 Poster: A snowHead
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@Weathercam, did you stick with this transceiver? did the software update to fix your concerns??
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@PowderAdict, re ARVA pointing in wrong direction at high range - yes I had exactly that on a training day.
Not my beacon - we have BCA4.
I got a reasonable lock on to a flux line with the practice ARVA and went with it.
Completely wrong by 180 degs.
I was not believed by the guide.
Tried to replicate it but could not.
I felt very stupid.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@valais2, I was practicing in an open field in the summer, with I believe by Barryvox Pulse, the Arva Axio, a Pieps DSP, a Ortovox Pro S (flip phone version), and a BCA Tracker 3.
If I remember correctly at 60-70m range the Barryvox and Pieps had stable direction arrows, the Ortovox and BCA had nothing, and the Arva pointed the wrong way, and was the last to correct itself has I moved closer. The Axio was discontinued after only 4 years which indicates there might have been something wrong with it.
I’ve never found an interface that I prefer to the Barryvox (I now have a Pro S), but I massively prefer an LCD 360 degree pointer to one that is limited to an arc, whether LCD, LED or individual LED’s.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@PowderAdict, Very interesting.
The simultaneous comparisons which you have learnt from are gold dust I think. Very important knowledge.
When getting new beacons this year, we didn’t buy the Barryvox due to the number of recalls over the year - instead went for the Tracker4, recognising that its range was more limited but felt it was a more cast iron beacon. Still unsure as to whether we made the right choice…
This review is very positive about the BCA4 and was instrumental in our choice. The 50m range is indeed a limitation - 50m is a mighty short distance on an avalanche debris fan, I do recognise that - but the accuracy and thus speed of the fine search seemed to be vital.
https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/reviews/snow-sports/avalanche-beacon/backcountry-access-tracker4
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 17-04-24 14:17; edited 3 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Oh well nothing like a bit of thread resurrection, and I do have quite a bit to add!
Firstly beginning of the season whilst ski-touring, OH noticed at the transition she no longer had her Direct Voice in her pouch!
I was only able to ski down some of the way we climbed and had no joy, but did in the process pick up the transceiver of a handful of other skiers in the same sector which really complicated things!
Then I did the 2 day Avy refresher course, and whilst it was more focused on route finding, the weather kept us to safer terrain, and both days we did some reasonably intense searching and guess what I used on one occasion?!
The guide buried the pack a good meter down, first day horizontal, next day vertical, so that added to the time when probing.
And have to admit to being faster with the Direct Voice that my Barryvox, and that was multi victim search (two) compared to the day before which was just a single!
Or maybe second day I was more intune to things?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Weathercam, thanks, does it still stop reporting at 0.2?
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@Weathercam, …pouch? Is she a kangaroo?
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We do quite a bit of research on error and critical incident analysis, and it’s interesting that the psychological and sociological-psychological elements of avi search are not well researched. No surprise that this group of researchers from different disciples is Canadian - I wonder what sport they do in their spare time?!
This is a good paper and an important contribution, since it’s in the timeliness of a well managed search pattern that lives can be saved.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Audrey-Desjardins/publication/260589542_Collaboration_surrounding_beacon_use_during_companion_avalanche_rescue/links/5465371a0cf2052b509f2dfe/Collaboration-surrounding-beacon-use-during-companion-avalanche-rescue.pdf?origin=publication_detail&_tp=eyJjb250ZXh0Ijp7ImZpcnN0UGFnZSI6Il9kaXJlY3QiLCJwYWdlIjoicHVibGljYXRpb25Eb3dubG9hZCIsInByZXZpb3VzUGFnZSI6Il9kaXJlY3QifX0
Group behaviour in assessing terrain and risks we now know is vital. Group behaviour in dealing with complex burials can be better understood and help with transceiver training. SOP (standard operating procedure) not really well documented regarding how a group should prepare for how it searches. Compare a pilot preparing for a landing with crosswind. As they approach a landing, well in advance the pilot flying and pilot monitoring will discuss the challenges of the landing, and what procedure will be followed in case of wind shear, when this is a possibility predicted by the meteo report. Compare skiers. Checking beacon operation in each case by each o person putting into receive and transmit in turn. Nope, not always. Discussion of the day ahead and the meteo and the potential terrain issues. Sometimes. Discussion of how to organise when 1, 2, 3 or more buried? Almost never.
Well, that may be all fine, but absence of SOP might explain the discovery rates and survivability stats. Which are grim.
Having done a big refresh on avi training I have new SOP.
1 night before departure - check meteo and avi report, check route, anticipate objective dangers, check bailing routes, Discuss with partners. Check likelihood of rescue services response (eg no fly weather, no signal areas etc)
2 just before departure - check meteo and avi report updates
3 at departure - full beacon and equipment check (min 40% on existing batt, spare batteries etc), check phones and radios not interfering with beacons, discuss search protocol for this group (of 2, of 5 etc) discuss decision making re route, turnarounds etc,
adds 10 mins, but no probs.
SOP vital in aviation. I think more SOPs needed in hills. Sounds like bureaucracy. But those who are old and bold have personal SOPs born of much experience and these should be used for all and not just be personal, in my view.
Oh …and no plastic toy shovels….
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Need to get the missus a new one for Xmas. Barryvox S still the gold standard? |
As far as I know and according to most reviewers .. yes. Longest detection range coupled with easy and intuitive interface (in basic mode) plus option to go sophisticated if you're a guide/responsible for a group.
Last time I went heliskiing they, quite rightly, made us all do a quick refresher using our transceivers. Three of us had the Barryvox S and we had, I would estimate, about 20m earlier detection than others.
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@Blackblade, interestingly that’s in line with the specs….50m for our BCAs, 70m for the Barryvox.
Eyeballing the slide and getting an estimate of where people are seems to be all important in case studies.
I do worry about slides in poor viz and how difficult that renders the coarse search.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Blackblade wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| Need to get the missus a new one for Xmas. Barryvox S still the gold standard? |
As far as I know and according to most reviewers .. yes. Longest detection range coupled with easy and intuitive interface (in basic mode) plus option to go sophisticated if you're a guide/responsible for a group.
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All new Pieps Pro IPS does one better on range. But has some flaws still. So, as of now, I'd recommend the Barryvox as well. https://www.alpin.de/tests-produkte/60508/s-4318718/produkttest_produkttest_2023__lvs-geraete-pieps-pro-ips.html
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| valais2 wrote: |
@Blackblade, interestingly that’s in line with the specs….50m for our BCAs, 70m for the Barryvox.
Eyeballing the slide and getting an estimate of where people are seems to be all important in case studies.
I do worry about slides in poor viz and how difficult that renders the coarse search. |
To be honest, whilst I've done the avalanche course and refreshers I've never (touch wood:pinch of salt:superstition of choice) been in a real avalanche. The closest I came was a small slide which washed the top 10cm of snow over my skis ... was still enough to get my heart racing though as we were above a cliff on a steep pitch.
That said, I personally wouldn't be skiing off piste in poor viz ... given the inherently risky nature of the activity adding further unnecessary risk seems unwise to me.
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@Blackblade, argh that’s indeed scary. Bad stories of exactly that kind of slide above a cliff….
Re bad viz I’m experienced in climbing in poor viz and really studiously avoid off piste skiing and touring in bad viz. Hut to hut far more difficult to manage - getting socked in and ‘hut bound’ can lead to increased risk taking….
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You know it makes sense.
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@Blackblade, …and being a ‘ten weeks a year skier’ I continue to feel like a rank amateur compared to those that live in the hills and are out far more and far more regularly than me.
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FAQ
