 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| snowhound wrote: |
I wouldn’t ban treatment for people who have refused a vaccination but on the other hand, I wouldn’t delay the removal of restrictions just in case they might get ill.
They’ve made their bed and need to accept the consequences of the decision they’ve made. In practice, I think the ‘vaccine refusers’ are more like ‘vaccine hesitants’ who will get on board once they see people aren’t dropping dead after being vaccinated. I suspect that a few well publicised examples of people dying of COvid having refused will get them on the phone to their GP fairly quickly. |
There is probably going to be a financial imperitive to be vaccinated even if you do not want to. Suspect if you are not insurers will ask for higher premiums, etc. Will resorts or countries require proof of vaccination in the 2021/2022 ski season?
In certain jobs it may end up as a requirement of employment. There is a problem with care home staff refusing vaccination. I cannot see that will be allowed to stand. Think apart from the rabid anti-vaxers 90+% will have been vaccinated by the end of 2021.
I have a number of young friends with some bizarre ideas on this. I have given them a history lesson on small pox, polio etc.
My view is the 2021/22 ski season will happen but with some procedures we will all have to follow. Any new nasty variant permitting
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just don’t let people in the pub without a vax cert if you want to turbocharge take up ...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| mishmash wrote: |
| Just don’t let people in the pub without a vax cert if you want to turbocharge take up ... |
The trouble is, you don't get a cert when you have a jab. 11 million people have had one in the U.K. and not a single one can prove it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You do get a little card showing the date of 1st dose and 2nd dose, type (AZ/Pfizer) and batch number. Could be easily forged of course.
Your NHS records can be used to prove vaccination - they show the same information.
The NHS app (not the NHS covid app) allows you to view your own record securely.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
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Is it reasonable to ask other people to pay many thousands possibly hundreds of thousands of pounds for your stay in hospital because you refused to take a treatment that would most likely have prevented it? I think you will have a very difficult time coming up for a good argument for that
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It's a slippery slope. ACL injury from skiing? You could have easily prevented that by choosing a safer hobby. Overweight, drink alcohol, smoke? No treatment for you!
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There is a fundamental difference between getting ill from doing something whether that be overeating, smoking, injury from skiing etc. and getting ill from refusing to take a safe preventative medication because you believe some crazy rubbish about said medicine.
There is no slippery slope. I would apply the principle to all vaccinations offered by the NHS.
So again whats your actual reasoned argument that it is not entirely fare and reasonable to expect people to pay for their own treatment should they refuse to take a safe medicine and fall ill as a result?
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There is a fundamental difference between getting ill from doing something whether that be overeating, smoking, injury from skiing etc. and getting ill from refusing to take a safe preventative medication because you believe some crazy rubbish about said medicine.
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Exercise is a safe preventive medicine, so is eating a balanced diet. Should someone be refused free treatment because they refused to do those things?
It's kind of a moot point anyway, because your idea of charging is simply not practical. Look at the demographic that is most likely to refuse vaccination, they don't have the kind of money to cover their treatment. You are going to spend more in legal fees and bailiffs than you could hope to recover. At "best" you repossess their house to cover the costs in a few cases. They are then homeless and become an even bigger and more expensive problem to society.
You could argue the fear of potential huge treatment costs will "encourage" more to be vaccinated. I don't really buy that though. A lot don't want vaccine because they think covid isn't serious so they don't believe they will be hospitalised anyway so there is no fear. Many are too stupid to consider the potential long term costs or even realise the kind of bill they could rack up.
Remember the goal is to vaccinate as many as possible as this is best for society, not just punish those that dont. In the long term (don't think you could do it now as seems unfair to those too young as healthy to have been offered a vaccine) a vaccine passport you need to show to enter pubs/nightclubs/restaurants etc. may be the best way to incentivise those who are reluctant.
I don't disagree that refusing to take the vaccination is stupid. I would even go as far as to say refusing to vaccinate your children (in general - not covid specifically where vaccination on children might not be necessary) is neglect. I just don't think your solution of making people pay for treatment is an effective idea.
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I would apply the principle to all vaccinations offered by the NHS.
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Things are perhaps not as black and white as you think. Unless you've travelled to a country with high risk of diphtheria you probably never had a booster as an adult. While it's very rare in the UK there are cases where adults who received the vaccine as a child, but never had a booster get diphtheria. According to you they shouldn't be treated because the NHS do offer adult boosters (although you likely have more chance of winning the lottery than catching diphtheria so doesn't make much sense to get a booster).
What about TB? The NHS does offer a vaccine, but you have to pay for it yourself as not considered necessary unless travelling to high risk country. However, some people pick it up here in UK. Assuming you've never travelled anywhere to need the vaccination, If you picked up TB from a stranger coughing on you sin UK should you have to pay for your treatment?
That's before you consider people that have medical issues preventing them from being vaccinated.
You'd be better sticking to your covid vaccine as it's a much more clear.
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Forgive my ignorance if as UK citizens we have had the vaccine , why would Austria/France Italy etc refuse you access for a ski holiday . I’m assuming post vaccination you can’t catch it and cant transmit it , so a harmless tourist who is going to spend money in the local area . Why would they prevent us from arriving ?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| gwatts10 wrote: |
| I’m assuming post vaccination you can’t catch it and cant transmit it , so a harmless tourist who is going to spend money in the local area . Why would they prevent us from arriving ? |
It's not clear that either is correct. The scientific position is that you CAN catch it post vax, but it MOST LIKELY won't be a problem. There is SOME talk that it SEEMS to slow transmission from the vaxed person to others. Time will tell on those.
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@gwatts10, Austria is closed for tourism right now regardless of your vaccination status.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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[quote="boarder2020"]
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Remember the goal is to vaccinate as many as possible as this is best for society, not just punish those that dont.
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Yes, but never knock a fringe benefit. Bar them from using any arm of the NHS until they get a jab.
And paint their heads purple so we can spot them more easily.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Yes, but never knock a fringe benefit. Bar them from using any arm of the NHS until they get a jab.
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From what I've seen there is no evidence yet to show to vaccine prevents transmission. If there was your argument would have a little more weight.
The hospitalisation rate for 15-44 year olds that get covid is 36.2 per 100,000. (I suspect the majority not them have pre-existing health conditions and are towards the upper end of that age bracket). Financially obesity, alcohol, sports injuries etc. are all going to cost the NHS significantly more than a healthy 18 year old that refuses to be vaccinated. So it would make more sense to ban treatment for those things from a purely financial point of view.
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@boarder2020, so you think the vaccination scheme is pointless?
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You know it makes sense.
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As I keep saying not getting vaccinated is incredibly stupid. Covid vaccination will save countless lives, I will be getting mine as soon as offered and will be taking a very dim view of anyone who refuses it.
Until the covid vaccine is shown to stop (or at least limit) transition we can only say it protects the vaccinated person. I.e. some idiot refusing to get a vaccine is just as dangerous to others as a vaccinated person. So the argument that refusing vaccination puts non-vaccinated at higher risk is not credible. If it's shown the vaccine does limit transmission then you have a much better argument that people should be incentivised to get the vaccine (but even then I would disagree with your method of making it financial punishment, I don't think it's a good idea for a few reasons mostly said in previous posts in this thread).
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FAQ
