 Poster: A snowHead
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@MorningGory, uhhh, thank you but I think we covered some of that in my physics degree. 
I know (well, I'm pretty sure) electricity had been invented and we definitely did cover what the + and - marks meant on batteries... **
That's just the number quoted on that website, which I presume means peak instantaneous load. So as a rough first order estimate, add the "h"... But as you say, it's not entirely straightforward to convert that into, e.g. typical daily consumption.
@HilbertSpace, I think* that's just for reference convenience at domestic use level?
* guessing ...
** it was, however, a very long time ago and detailed questions about quantum chromodynamics are no longer welcome, thank you.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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So linked to this and tying it to skiing and boarding.....
How many resorts have solar panels supplmenting (or even better fully powering) their lifts? Are they rigged up to still allow solar generation even in blackout?
I know without the battery setup I am waiting to be added to my recent solar install (next summer it is expected), during an outage my generation gets switched of and even in December the day time generation has covered a lot of daytime use.... I have got my travel kettle out the loft and been using that to boil water as the 1kw element is inside what I generate on a sunny day whereas the 3kw fast boil draws more than the rate I can generate
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@NickyJ, not so many I would guess.
Another point, and I realise it's not as simple as it looks, but annually France is a (not inconsiderable) net exporter of electricity ... suggesting, to me, in the round that some large-ish schemes for seasonal smoothing storage might be an idea.
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@under a new name, you can probably drop the sarcasm as your original message suggests that you didn't understand:
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the newish bubble from Flégère uses 945 kW ... (I presume per hour?)
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per hour suggests that you are thinking 945 kW/hour, which as you presumably know is a meaningless unit. What you presumably meant that 945kW is the peak power rather than the average power, or vice versa (I would have thought average), as previously said there is no need to mention the time unit
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@rambotion, what is life without sarcasm?
Woops, you're quite right about that, didn't express myself terribly well there.
What I meant was that the (possibly) peak of 945kW could, not unreasonably, guesstimate (ignoring it being a motor and three phase and all) into a max consumption of 945kWh (in that one hour).
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@under a new name, I think a more correct term would be that France was a (not inconsiderable) exporter of electricity. Since early this year it has been a net importer. I think storing large amounts of electricity is still a pipe dream and we will have to rely on interconnectors to do the smoothing. Luckily the operation of those interconnectors seem to be remarkably free from interference by politicians
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Ski resorts have been warned that they will not be priority for electricity.
After Mediapart, a French investigative website, revealed that ski resorts thought they'd done a side deal with the govt to be considered the same as hospitals for electricity supply the govt. has warned the deal is off the table.
French people were scandalized to learn that tourists could be enjoying uninterrupted power and snowmaking while they froze in the valley reminiscent of the Vincent Price movie "The Masque of the Red Death".
Ski resorts had warned the govt. that cutting electricity would be "very complicated" to manage especially in the evening period due to poorly insulated ski apartments. The govt. wants to take any apartment rated 'G' off the rental market from the 1st January 2023 but has promised that lifts will not be interrupted with people actually on them as this would cause chaos in resort.
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Hmm. I haven't yet been able to commit to a week's skiing next season - though I hope to be able to next week. Had been planning to go to LDA. Now, maybe not.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@davidof,
In your first posting on this you mention an "App" do you know what is is called and where we can download it?
Thanks for the heads up on this.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| achilles wrote: |
| Hmm. I haven't yet been able to commit to a week's skiing next season - though I hope to be able to next week. Had been planning to go to LDA. Now, maybe not. |
The strikes worry me more than blackouts tbh and then only if I were travelling by train.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@welshflyer, it's called "ecowatt" - presumably available outside the French app stores? Runs off the national grid data I think.
@chocksaway, oh? The data I saw (which was reasonably up to date, perhaps not for this year and I can't (of course) find it now) suggested otherwise. You have probably got more up to date data however, I guess?
@davidof,
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| Ski resorts have been warned that they will not be priority for electricity |
- which is entirely sensible. Although I'm not quite sure I understand just how the gov are likely to manage this.
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@under a new name, yup. I’ve just downloaded it and it’s working here in Blighty
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You know it makes sense.
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I wonder what will happen to resorts which straddle borders? I'm going to PdS in January, staying in Avoriaz, but if there was a 2 hour blackout, say from 11:00-13:00, I wonder if SERMA would run their lifts until like 10, and so if you could get over to the Swiss side before then you could continue skiing (albeit limited to the Swiss side, a bit like when the French closed ski resorts due to COVID and the Swiss didn't, so Chatel draped Swiss flags on their town hall), and then at 13:00 the French lifts restart.
I suppose it's also possible that Avoriaz gets power for the lifts from Switzerland anyway, but ofc it could also be the reverse and the Swiss lifts get their power from France.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Storm in a teacup, Davidof is the king of cowdoo.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| davidof wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| Hmm. I haven't yet been able to commit to a week's skiing next season - though I hope to be able to next week. Had been planning to go to LDA. Now, maybe not. |
The strikes worry me more than blackouts tbh and then only if I were travelling by train. |
I also suspect that the majority of the blackouts will be in the 18:00 - 20:00 window as that is when peak demand is for electricity grids, and so if that's the case the power cuts won't affect the ski lifts at all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| zaphod424 wrote: |
I suppose it's also possible that Avoriaz gets power for the lifts from Switzerland anyway, but ofc it could also be the reverse and the Swiss lifts get their power from France. |
There must be a lot of interconnectors with Switzerland so I wonder if the Haute-Savoie resorts will be unaffected?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@davidof, serious question, if I'm in St Tropez but get my leccy from Germany thru Switzerland, is there a delay when I turn my hot tub on as the leccy comes down from CH?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @davidof, serious question, if I'm in St Tropez but get my leccy from Germany thru Switzerland, is there a delay when I turn my hot tub on as the leccy comes down from CH? |
How do you get your leccy from Germany? Do you mean you have a contract with a German company?
If you had a cable from Germany then there could be a theoretical delay of approx 1/3,000th of a second.
but we are talking about the grid (RTE) so things don't work like that. Your electricity probably comes from Tricastan supplying the local grid with Germany feeding into the grid elsewhere. You turning on your hot tub would create slightly more load on the local system. Lots of hot tubs might need the Tricastan operator to increase output.
Your theoretical 1000km cable would suffer power losses even at 75kv so would be inefficient.
But you know all that having a physics degree.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 7-12-22 11:58; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @davidof, serious question, if I'm in St Tropez but get my leccy from Germany thru Switzerland, is there a delay when I turn my hot tub on as the leccy comes down from CH? |
Depends. Do they normally deliver your leccy by email or post?
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@under a new name, Yeah, it all seemed to change back in the Spring when a bit of a perfect storm of delayed inspections, unforeseen faults, then a shortage of water and then strikes reduced French nuclear output significantly. It's on the way back up, but is still down by about 8 GW on this time last year. I use this link to follow it:
https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/france/
The key thing this year is to hope for a windy winter to keep the turbines turning all over Europe.
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| @davidof, serious question, if I'm in St Tropez but get my leccy from Germany thru Switzerland, is there a delay when I turn my hot tub on as the leccy comes down from CH? |
Depends. Do they normally deliver your leccy by email or post? |
It's all downhill to there from Germany being nearer the equator and so faster than going the other way. Ambient temperature making it thinner too, counteracting insulation losses on the way 
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@davidof, yes. Yes, I do.
@chocksaway, ah, cool, thanks.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Looks like I'd better get some more XC lessons in then and avoid the lifts
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| davidof wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| Hmm. I haven't yet been able to commit to a week's skiing next season - though I hope to be able to next week. Had been planning to go to LDA. Now, maybe not. |
The strikes worry me more than blackouts tbh and then only if I were travelling by train. |
The plan is to fly into Geneva or Lyon, then by train to Grenoble, and thence by Tansaltitude bus to LDA. Bens Bus is an alternative from the airports, but I am not a fan. Could fly direct to Grneoble - but would very much rather not.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| achilles wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| achilles wrote: |
| Hmm. I haven't yet been able to commit to a week's skiing next season - though I hope to be able to next week. Had been planning to go to LDA. Now, maybe not. |
The strikes worry me more than blackouts tbh and then only if I were travelling by train. |
The plan is to fly into Geneva or Lyon, then by train to Grenoble, and thence by Tansaltitude bus to LDA. Bens Bus is an alternative from the airports, but I am not a fan. Could fly direct to Grneoble - but would very much rather not. |
Looking today and I see two trains have been cancelled on that route due to strike action but there is a bus service directly from the airport to Grenoble bus station
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A thousand people out on the slopes wrapped up, is 1000 people not sitting at home in a t-shirt, with all sort of electrical appliances being used. Just a thought for those prioritising power usage this winter! 
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| haggishunter wrote: |
| A thousand people out on the slopes wrapped up, is 1000 people not sitting at home in a t-shirt, with all sort of electrical appliances being used. Just a thought for those prioritising power usage this winter! |
You haven't got the French national politician mindset, have you? 'As long as Paris is OK, it"s a good policy'.
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You know it makes sense.
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| haggishunter wrote: |
| A thousand people out on the slopes wrapped up, is 1000 people not sitting at home in a t-shirt, with all sort of electrical appliances being used. Just a thought for those prioritising power usage this winter! |
Mandatory skiing for the greater good? I like it!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Have just added a camping light to the list of things to take to France this weekend, for use in the apartment.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Our apartment, like many, was totally electric. We had a few short outages but the only long one was due to a problem with a gizmo in our meter box, one evening. Other power in the building was OK. My daughter and family were staying and my grand-daughters still remember the evening entertainment I fixed up for them (they must have been about 6 and  . They each had a couple of tea light candles and a small pan, a little bar of chocolate, a couple of tangerines and a wooden spatula. They spent HOURS chopping and mixing and melting. Fortunately the electricity people had an out of hours phone line and I was able to contact them - they could tell from my description what the problem was, could tell me that the part just needed replacing, and they came and did it pretty swiftly the following morning. We were OK in bed overnight - I don't generally use heating overnight - and the sun shone in the morning. But generally, those ski apartments have nothing but electricity. But all concerned have lots of warm clothes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have no idea of the figures, but suspect they may be quite substantial,
Why doesn't the French Govt just impose a blanket ban on hot tubs for the winter?
Add to that a ban on hotels and apartments powering saunas during peak hours (or even also ban them for the season)?
No one really needs a hot tub on holiday, and if it's a choice between uninterrupted skiing, drinking and eating or half an hour in a sauna, I think I know what most people would choose.
Anybody any idea of the power usage of all the hot tubs and saunas in the mountains?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yes, that sounds a good idea - like banning hosepipes when there's a drought.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If it was a straight choice between skiing and a hot tub, then skiing obviously wins hands down. But….. there is nothing quite like getting into a hottub after a hard day on the slopes.
As for how much leccy it takes, it depends massively on the location (inside or out), the insulation and the surface area.
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@brianatab, also, xmas extrrior house lighting? Internal factory lighting when factory is shut?
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
If it was a straight choice between skiing and a hot tub, then skiing obviously wins hands down. But….. there is nothing quite like getting into a hottub after a hard day on the slopes.
As for how much leccy it takes, it depends massively on the location (inside or out), the insulation and the surface area. |
Agree on the hot tub after a day on the slopes. We always try and find accommodation with a hot tub as, due to a chronic hip injury, my partner really feels the benefit of a hot tub each evening and it allows her to board a lot more on the holiday than without it.
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| davidof wrote: |
If you had a cable from Germany then there could be a theoretical delay of approx 1/3,000th of a second.
but we are talking about the grid (RTE) so things don't work like that. Your electricity probably comes from Tricastan supplying the local grid with Germany feeding into the grid elsewhere. You turning on your hot tub would create slightly more load on the local system. Lots of hot tubs might need the Tricastan operator to increase output.
Your theoretical 1000km cable would suffer power losses even at 75kv so would be inefficient.
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75kV is a relatively low transmission voltage, in the UK the grid operates at 275kV and 400kV (AC). For long distance power transmission high voltage DC is often used, a 1,100 kV HVDC link in China was completed in 2019 over a distance of 3,300 km (2,100 mi) with a power capacity of 12 GW.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I’m travelling quite the distance to be a tourist and skier in France in January. It’s cost a few bucks too. Given the carbon I’m burning on the long hall flight I’m more than happy to take one for the team when I’m there. I’m in Tignes, Les Arcs and Chamonix over the course of 3 and a half weeks. Are they all on the same grid? Am I likely to see blackouts every day?
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 8-12-22 7:49; edited 1 time in total
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| sbooker wrote: |
| I’m travelling quiet the distance to be a tourist and skier in France in January. It’s cost a few bucks too. Given the carbon I’m burning on the long hall flight I’m more than happy to take one for the team when I’m there. I’m in Tignes, Les Arcs and Chamonix over the course of 3 and a half weeks. Are they all on the same grid? Am I likely to see blackouts every day? |
I doubt you'll see a single blackout.
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FAQ
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