 Poster: A snowHead
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@ski3, a "summer" tyre is optimised for driving on wet and dry roads at 7C upwards, a winter tyre isn't. If you're pootling around at 30mph it doesn't matter much. If you're doing a few hundred miles/ km at 130kph on WARM French autoroutes I think it does matter - I'd rather be driving on decent summer tyres. That is my choice.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Rob_Quads wrote: |
[quote="ski3"
That's not true, it only happens at the very extremes of tire performance, both of which example lay substantially outside normal and legal use patterns.
Many of the "winter" tires used are rated with a V speed rating (partly because the original non winter tire specification decides that) which are safely rated to 150mph continuously and without technical compromise.
The scope of most example is so far outside even "driving at speed" category to make no difference. |
"This is the opposite of previous reviews I have seen in various places. Even on a road stopping from 70mph on a dry warm road the summer types will generally stop quicker than the winter types. Speed rating is not a sign of the performance of the tyre per say just the limits it will work within. You can have two "V" tyres with VERY different performance. Are they both "safe" yes... is one safer than the other.. yes[/quote]"
That just reinforces what I've written, that at their extreme of performance you'll see a difference. No manufacturer would put into market a product that's not safe, they are all subject to identical criteria to make a V rating. Certainly different characteristics and ultimate limits of adhesion, but way way outside any normal use profile that competent driving will entail.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't measure performance but I've never noticed any reduction of performance of winter tyred in warmer weather.
I certainly have noticed a large improvement of winter tyres in bad weather.
If I was going to VT in April and had the option of both I would certainly take the winter tyres.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I used to work for a tyre manufacturer. Winter tyres can quite happily cope with the temperatures they'll hit on a long autoroute drive in the spring. The worst that will happen is that they'll wear somewhat faster than the summer tyre would, and yes, they won't be as agile if you decide to engage in some spirited cross-country driving in a performance car. But warm for a winter tyre isn't 15°-20°C: the edge of a winter tyre's comfort zone is probably around 25°C, whereas the edge of a summer tyre's comfort zone is around 3°-5°C and it's hopeless on snow. To me, driving to/from a ski resort in Spring is very much a balancing of probable worst cases, and as I said before, the worst case for winters in that situation is a lot better than the worst case for summers.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 28-04-22 11:36; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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All this reminds me that I should probably dig the winters out before the FamBash trip to VT, make sure they've not turned into crap since they were last used...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@LaForet, useful background info, Foret.
I have just recalled the error in 2004 of hiring the French side of GVA in March.
Less than a mm of fresh stalled us totally going up the hill to the house at 1100m, and it’s not that steep. Clogged tyres, spinning wheels. No chains. Dangerous.
Never again.
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thanks a lot to all of you,
I am so glad we kept winter tires on...all the way from Calais random snow/rain shover and 20cm of fresh snow when arriving, 25cm and -7c, when leaving....
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| MontyMM wrote: |
thanks a lot to all of you,
I am so glad we kept winter tires on...all the way from Calais random snow/rain shover and 20cm of fresh snow when arriving, 25cm and -7c, when leaving.... |
Seems very worthwhile for your trip, and by all acounts the safest option.
Compromise with "winter" tires in dry weather are small to almost vanishing, I wonder what those advocates of summers tires feel about your experience now ?
Driving a winter tire in dry conditions MAY require a consideration in your pace etc, driving a summer tire in winter conditions over significant distances can be heart stoppingly fraut for those unprepared to take on that risk.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@MontyMM, …likewise…5cm of fresh on the roads over the Jura for us, one day of ice in CH - invaluable to be on winters…(Conti’s in our case)…
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| Quote: |
Driving a winter tire in dry conditions MAY require a consideration in your pace etc,
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My winter tyres were rated for far faster than I could drive legally anywhere other than a German autobahn. And faster than my present car would go, even there. Glad it went well, @MontyMM - thanks for feedback.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I'm admittedly a peasant (what's the opposite of a petrolhead?) when it comes to driving, but there's no way I could tell, whether from road noise or handling, whether I was on winter tyres or summers. |
I never thought of myself as a petrolhead. But every spring when I switch back to my regular tires, I noticed how quiet they are compared to the winters.
Granted, I have very quiet tires, which I noticed every time I come home from trips having driven in hired cars. I immediately noticed how smooth and quiet my own car tires are. And it's not just the car being well insulated. It's the tires.
Handling on the other hand, the difference were hard to tell.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Glad you kept your winters on. Just taken mine off on Tues after a last gasp Easter trip to Tignes 2100. Not the first time we’ve had a last weekend in April ‘dump’ round here!
I notice a big drop off in performance on winters once the temp gets towards / past +20 - on my way home last Sat the Moutiers-Albertville N90 the car felt quite tentative down the valley. Not throwing it around with two small kids in the back, but can feel the tyres are on the edge of their operating window. Just slowed down a bit.
I run Conti TS850s in the winter and Pirelli Cinturato P7 in the summer.
One friend here in Geneva forgot to take their new winter tyres off during the summer (on a Kia Picanto) - they were finished by the time Winter arrived!
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The challenge for winters as you run above ~20°C is twofold: tread compound chemistry and squirm. The tyre's tread is getting too 'sticky' for it to handle right and the sipes and higher block density make the tread squirm excessively, heating the tyre up above the design operating temperature and affecting the handling. The sipes are the tiny zig-zag grooves in the tread block which (a) deliberately cause squirm that heat up the tyre faster and run it hotter than a summer would in winter. and (b) trap snow on the tyre surface and give a snow-on-snow traction that's better than rubber-on-snow. Generally, winters have more drainage grooves and thus more isolated tread blocks, adding to the squirm.
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You know it makes sense.
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@LaForet, Hence the attraction of true all seasons for UK users. Generally have a tread pattern that favours water dispersal and the UK doesn't tend to get tarmac meltingly continental hot for weeks on end. Certainly my Goodyear Vectors have more confidence inspiring summer grip than the worn but still legal Conti Eco-Contacts that preceded them.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Dave of the Marmottes, Why did you go for Vectors over Cross Climates? (I'm thinking of a set of CC2s just for UK use)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Still got our winters on our Xtrail, as we need a whole new set of summers and the winters aren't yet ready to replace with all seasons. Two front ones have only done about 5000 miles.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| Still got our winters on our Xtrail, as we need a whole new set of summers and the winters aren't yet ready to replace with all seasons. Two front ones have only done about 5000 miles. |
If you can get them in the correct size, the Falken AS 200 is a really good option for all season and no need to switch so they'd effectively replace the summer as well.
At the more snowy end of the all season category with really good performance across the whole spectrum. Important for some is that they are not directional if you have a vehicle with a spare (it's no compromise in either direction ) and can be swapped around the vehicle to even the wear if it has a bias to driven wheels.
Easily one of the most competent I've used.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| MorningGory wrote: |
| @Dave of the Marmottes, Why did you go for Vectors over Cross Climates? (I'm thinking of a set of CC2s just for UK use) |
Better performance in rain and snow (think mine was a comparison of Vector G2 vs CC1 at the time, the CC2 I think improved on previous weaknesses) plus scored a really good price on the Vectors.
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