scot so I can see how an English person dealing with someone like him could come away with the idea that they were dealing with an anti-English person.
Now let's look at the grumpy, thin skinned, ignorant, cowardly little gobshite that is you. You were convinced I was anti-Scottish just because I strongly disagreed with and took the wee wee (sorry, pish) out of you. But the fact if that I don't like you because you're a **** and you being Scottish has nothing to do with it. I've got way more respect for the things living at the bottom of ponds or hiding under stones than I could ever have for you.
And here's the above translated into Scots English for you:
As ye micht mind me saying, mah da wis scots (a crabbit scotsman) 'n' ah identify as scots whilk kind o' gives me an interesting perspective. Let me stairt by saying that th' scots ur a generally freendly 'n' welcoming fowk bit thare ur a gey significant batch o' us wha ur anti-english 'n' nae timorous aboot showing it. Due tae mah sassenach accent a've hud mah fellow scots tell me oan loads occasions that ah dinnae qualify tae wear a kilt 'n' that they're offended by seeing sassenach fowk sportin' hielan dress. Th' ainlie time ah hae ever hud ony anti-english nonsense thrown at me is by scots fowk. Weel, obviously mah aussie mukkers ur anti-english bit ainlie fur comedic effect.
As ah mentioned, mah da wis a crabbit scot sae ah kin see howfur an sassenach body dealing wi' someone lik' him cuid come awa' wi' th' idea that thay wur dealing wi' an anti-english person.
Now let's keek at th' crabbit, malinky skinned, ignorant, cowardly wee gobshite that is ye. Ye wur convinced ah wis anti-scottish juist fur ah strangly disagreed wi' 'n' teuk th' pish (sorry, pish) oot o' ye. Bit th' fact if that ah dinnae lik' ye fur ye'r a **** 'n' ye bein' scots haes hee haw tae dae wi' it. A've git wey mair respect fur th' hings living at th' bahookie o' ponds or hiding under stanes than ah cuid ever hae fur ye.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| stewart woodward wrote: |
Perhaps making English skiers more welcome might help.
The SNP over the past few years have made it clear we are not welcome. |
I am genuinely interested in why you think English skiers are not made welcome in Scotland. Was it some particular instance you experienced? In my experience we both value and welcome visitors from all over the world and I have never experienced any "anti-English" sentiment when skiing in Scotland (which I have done a huge amount of). The only grumpiness is when people try and cut the line, we can be quite strict on that! But that goes for anyone.
I am also interested in why you think it is the SNP that has made English skiers not welcome. What precisely have they said and done to make you feel that way? You could describe me as somewhat "anti-SNP" but I don't get what they have to do with discouraging English skiers or English visitors more generally. Also there are only 72k SNP members out of 5.5 million people in Scotland, just so you know.
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@zikomo, A very sensible post, agree with all of that.
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| Hamilton Academical wrote: |
Now let's look at the grumpy, thin skinned, ignorant, cowardly little gobshite that is you. You were convinced I was anti-Scottish just because I strongly disagreed with and took the wee wee (sorry, pish) out of you. But the fact if that I don't like you because you're a **** and you being Scottish has nothing to do with it. I've got way more respect for the things living at the bottom of ponds or hiding under stones than I could ever have for you. |
Hi Gerry: you seem to be triggered? Topics with "Scotland" in the title tend to attract the 'snowhead-dregs' for some reason
@zikomo: fully agree. Well done for taking a stand.
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@Haggis_Trap, I’m not taking a stand. Just politely asking what caused the poster to feel that way. Please don’t characterise me with your own way of going about things.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Obviously I don’t know the poster or the reasons for him feeling that way but I’d have a guess that it’s not what any person has actually said or done to him.
You have to admit, when the governing party of a nation basically says “we want nothing to do with you “ it doesn’t sound like you’d be welcome.
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| You have to admit, when the governing party of a nation basically says “we want nothing to do with you “ it doesn’t sound like you’d be welcome. |
That is exactly the reason why I will never ski in England again..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Everyone ...
Ignore the Trolls - feck the politics...
We're all skiers, so actually go and experience it...
I'm a Brit living in the S.W of the country and have skid Alps, US, Japan, Norway but some of my most memorable days have been North of the border.
When it's good it's brilliant, so we should be giving it our support and none of this negative vibe 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| geoffers wrote: |
We're all skiers, so actually go and experience it...
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Good point.
I have been skiing in France, Switzerland, Norway but learned in Scotland and still ski here.
There are a generation of people who went to school in my part of the world, learned the basics at Hillend dry slope, and spent many weekend days and trips up at Glenshee / Aviemore with the school.
We were incredibly lucky to have some teachers who were skiing crazy and I was blessed to have hundreds of ski days in Scotland under my belt before I even left school.
The snow cover and assuredness back in my teens seemed to be a lot larger (could be rose tinted specs  ) and I do worry a bit that poor snow seasons have contributed to some of the ski areas (Aonach Mor, Cairngorm) concentrating more on summer "coffee and cake" visitors than us.
I certainly still ski in Scotland, but I have the luxury of picking and choosing my days, only when its a quiet midweek bluebird etc.
Climate change and cheap flights to europe have inevitably changed (some poeples) view of scottish skiing, but those of us who were brought up on it know the score. Skiing in Scotland has always been very friendly and relaxed - if you are up for a day yourself, you invariably get chatting to people on T-Bars etc, its a totally different vibe from The Alps.
As HT has said, on a good day Scotland delivers in spades, I and many others will continue to support it.
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You know it makes sense.
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If this season is indicative of the current trend it may not be long before some big name alpine resorts encounter similar unreliability.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Peter S wrote: |
| If this season is indicative of the current trend it may not be long before some big name alpine resorts encounter similar unreliability. |
There is certainly an irony that cheap budget flights have contributed to simultaneously climate change and the demise of Scottish skiing.
If this season is anything to go by then any alpine resort with terrain < 2000m are sadly in big trouble.
Similarly the Scottish winters are no doubt becoming less reliable than they were even 20 years ago.
Ultimately the "cheaper to fly to the alps" is a misleading comparison:
1) If there is snow on the ground anyone in Edinburgh / Glasgow / Northern England can drive to the Cairngorms for ~£30-50.
The cost of driving to Scotland wont cover the cost of airport parking, ski carriage and a transfer <etc>.
2) People who ski in Scotland tend to also ski in alps. Its not a binary choice.
Alpine trips tend to be a week booked months in advance.
Scottish skiing is something anyone semi-local can do relatively cheaply, and last minute, every weekend in winter (so long as we have snow).
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sun 9-04-23 8:58; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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One simple reason to love the Scottish ski scene.
You had to learn to use a t bar!!!!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Peter S wrote: |
| If this season is indicative of the current trend it may not be long before some big name alpine resorts encounter similar unreliability. |
If this season is anything to go by then any alpine resort with terrain < 2000m are sadly in big trouble.
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There is plenty of Europe under 2000m which is doing just fine
Expand your horizons
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| GreenDay wrote: |
| geoffers wrote: |
We're all skiers, so actually go and experience it...
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Good point.
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I did, it wasn’t for me and below is what you get if you say so.
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
As for Scottish skiing, I’ve been once for one day & fair to say I wasn’t rushing back. |
Funnily I have similar views of St Gervais. Went once for a day trip from Chamonix in Jan 2010. It was basically miles of dull low altitude blue pistes. (though to be fair the off piste run off back of Mont Joly to St Nikolas was ok and seem to remember it had a nice view of Mt Blanc)
Never returned. Better places to ski in the Alps |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
There is plenty of Europe under 2000m which is doing just fine
Expand your horizons |
1) All credible climate change studies predict vastly reduced snow fall from 1500-2000m (exactly as western Alps saw this winter sadly)
2) I have been luck enough to ski all over Europe. Seasons in France, CH. Toured in Norway. Skied in NZ, Japan, Canada and Argentina etc. The retreat of alpine glaciers such as mer du glace or glacier de meije is astonishing over last 20 years and visible to human eye.
I am in no position to preach on climate change having been lucky enough to travel extensively myself. However these days try to limit myself to 1 (maybe 2 at a push) return flights per year. Hard to deny the climate is a real mess, and humanities biggest challenge, unless your are a flat earther.
What we really need to do is make alps more accessible by long distance high speed train from UK. Eventually take the cheap flights out of the sky. It is ludicrous that Ryan Air & Easy Jet cheaper than the over night snow train if you think from emissions perspective.
Thankfully still don't get bored of skiing in Scotland (when we have snow)..
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sun 9-04-23 14:30; edited 2 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well Glencoe and Glenshee was great in Jan but from mid feb there was no skiing. From a great start to an early close. At least Glencoe has the biking (opened this weekend).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
There is plenty of Europe under 2000m which is doing just fine
Expand your horizons |
1) All credible climate change studies predict vastly reduced snow fall from 1500-2000m (exactly as western Alps saw this winter sadly)
2) I have been luck enough to ski all over Europe. Seasons in France, CH. Toured in Norway. Skied in NZ, Japan, Canada and Argentina etc. The retreat of alpine glaciers such as mer du glace or glacier de meije is astonishing over last 20 years and visible to human eye.
I am in no position to preach on climate change having been lucky enough to travel extensively myself. However these days try to limit myself to 1 (maybe 2 at a push) return flights per year. Hard to deny the climate is a real mess, and humanities biggest challenge, unless your are a flat earther.
What we really need to do is make alps more accessible by long distance we high speed train from UK. Eventually take the cheap flights out of the sky. It is ludicrous that Ryan Air cheaper than the over night snow train if you think from emissions perspective.
Thankfully still don't get bored of skiing in Scotland (when we have snow).. |
I'm certainly not a 'flat earther' but I'm very wary of believing all the science that's being trotted out in the name of saving us from our impending imminent demise
It's based on modelling for the most part, and we saw how that went recently
We've 'survived' a number of doomsday timelines predicted by climate scientists and their mouthpieces, with no admission that they over egged their predictions and no recalibration in their fervour to save us from ourselves
I had a very interesting email correspondence with the author of this prediction recently
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/snowdon-snowless-2020-2281317?fbclid=IwAR1v8E6P8ao6zB0hu9yzaSeFA7KXWZS-6mcTZLwueF0_kMclu_4Ev3MPtfQ
"He (Simon Bareham) said because South Wales is likely to be affected more by global warming than North Wales, he predicts the Brecon Beacons, the Black Mountains and the Cambrian Mountains will also be snow-free by 2020."
The upshot when his prediction was proven to be spectacularly incorrect - my ski partner got 40 days skiing in S Wales in the 2020/21 Winter Season - was
"Although there is no doubt our climate is changing I don’t think I will be making any more snowy statements."
Winter weather is becoming far less predictable in lots of formerly very consistent regions that's for sure, but I'd like to see the total snowfall stats for the past 40 years to see if overall snowfall has declined dramatically or whether it's been recorded when many of the ski areas are not open / have already closed
Scotland is a fantastic destination for skiing
I had a blast on my second visit with two spectacular days.
My first visit for a long weekend driving up from Wales was scuppered by wind. Loads of snow, no lifts running.
Hopefully the millions living within a 6hr drive will continue to support Scottish skiing
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
Winter weather is becoming far less predictable in lots of formerly very consistent regions that's for sure, but I'd like to see the total snowfall stats for the past 40 years to see if overall snowfall has declined dramatically or whether it's been recorded when many of the ski areas are not open / have already closed |
I think climate change is a better term than global warming? As I see it the snowy winters UK/Scotland experienced in 2010,2014 and part of 2020 were just as much an anomaly as recent snowless years. Basically a blocking high leading to long v.cold spells of weather from the east (consistent with gulf stream shutting down due to warming Atlantic).
There is possible scenario where climate change leads to colder winters in UK. For its northern latitude the UK remains remarkably mild. However at present there is no doubt that Scottish winters are getting shorter and less reliable in recent years (as documented by skier days, season length and depths). Sadly all the evidence points to declining snowfall trend all across Europe. At present there is virtually no Easter skiing in Scotland, which is basically unprecedented.
| Mike Pow wrote: |
Scotland is a fantastic destination for skiing.
I had a blast on my second visit with two spectacular days. |
It can be if / when we have snow. However it's not reliable (especially in modern era). Which make marketing to skiers further afield impossible and arguably dishonest. Good on you for making the trip!
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| Hopefully the millions living within a 6hr drive will continue to support Scottish skiing |
Thanks! Keep posting picture of skiing in Wales/ Bosnia etc.
Both destinations I have never skied and look fantastic.
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Well : there's still some optimism here for some possible late April touring...
From WinterHighland...
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However something to watch is that some model runs slow the low down and see it slightly retrogress back towards the Moray Firth. In this scenario, the Northern Cairngorms could see sustained heavy snowfall on Wednesday into the overnight period into Thursday.
On balance across all model output over the past 24 hours, the heaviest precipitation is likely to be over Northern England, but the most recent trend is towards a significant snow event for the Northern Cairngorms with potential snow totals by Friday morning ranging from 20 to over 50cm of new snow!
It will be cooler than of late, with Munro Level temperatures likely to be around -2 or possibly -3°c, in which case snow will fall to below the lower slopes of the ski areas. |
This is consistent with the wxcharts precip. graphics run
http://wxcharts.com/?panel=default&model=ecmwf,ecmwf,ecmwf,ecmwf®ion=uk&chart=overview,850temp,wind10mkph,snowdepth&run=00&step=087&plottype=10&lat=51.500&lon=-0.250&skewtstep=0
Here's hoping ... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
Obviously I don’t know the poster or the reasons for him feeling that way but I’d have a guess that it’s not what any person has actually said or done to him.
You have to admit, when the governing party of a nation basically says “we want nothing to do with you “ it doesn’t sound like you’d be welcome. |
I suspect you are right. Especially as the poster has not responded to polite questioning on what he meant and why he felt that way. Probably just a general impression. It’s a bit of a shame to judge the whole of Scotland based on an impression of the SNP though.
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| zikomo wrote: |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
Obviously I don’t know the poster or the reasons for him feeling that way but I’d have a guess that it’s not what any person has actually said or done to him.
You have to admit, when the governing party of a nation basically says “we want nothing to do with you “ it doesn’t sound like you’d be welcome. |
I suspect you are right. Especially as the poster has not responded to polite questioning on what he meant and why he felt that way. Probably just a general impression. It’s a bit of a shame to judge the whole of Scotland based on an impression of the SNP though. |
That’s what they have done to this country..
Even though I never really felt my days skiing in Scotland was worth it for me, I’d still encourage anyone thinking about it to try for themselves, I’d be very surprised if you made to feel anything other than welcome.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@zikomo, I think that the majority of Scots are welcoming to the English, but a quick Google of "SNP anti English" throws up plenty of bad examples that could give our English neighbours the wrong impression. I feel that if I come across any of our neighbours with the impression they are not welcome, I feel it is incumbent upon us to do our best to dispel that impression rather than go on the attack.
I also feel that the SNP have been going about the goal of achieving independence the wrong way. I get the impression that they take every opportunity to noise up the UK parliament and create a feeling of animosity. I'm sure that also trickles out into the English general publics impression of Scots.
A much better way of getting agreement from the UK gov for another referendum would be to take a more colleiget approach, but continually explain that we "love thy neighbour" like a brother, but don't want to be continually ruled by him, for ever. Let's stay as "friendly neighbours" and equal (sort of) partners.
That being said, I'm not interested in independence, the above is just my cool headed approach to the way I would approach the situation if I did support the SNP. Seems to me there are too many hot heads in the SNP, clearly their strategy is not working so far.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| zikomo wrote: |
I suspect you are right. Especially as the poster has not responded to polite questioning on what he meant and why he felt that way. Probably just a general impression. It’s a bit of a shame to judge the whole of Scotland based on an impression of the SNP though. |
Personally I wouldn't be rushing to take political sides with Stewart Woodward (a french based ski instructor who previously argued in favor of brexit on this forum, thus depriving thousands of youngsters the right to work in EU he enjoys!?). There are plenty of other threads on snowheads for those have nothing to contribute but chuck rocks aimlessly at the SNP.
Keep try to keep this topic on track: The new chair at Glencoe is a game changer. Skiing might no longer be big tourist industry in Scotland (compared to say golf, MTB or north coast 500). But it does fill an otherwise off-peak time of the year and should be supported.
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You do understand, your post “chucks rocks” as you tell others not to, but I’m happy to read that there is investment in a new chair, does it run in summer to allow MTB to take the uplift
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You know it makes sense.
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| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
| Well Glencoe and Glenshee was great in Jan but from mid feb there was no skiing. From a great start to an early close. At least Glencoe has the biking (opened this weekend). |
For Glencoe the problem was most of the snow came down in light winds, you could go pretty much anywhere on the plateau, surface conditions were fantastic. But base building weather it was not.
Ironically March has been colder than average for Northern Scotland, a reminder that mean temperature tells us very little about snow cover and ski conditions on Scottish mountains.
This year had there been a chair on the upper mountain at Glencoe there would have been weeks more skiing as Ski Tow Gully would have been available as a run. The Haggis Trap having insufficient width or depth to the snow bridge to assure that several people stopping in it at the same time wouldn’t have fallen into the abyss and been mauled by the starving haggi is what brought the skiing to an end - there was no alternative route on snow apart from the uptrack.
On the subject of snow reliability, Bob Clyde - a long term general manager on CairnGorm noted in the late 70s:
Snow was generally reliable above 2800ft (top of Gunbarrel). (As it has been this season).
Gully storage of snow could extend reliable cover in a majority seasons to 2500ft by limited routes, some natural snow fields could be relied on in the majority of years, others may come and go.
Snow cover was generally unreliable below 2500ft.
The first two permanent ski lifts starting at 2500ft radiating from the bottom of the Cas Gunbarrel wasn’t coincidental. The reason the base of the lifts got moved down just over 400ft was about where a large carpark could practically be built.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As an aside to the above, for the first 30 years of Glencoe’s existence there was no uplift on the Meall a’ Bhuiridh plateau.
Initially uplift started from 2800ft, before being extended down to 2400ft at the edge of the plateau.
Now there is as much uplift capacity on the plateau as the rest of the mountain combined. This has allowed Glencoe to get more than twice as many skier days in a season that may have ended on 18th Feb, than in the 2017 season.
There maybe is an important lesson there for those setting the direction of travel for CairnGorm and Nevis Range. It’s imperative to have the capacity to ‘make hay when the sunshine’s’.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| JimboS wrote: |
@zikomo, I think that the majority of Scots are welcoming to the English, but a quick Google of "SNP anti English" throws up plenty of bad examples that could give our English neighbours the wrong impression. I feel that if I come across any of our neighbours with the impression they are not welcome, I feel it is incumbent upon us to do our best to dispel that impression rather than go on the attack.
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I broadly agree with the rest of your post. I did not, however, in any way "go on the attack" in fact I did the opposite by politely trying to elicit why the poster felt that way. If you can point out the attack(s) you mention I will be happy to retract if I have indeed mis-spoken. Maybe you meant from someone else, but you did only refer to me by name.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@zikomo, I applaud your polite approach and was not refering to you.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Despite living in London I have enjoyed many times skiing in Scotland over the last 40 years, plus summer holidays. I have never experienced any personal hostility from the Scots. I have been told the Scots never support the English sports teams - which I am sorry for, since the English people I know support all the "home" teams when they play "non-home" teams. But it is always easy for the dominant group to be "magnanimous", so hardly surprising. We probably convey condescension at times without even being aware of it. If I were Scots I can easily imagine wanting independence, though I'll be very sorry if it happens. Scotland is my favourite region of "my" country but I live down here for all the exhibitions and performances that go on here in such profusion.
As for the snow, it has certainly got much less reliable. The first few times I skied Glencoe I could ski down under the chairlift to the carpark, but the last 20 years I have never been able to, though I am sure there must have been occasions you still could. And the same applies to a lesser extent to some places in the Alps such as the Haute Maurienne. But this is just anecdotal.
I think early impressions imprint an attitude. My second experience skiing in Scotland was arriving at the then new Aonach Mor after several days of snowstorms with all lifts closed, and making the first tracks off the back in deep powder. I have kept returning, hoping, but also enjoying the different feel of Scottish skiing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Did a weekend trip to Cairngorm at the end of March in the motorhome from Wales. Great two days of skiing, always fancied skiing Scotland, but the planets never seemed to line up. Everyone was super friendly, people from all over. Scots, English (N&S accents) Dutch and Aussies. I'm hoping to get back when the snow cover means we can ski more of the mountain. Great place. Great campsite (Glenmore) Pinemartin next door for food. Real nice vibe.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| orange wrote: |
| I read this recently and in the round agree. One area I think they did overlook was the opportunity afforded by changing buying patterns caused by climate and cost of living. I’m optimistic that there will be some opportunities for those who decide not to fly or reduce flying and also those who simply cannot afford an overseas holiday but could possibly do a Scotland based break with some skiing included. Who knows. |
Unless you live within a couple of hours drive from a Scottish ski area then it's cheaper to fly to continental Europe |
It probably is but my point is there is a whole raft of change which includes people who either want to not fly and will seek alternatives or those that can’t afford to ski abroad - flights can be cheap but once you add on transport, accom, lift passes etc you might be able to do a mixed holiday with some skiing in Scotland cheaper. I was just interested that it wasn’t even touched on.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| orange wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| orange wrote: |
| I read this recently and in the round agree. One area I think they did overlook was the opportunity afforded by changing buying patterns caused by climate and cost of living. I’m optimistic that there will be some opportunities for those who decide not to fly or reduce flying and also those who simply cannot afford an overseas holiday but could possibly do a Scotland based break with some skiing included. Who knows. |
Unless you live within a couple of hours drive from a Scottish ski area then it's cheaper to fly to continental Europe |
It probably is but my point is there is a whole raft of change which includes people who either want to not fly and will seek alternatives or those that can’t afford to ski abroad - flights can be cheap but once you add on transport, accom, lift passes etc you might be able to do a mixed holiday with some skiing in Scotland cheaper. I was just interested that it wasn’t even touched on. |
Because it's an unfair and unrealistic comparison
If you live within two hours of a Scottish ski area and have your own transportation then you can easily get up early to drive to the resort before first lift; ski all day; stay one night in rented accommodation (self catering, B&B, hotel); ski the next day, and be home for a late dinner quite comfortably and quite cheaply
Two days of Scottish skiing with one overnight stay could easily be done for around £75 per person per day all in
Which is significantly cheaper than the per diem cost of a 7-day trip to continental Europe or Scandanavia
But it's not a fair comparison
The comparison should be with a person living in somewhere like Milan driving up to a resort like Madesimo for the same drive time using private transportation for the same time frame
The costs will be very similar, possibly a bit cheaper in Italy
Similarly a self-drive holiday to Scotland should be compared with a self-drive holiday from the UK to continental Europe
Not something I've done, so can't comment on those prices
Taking public transportation within the UK to a Scottish Ski Area (plane or train if you don't want to fly) and the associated UK cost of accommodation, food, ski pass is in my experience significantly more than the a UK Tour Operator or independent trip to continental Europe over a 7-day time frame
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
Taking public transportation within the UK to a Scottish Ski Area (plane or train if you don't want to fly) and the associated UK cost of accommodation, food, ski pass is in my experience significantly more than the a UK Tour Operator or independent trip to continental Europe over a 7-day time frame |
Obviously depends where you start from... Glasgow, for example, is just x1.5hrs by bus from Glencoe. Though Scotland remains a destination almost primarily for weekenders. There is valid reason Crystal don't offer 7 day packages to Aviemore
Ultimately what you seem to be complaining about is that Easy Jet / Ryan Air can fly you to the alps for less than the cost of taking a train within UK.
I would tend to agree with that! It is absolutely bonkers. Primarily it is a function of preferential (zero) tax rates on aviation fuel which ignore resulting CO2 emissions from flying versus other forms of transport.
Fwiw: I would love to be able to take the train to alps - but it always costs much more than flying (especially from Scotland).
| Quote: |
| At present, although road fuel is charged excise duty, which represents a substantial proportion of the pump price paid by motorists, aviation kerosene (AVTUR) which is used in jet engines is exempt from tax. |
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn00523/
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
Taking public transportation within the UK to a Scottish Ski Area (plane or train if you don't want to fly) and the associated UK cost of accommodation, food, ski pass is in my experience significantly more than the a UK Tour Operator or independent trip to continental Europe over a 7-day time frame |
Obviously depends where you start from... Glasgow, for example, is just x1.5hrs by bus from Glencoe. Though Scotland remains a destination almost primarily for weekenders.
Ultimately what you seem to be complaining about is that Easy Jet / Ryan Air can fly you to the alps for less than the cost of taking a train within UK.
I would tend to agree with that! It is absolutely bonkers. Primarily it is a function of preferential (almost zero) tax rates on aviation fuel which ignore resulting CO2 emissions.
Fwiw: I would love to be able to take the train to alps - but it always costs much more than flying (especially from Scotland).
| Quote: |
| At present, although road fuel is charged excise duty, which represents a substantial proportion of the pump price paid by motorists, aviation kerosene (AVTUR) which is used in jet engines is exempt from tax. |
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn00523/ |
Jesus, read what I wrote
7-day time frame
Just saw you went back and read it and added the third sentence
Perhaps I should have been more specific and written 'public transportation within the UK but outside the obvious routes which service a large Scottish city to its closest ski area'
Likewise with the train from Wales
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
Taking public transportation within the UK to a Scottish Ski Area (plane or train if you don't want to fly) and the associated UK cost of accommodation, food, ski pass is in my experience significantly more than the a UK Tour Operator or independent trip to continental Europe over a 7-day time frame |
Primarily it is a function of preferential (zero) tax rates on aviation fuel which ignore resulting CO2 emissions from flying versus other forms of transport.
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Which is why I'm not getting bent out of shape about my carbon footprint
The Government want us to change our ways but penalise us for doing so
No thanks
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
Jesus read what I wrote
7-day time frame
Just saw you went back and read it and added the third sentence
Perhaps I should have been more specific and written 'public transportation within the UK but outside the obvious routes which service a large Scottish city to it's closest ski area' |
FWIW : If I lived in south of England I would probably ski in the alps too.
London is roughly equidistant from Morzine and Fort William (~800km each way).
There are a number of reasons Crystal ski don't offer ski weeks to Scotland for £600. Primarily reliability of the snow.
Though cant really be blaming the Scottish resorts for factors outwith their control
- cost of public transport within the UK.
- aviation fuel taxed at zero rate (cheaper to fly to London than take the train!?).
- exchange rate (of course a week in Bulgaria will cost less for accommodation and food than UK).
A lift pass in Scotland costs £30/day.
Which seems reasonable value when there is snow on the ground.
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