 Poster: A snowHead
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
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Advice from a lifelong boarder "hang like a monkey and point where you want to go" I find that coming back to me in times of missing fine interpret and read of predicament I'm in, works every time to loosen up and just push the fundamentals.
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GAAH! No, we are NOT at home to Mr.Gorilla! (apologies to @Gorilla) If you're breaking at the waist, you get nothing on heel-side turns.
Keep your knees soft and over your toes, hips and back reasonably straight and in line with the board, and try to keep the upper body nice and relaxed and still. Pointing introduces shoulder roll and you'll come a cropper. It's all in the feet baby. |
John Wayne baby, stand like a gunglinger all the time
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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This was me, learning in my late 50s - one of the brief moments when I was upright!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
#Ultimate-Ski-Wagon
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I hope that's got brand new snow tyres with full depth tread or else the owner is callously condemning all road users to dye in a roadside fireball and also that it's had the full EV conversion so the owner can brag about how his trip to the alps didn't really take him any longer all things considered.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Great style @pam w, and you look taller than you sound on the interwebs 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
you look taller than you sound on the interwebs
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 Someone once told me, when I was about 17 and sensitive about such things, that I was not as heavy as I looked. Didn't know what to make of that, either. Peut etre je péte plus haut que mon cul.
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First few days on a board are pretty miserable. I can imagine many skiers have tried it for a day, suffered, and came to the conclusion it's harder to learn.
Once you get past that first threshold it's generally a quicker trajectory to reach a decent level than on skis.
I wouldn't say it's easier to master snowboarding or skiing. Reaching that level is extremely difficult for both sports.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I suffered for more than a day - did manage to learn, after a fashion, but those smacking falls from catching an edge (usually the front edge in my case, result of failure to commit to the turn) are not fun, especially for the aged. I decided that having done enough to understand where boarders were coming from (or, more important, going to) I would give up, though I did quite often give a boarder a tow across an annoyingly flat bit on the top of Mont Bisanne! I liked boarding to music. My fave track being "Take Your Mama" by the Scissors Sisters. I can't tow boarders now as skating is much too knackering for someone with heart failure.
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As my t-shirt says,
"If skiing was easy they'd call it snowboarding"
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@under a new name, In all conscience did you have to cross out "skiing" with a marker pen and substitute "lunching"? 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Gored wrote: |
| Not sure if I have met anyone who thinks snowboarding is harder than skiing. Snowboarding is harder to learn if you have no transferable skills or being used to being on a board like a skate or surf, but skiiing is harder to master. |
Interesting that you haven't come across anyone who thinks boarding is harder. I have asked quite a few people, just out of interest, and nearly all of them have said they think boarding would be harder.
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| Owlette wrote: |
Because it looks akin to riding an ironing board down a mountain. I have the greatest of respect for snowboarders and their ability to ride one, but no desire to get on one myself.
To me, having both feet bound to one object seems like having less control.
I like my legs being independent of each other. Though I'm sure the knee that popped when I slipped on ice and had one leg stay still whilst the rest of me fell in a different direction, would disagree with me.
Also, poma lifts... |
Yes I understand your thoughts, but I can say with certainty that skiing is much more difficult overall, but in my opinion much more versatile and rewarding, so enjoy your skiing!
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You know it makes sense.
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| achilles wrote: |
@Mid4656, took me long enough to ski reasonably well. Now I can relax and enjoy. I am sure snowboarding is great, and I admire many boarders skills. But as I am well in my 8th decade, and these days get but one week a year skiing, I'll give a new way of breaking something a miss  |
Good for you, and long may your enjoyment continue!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Toadman wrote: |
| Because most people don't know any better...or worse for that matter! |
Yes that makes complete sense and that is ultimately what I think.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| valais2 wrote: |
@Mid4656, ....I did three days...it was gong well...but there was one thing which really bugged me about snowboarding...that front edge is just out to kill you.....
...Hi meester ski guy....I know you riding me...but you put one foot wrong when you go down hill and i KEEL YOU....
I just hate that |
That’s what happened to me. After a lovely day riding low angle pow, caught the front edge on the home run. Busted shoulder. Never ridden the board again… |
Ouch! Sorry to hear that. But of course skiing unfortunately causes a lot of injuries. I have no idea whether boarding causes more injuries than skiing or vice versa, would be interested to know though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not really got an answer to the original question as I’ve only ever been a skier and haven’t considered whether one is harder than the other. But what I have noticed in recent years is how few boarders you see these days. When I started skiing in the mid 90’s, boarding was huge with what seemed like 25% of people on the mountain on trays. A couple of weeks ago in Austria I would say it was more like 2% or 3%. It’s probably not as simple as that as boarding seems to be very country/resort specific but from what I can see there has been a substantial decline.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Weathercam wrote: |
@BobinCH, you should have tried learning in the days of no helmets and using your ski boots.
Like has been said first three days were horrible, mates with concussion from whiplash and maybe the worst, badly bruised coccyx.
But we got to grips with it and for nigh on 20 years had fun, last seven or so in La Grave until touring proved that two planks are better. |
Actually I started boarding with ski boots and no helmet etc. but a friend and myself padded ourselves out with rolled up socks and a pillow in strategic places and that worked a treat! May I ask if your perception is that boarding is harder than skiing or vice versa?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| phil_w wrote: |
| Mid4656 wrote: |
| ... I am sometimes intrigued by my perception that most people seem to think that snowboarding is more difficult than skiing when clearly the opposite is true? ... |
You're contradicting yourself. If most people "think snowboarding is more difficult", then I can't see how you're justifying your "clearly the opposite is true" assertion. You're being irrational, your argument is fallacious. You have not demonstrated what you claim, in fact you've demonstrated the opposite.
I think that anyone who's mastered snowboarding will also have mastered skiing though: I've never met a professional who couldn't do both at a decent level.
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I will try to clarify what I said: - My firm belief is that skiing is much harder to become very proficient at compared to snowboarding. However, my perception is that most other people seem to think that the opposite is true and so I am asking if people here have ideas why that might be?
There are many people who are very proficient at snowboarding, but not at skiing and of course many proficient boarders have never skied. The same can be said for skiers who have not boarded or spent more than a few days doing it. It should be noted that in France, all ski instructors have to be at a high level for both skiing or boarding, they cannot just be one or the other, however that is just the instructors and not the general public.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ski3 wrote: |
Well said @phil_w, it's asking to judge with a question framed containing so much tension within it that it can't really have an answer.
Marked "must try harder" for the OP, in red ink
For reference, I dont really see much difference in acquiring skills from one to the other, that's to reach higher level. Each is as nuanced as the other. |
There is no 'tension' in my question, why should there be? I enjoy both disciplines, but don't understand why most people seem to think that boarding is more difficult when it isn't. I agree that each requires different techniques (nuanced), but I can assure you that once takes a lot more time to reach a good level of proficiency than the other.
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| Pasigal wrote: |
I found snowboarding significantly easier to learn than I thought; that said, I had skiied for a long time and surfed. But within an hour I was riding lifts and skidding down blue slopes. My son picked up snowboarding in a week at age 14 to the point where he could handle blacks.
In general, it might have the reputation for being harder to learn because many adults who learned to ski as a child tried it when they were older, with all the difficulties that entails. And when you're just starting, those frontside slammers hurt...wrist braces and butt pads required for sure.
I never really switched to boarding for a couple of reasons: The need to unbuckle EVERY time for a chairlift, and the inability to navigate the flats or cat track runs. And tbh, from my limited experience, it's much more fun to board in powder/fresh snow rather than on hardpack groomed pistes. which make up about 90% of European ski days. And let's not even talk about moguls...I find skis to be much more versatile, although I loved the comfort and walkability of snowboard boots and the lack of poles... |
Good for you and I agree with all that you say. Of course there are numerous people who have never tried snowboarding and so they won't have first hand knowledge of the difficulties of the first few days, but nevertheless I have noted that most of them seem to think boarding is more difficult overall; do you have any thoughts as to why their perception is like that?
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| haigie wrote: |
I think a big part of it is that a lot of people have ice skated or roller bladed at some stage in their life, so skis feel a tad more natural. That was certainly my experience as a decent blader back in my youth and took up skiing to have something to do in the Winter.
I certainly feel skiing is easier to get started but harder to master in comparison to boarding… |
You make a good point but also a lot will have done skateboarding or maybe surfing before they decided to slide on snow. I certainly agree 100% with your second point.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
There are similarities in the snowboarding/skiing debate to wind/kitesurfing.
Kitesurfing is initially hard to learn and can be very dangerous, but after three days it's possible to be skimming across the water, whereas in windsurfing planing across the water is not something you can achieve for quite a while.
Anyway, the above water-sports are now becoming redundant almost as Winging takes off. |
That sounds interesting having never done any of those things unfortunately, in fact I had to look Winging up - it looks great fun.
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| neilkav wrote: |
| Pasigal wrote: |
I never really switched to boarding for a couple of reasons: The need to unbuckle EVERY time for a chairlift, and the inability to navigate the flats or cat track runs. And tbh, from my limited experience, it's much more fun to board in powder/fresh snow rather than on hardpack groomed pistes. which make up about 90% of European ski days. And let's not even talk about moguls...I find skis to be much more versatile, although I loved the comfort and walkability of snowboard boots and the lack of poles... |
EXACTLY this...i had been skiing for about 10 years, learned to snowboard fairly quickly and really enjoyed it (apart from the front edge flips as many have mentioned), so I persevered.....for about 3 days, and then realised OMG what a major FAFF it was to unclip every 5 mins 
I know one or two people who do both very well, and they say whilst it's almost certainly easier to pick up the basics of snowboarding, it takes a lot more to master it - thinking the one or two absolute expert boarders I see per holiday who are simply awesome versus it has to be said many many more expert skiiers. |
Ha! Ha! Yes I know what you mean about the clipping and unclipping! With regards to "experts", that of course is subjective I suppose and hence hard to define. I would argue that becoming very proficient takes far less time on a board - but then how does one define "very proficient"? 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Sfellows wrote: |
The old adage:
Skiing is easy to learn and difficult to master.
Snowboarding is difficult to learn and easy to master. |
Wow, that is interesting. I have never heard that "old adage", I need to get out more! Thank you for posting.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Mid4656 wrote: |
Of course there are numerous people who have never tried snowboarding and so they won't have first hand knowledge of the difficulties of the first few days... |
I have second hand experience. My Daughter's ex Boyfriend came with us one year and wanted to learn Snowboarding. As he was a half decent Skateboarder, he thought it would be "Wee Buns", as they say in my part of the world.
Both myself and my Daughter tried to tell him otherwise - and highly recommended getting Impact Shorts (or whatever they are called), as he would spend a lot of the week getting bruises from endless falls. He thought we were taking the pi$$ (which tbf we often did), but he bowed to the pressure and bought some when hiring his Board. Boy did he make use of them. He couldn't believe how bad he was - which was made worse by the high expectation that he would be otherwise.
He was just starting to get the hang of it, when he took a tumble and hit his head hard enough, that he didn't feel up to his lesson on the last day. He was wearing a helmet, thank goodness.
They split up, so I have no idea whether he ever went again.....but I have a feeling, not.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
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I persevered.....for about 3 days
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Thankyou and goodnight.
Time for a pea-roast... circa September 2011, from the Sideways Archival Collection.
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Richard_Sideways wrote:
You'll hire your board and boots after a day or two of skiing, go up the hill, put the board on for the first time, fall over, get up, work out how to skate over to the lift line, get there after about 15 minutes of inching along, fall over, get up again, get in line, fall over, get up again after watching 6 year olds scoot past you. Get to the front, miss the first 3 drag lifts getting into position, catch one, fall over, get up again, catch another, fall over, get up again, catch another, fall over, get dragged 10 metres until they stop the lift, you roll out of the way, get up again and walk back to the line, and decide to boot pack it up a quarter of the bunny slope, just so you can get going.
So you're sitting on the slope strapping in, looking at the kids whizzing past you, slowly stand up on your heels, immediately sit back down, repeat until you're holding yourself on edge in a crouch, shaking like a malaria victim and just as sweaty. Inching up now, there’s suddenly an alarming squeaking noise which sounds like someone eating polystyrene and you sense movement, which you instinctively react to by falling backwards. Repeat as necessary until you've found away to squeak yourself on your heel edge all the way back down to the flat bit, thighs screaming at you every inch of the way.
If you're the persevering type, you'll now repeat the process of walking back up the hill to try the whole process again but on your toe edge. It'll be a similar experience only the falling will be interspersed with occasionally falling backwards surprisingly quickly and banging the back of your skull on the ground like a big bone basketball till it rings like a bell and you wish the piste basher would just come and run you over.
During this time, you'll probably have initiated a turn by accident, caused by the fatigue in your legs applying pressure unevenly across the edge, you'll suddenly find yourself slewing around and sliding towards something or someone. Panic will ensue, this is normal. Instinctively you'll move backwards even though you know you shouldn't, this is normal. This will cause the whole experience to get faster and you'll have less control, this is normal. The grim inevitability of the coming crash dawns on you and decide to bail it before it gets any worse, this is normal. The world for you will go (depending on prevailing weather conditions) white, blue, white, blue, white, blue oh hey, look there’s my feet and board!, white. You are now in a tangled mess, much like you were when you were a beginner skier but you've strapped to a board which has now got one end dug into the piste so you have to roll yourself around, but you can't because the board is stuck, and you're twisted so far around you can see your ankles.
At some point around now you'll decide to bug this for a game of soldiers, and take the whole damn lot back to the ski shop and get your skis back. You'll return from holiday log onto snowheads and take your place in the ranks of those who can't see the point of snowboarding because you've tried it and it's stupid and not as good as skiing. |
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Yes exactly and a story well told, ha ha! But may I counter by saying that most people have lessons!
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You know it makes sense.
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| monkey wrote: |
Snowboarding is extremely easy to learn the basics and be able to navigate down hills. You can spend all day on your heel or toe side pretty safely. You can learn this in 5 minutes. Skiing at a beginner level is much more difficult and much less intuitive so takes much longer to do.
From there however skiing is easier to become intermediate (parallel turns on reds) than boarding (linking turns on reds). To be an intermediate boarder you have to accept your bruises (moreso than in skiing).
I think the bridge from intermediate to expert level is probably the same for both but I wouldn't know personally.
I like them both a lot and never understood the people who hate one or the other. |
It's great that you do both and I respect that a lot, but cannot say I agree with you regarding progress from the early stages. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion and thank you for sharing your experiences.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The fact that each spot is entirely subjective on an individual level kinda makes a non-sense of yer point I rekon. Personally I think only at the begining boarding is harder, beyond that there is a huge progression to be had in either sport, and that is down to the individual. Very few reach the pinicle.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| ski3 wrote: |
@Richard_Sideways,
A skier first, went committed to Cervinia with a nephew, took ski boots just in case, weeks hire and lessons booked with ESI, tried board straight from hire collecting and day before lesson, absolutely, tragically bad no control or method at all.
With some brilliant instructors, general mooching around with one foot in, then drag lift first day, still felt almost impossible, but could see feint sign of progress.
By day three, half the class now missing, more personal tuition and it was coming together. Ended week travelling around right across Cervinia ultimately on red graded slopes. Massive sense of achievement. To emphasize though, those instructors knew so much in teaching us, a credit to their knowledge and dedication.
Mix the two since then, more accomplished skier than boarder, both really enjoyable.
Observation, each gives a different sense of you're own ability to ultimately balance in contrasting ways, both equally valid, increasing overall skill level as you interpret.
Advice from a lifelong boarder "hang like a monkey and point where you want to go" I find that coming back to me in times of missing fine interpret and read of predicament I'm in, works every time to loosen up and just push the fundamentals.
Good for you that you can and do both. With regards to "hang like a monkey and point where you want to go", I think that could equally apply to skiing!
I find it fascinating how much balance I could find that I didn't know I had, all from learning to board. |
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kat.ryb wrote: |
It takes WAY longer on a board to get to the "comfortable cruising blues and reds" stage than it does with skiing. Flats are also a nightmare for the beginner and early intermediate boarders. The learning stage involves many many more hard smash downs when you catch an edge.
If you only gave 1 week a year, thats a significant additional time you spend having a hard time.
Its also slower for the same ability level and loads of punters just like going fast.
Its also a lot harder on drags and other lifts versus skiing.
Also snowboarding on a piste in hard pack just isn't THAT fun versus skiing, and that is the reality for conditions most of the '1 week a year holiday skiers" encounter.
In my early twenties I went away with about 10 friends who mainly were all non-skiers and they all had snowboard lessons. Only 1 of them still boards, the others ALL switched to skiing after two weeks of being poo-poo on boards.
Three of the experienced boarder have now also stopped for all but the deepest of pow days and mainly ski.
Snowboarding is defo easier in the pow pow and in slushy and crusty conditions. It is not easier on piste IMO. |
Thanks for your input, have to admit that is not a story I hear very often as my experience of others is that generally the opposite is true. However, I certainly agree about the flats, powder and slush and understand your thoughts about hardpack for sure. Don't agree about time to cruise blues and reds, but of course we all have opinions and I welcome yours. Do you ski and board nowadays?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
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Snowboarding is defo easier in the pow pow and in slushy and crusty conditions. It is not easier on piste IMO
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So, its more fun in great conditions, but required more skill to ride every day...
Ergo, Skiing is less fun and easier... like driving an Austin Allegro, in artificial-limb beige.
I'm enjoying Argument Tuesday! |
May I ask if you ski or board and how many times do you do either a year?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Mid4656, nahh- snowboarding and skiing (alpine) are both easy- try keeping it real and free the heel.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Given the question has been clarified as (rather than the original statement):
| Quote: |
My firm belief is that skiing is much harder to become very proficient at compared to snowboarding. However, my perception is that most other people seem to think that the opposite is true and so I am asking if people here have ideas why that might be?
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I would suggest the reason people may perceive this is simply because more people ski than snowboard, hence there are more mid-level skiers that may have briefly tried snowboarding, not progressed as quickly as they had hoped and so given up and gone back to skiing than the reverse. Also an intermediate skier probably doesn't fall very often, whereas an intermediate snowboarder (lets assume someone capable on easy blues and maybe tentatively trying trickier blues and/or reds in good conditions) will be more likely to take a tumble (as its far easier to catch an edge), so that probably skews the perception too.
I would say the shape of the learning curve differs, but its quite likely that to win Olympic gold in either discipline you have to put in similar training hours and be similarly highly skilled (of course only one person on the planet can actually articulate the relative skill levels required to win Olympic gold in both)!
I'm not convinced these kind of questions can really be answered, if this was a sailing forum people would argue about whether catamarans were 'better' than monohulls, a flying forum may compare helicopters to planes and so on...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Orange200 wrote: |
I tried boarding for a day in the middle of a ski trip, no lessons. Fell over all the time, hated it.
A couple of years later, went with friends. They tried boarding for a day in the middle of a ski trip, no lessons. Fell over all the time, hated it.
Then I went skiing, stayed in a chalet with a bunch of guys boarding. We asked if it was difficult as it seemed to be. They said the mistake was to do the above. Take an entire week, take proper lessons, don't mix it with skiing. I did that next time, loved it - excellent group teaching in Canada may have helped. By day 3 was blasting down slopes (absolutely not like skiing, still snow ploughing at end of Week 1, and possibly even Week 2 - bloody school trips and carp French "instructors" in the 80s). Went boarding for the next years (always with lessons). Was amazed at how some skiers suddenly disliked me. WTF is wrong with people?
Stopped to accompany my daughters as they learned skiing - which I am STILL crap at despite paying huge amounts for lessons. I might restart boarding at some point but my body is nowhere near as flexible and as resilient as it was, and sadly the ability to stand up and rest is now more attractive.
For me, boarding was easier to learn than skiing up to a point, maybe as I have (had?!) good balance, maybe as I was given good fundamentals. There are less variables with legs locked together so for me skiing will always be more technical. I never ice skated or roller bladed before. Lifts weren't much of a challenge. Moguls were more fun as the board was much shorter. Fully agree that hardpack (common more in Europe) and flat areas (you learn quickly, hello skiing out of Sunshine, I think I'll download next time) are certainly for the skiers, fully agree that catching an edge is painful, especially falling backwards! But slush/sludge, in a warm European resort, can favour the boarder, so there is still an environment to do it, not only fresh pow; an ex-girlfriend ripped a knee apart skiing when one leg hit porridge and another carried on.
What I found is that I couldn't easily transition from one to the other, it took at least a day to adapt. I hear others can do that.
I notice the OP hasn't returned. |
A good story and one that resonates with many people I have met over the years. Don't feel bad about thinking you are crap at skiing, it is difficult and takes a lot of time and a lot of lessons with good instructors. Of course 'crap' like 'good' is subjective and hard to define, and so I am guessing you are not as 'crap' as you think you are. Good luck to you and I hope that soon you will not grade yourself as crap!
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I think most skiers watch a snowboarder scuffing their way down a hard packed red and consider them "proficient" whereas the step-up to be able to properly carve that piste on a board is enormous. I've spent today in Andalo trying not to get a speeding ticket whilst carving my way down the easier bits of those very reds; then, as I ride up on the chairlift, watching in envy as very average intermediate skiers make it look so bloody straightforward!
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
First few days on a board are pretty miserable. I can imagine many skiers have tried it for a day, suffered, and came to the conclusion it's harder to learn.
Once you get past that first threshold it's generally a quicker trajectory to reach a decent level than on skis.
I wouldn't say it's easier to master snowboarding or skiing. Reaching that level is extremely difficult for both sports. |
As for mastering either, it is of course difficult to define "master", but my opinion is that the "quicker trajectory" you describe for boarding, continues. Thanks for your thoughts, do you still do both?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I suffered for more than a day - did manage to learn, after a fashion, but those smacking falls from catching an edge (usually the front edge in my case, result of failure to commit to the turn) are not fun, especially for the aged. I decided that having done enough to understand where boarders were coming from (or, more important, going to) I would give up, though I did quite often give a boarder a tow across an annoyingly flat bit on the top of Mont Bisanne! I liked boarding to music. My fave track being "Take Your Mama" by the Scissors Sisters. I can't tow boarders now as skating is much too knackering for someone with heart failure. |
Good for you Pam and sorry to hear about your heart.
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| under a new name wrote: |
As my t-shirt says,
"If skiing was easy they'd call it snowboarding" |
Ha! Ha! Love it. But have you snowboarded?
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FAQ
