 Poster: A snowHead
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| veeeight wrote: |
I turned up, met the family of 5 (all good strong skiers), was told immediately that there was to be no instruction, just take them to all the good skiing spots, the best powder stashes, and cut all the lift lines.
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No disrespect and congrats for a couple of weeks that worked out well for you but I really object to people buying themselves out of lift queues. I came across a few people this year who tried to swan to the front of first lift on a powder day because they had some sort of priority pass. They were of course soon set to rights by those who'd been lined up for 45 mins who "educated" them as to the unwrittten rules accompanying such privileges i.e. don't try it when there's a crowd of 100 powder hungry locals.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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fatbob, I'm very curious as to where this mass riot took place?
You may "object to people buying themselves out of lift queues", but market forces and a free market will dictate that it will always happen. What else, really, is heli-skiing, when it comes down to it?
And what about this deal from Copper Mountain (those staying in more expensive Copper lodging get to jump ahead of those staying in, for example, more downmarket Frisco):
Beeline Priority Lift Pass
Skip the regular lift line and get more time skiing with this priority lift pass. Avoid the ticket windows and go directly to your own dedicated lift line. Make first tracks with a 15-minute head start every morning on the American Eagle. Use the Beeline priority pass at the following lifts: American Eagle, American Flyer, Super Bee, Excelerator, Kokomo, High Point and Timberline Express.
Beeline Lift Pass (Priority Lift Line) and non-beeline tickets are the same price. Only guests lodging at Copper Mountain are eligible to purchase Beeline Lift Passes (Some exceptions) call for details. Non lodging guests receive a non-beeline regular paper ticket.
Perhaps the only surprising thing is that deals like this are not yet more widespread...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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fatbob, I think that the story you tell represents the worst kind of local.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Martin Bell wrote: |
fatbob, I'm very curious as to where this mass riot took place?
You may "object to people buying themselves out of lift queues", but market forces and a free market will dictate that it will always happen. What else, really, is heli-skiing, when it comes down to it?
And what about this deal from Copper Mountain (those staying in more expensive Copper lodging get to jump ahead of those staying in, for example, more downmarket Frisco):
Beeline Priority Lift Pass
Skip the regular lift line and get more time skiing with this priority lift pass. Avoid the ticket windows and go directly to your own dedicated lift line. Make first tracks with a 15-minute head start every morning on the American Eagle. Use the Beeline priority pass at the following lifts: American Eagle, American Flyer, Super Bee, Excelerator, Kokomo, High Point and Timberline Express.
Beeline Lift Pass (Priority Lift Line) and non-beeline tickets are the same price. Only guests lodging at Copper Mountain are eligible to purchase Beeline Lift Passes (Some exceptions) call for details. Non lodging guests receive a non-beeline regular paper ticket.
Perhaps the only surprising thing is that deals like this are not yet more widespread... |
It wasn't a riot just a polite heckling until the putative queue-jumpers realised they'd be better slipping in unobtrusively further down the line. Most tourist focussed ski areas in NA that I've been to seem to have some sort of priority programme in my experience.
I appreciate it's only market forces and ski resorts are in the business of making money. Heli ops are where I'd choose to be if I had the cash to burn rather than a private instructor for the week to queue jump. I do however speak as an only semi-reformed ski bum - surely there has to be some reward for the guys working a minimum wage job then getting up before dawn to secure an early draw for the first powder turns. Maybe the reward is that they get to ski everyday. I think a lot of the first tracks programmes are a neat marketing idea but actually on a good day control work seems to delay opening of the better lifts & terrain until public access time so there is no huge benefit.
Obviously I'm a hypocrite though as I'm quite happy to pay to buy my way out of a long walk uphill every run 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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fatbob, come on, where did this happen?
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I hope it wasn't at the Canyons, or I'm in for heckling for the rest of my life... 
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I don't agree with the premise that locals should get special treatment over tourists. If it weren't for the tourists then most of the locals wouldn't have a chance of working and living in the mountains anyway. If someone pays extra to get priority on the lifts then I think that it's wrong that they get heckled to the back by people who are too tight to pay the extra themselves.
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Locals do get special treatment - they get a season pass for peanuts compared with the price of a weekly or daily ticket
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Arno wrote: |
| Locals do get special treatment - they get a season pass for peanuts compared with the price of a weekly or daily ticket |
Not everywhere. Some places the season passes are the same price for everyone. Other places offer privileges to those who invest in the town. I'd like to think that if I invested, say £20,000 in a ski area, that as a reward, when I bought my lift pass I would either get a discount off the ticket, or some sort of priority in a lift line.
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Well, here it's very clear: There are clearly marked priority channels, students in private lessons with a ski teacher from LDA get priority. Classes with 5+ students have to queue. I think that's very fair. Also instructors in uniform can go through the priority channel and certain of the locals (and of course lift company staff). That's why I always work max 4 people.
Arno, Our season passes for locals are reduced, but many locals still can't afford for their children to ski regularly.
there are a limited number of instructors available, so there are a limited number of people who can pay to jump the queues. Actually here, in holiday time (the only time it's worth it) most private lessons are at lunchtime anyway, when it's not necessary to pay as there are significantly less people skiing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Wear The Fox Hat, should have been clearer - season's passes may or may not be cheaper for locals; but season's passes are always miles cheaper than (say) 20 weekly passes (assuming a 20 week season). so hearing a "local" who skis most days on his/her season pass moaning about tourists doesn't exactly give rise to feelings of sympathy. this isn't a dig at any poster on here - just a comment about attitudes you sometimes come across
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Arno, true - and some places the season pass works out cheaper than, say a 2 week pass, if you buy at the right time.
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Arno, I would disagree that most "locals" ski most days - that's the ski bums who don't get the special rates or priority. Most "locals" only get to ski on their days off (if they get one - most don't) or during their precious lunch times. Even the local race club don't get official priority - although most lifties will let them go first.
I agree that tourism is what turns the business, but it is a symbiotic relationship. No tourists would have holidays if it wasn't someone else's work, and most of those who work in ski areas actually like to ski/snowboard and don't get much chance. Don't include "locals" with the TO riff raff please!
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You know it makes sense.
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easiski, I'm slagging off the attitude of some locals who ski most days (ie a subset of "locals"), not saying that all locals ski most days
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The "local" population for Tahoe resort in question seems to include those prepared to drive 3+ hours from San Francisco at the sniff of a decent powder day & there were a fair number of resort staff in the line-up on their day off (or exercising the 12 inch rule to turn up late) as well as other tourists. Its not that anyone else was pulling rank. Someone told me the understood etiquette was that there was no priority for first lifts so it didn't surprise me that they got heckled. For the record I was there as a tourist so it wasn't really my axe to grind.
So for those that pay to have priority (& I'm not including regular lessons here) how much benefit do you find it? I'd guess in general it wouldn't be significantly better over the course of a day then queuing via a well managed singles line and proper chair loading. Obviously from reponses here there would seem to be a market for it so maybe more Euro resorts should be doing it as well.
Easiski, I think the L2A rules for small classes are very fair - there's sometimes nothing more frustrating then getting to a critical lift with a reasonable queue then finding wave after wave of ski class arriving to jump on ahead.
Sorry for highjacking the thread
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Poster: A snowHead
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I don't mind class's going first as long as its not people taking ther mick. I thought the VT ski schools made sure their bods didn't hold anyone up and if their charge was slow or missed their turn, the instructor would waive you through. Thats fair enough in my book.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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fatbob, not sure what this is quite what you're driving at but at Alpe d'Huez you get to jump the queue for the Pic Blanc cable car with a guide or ski school (up to 6 students/clients I think). The best thing about having a guide is that they let you up before they allow unaccompanied people so first tracks guaranteed. There is a safety justification - you are going up before all the avalanche control work has been completed. They trust the guide not to take you anywhere dangerous
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My home ski resort runs a mix of "priority" stuff...
There are ski school lesson queues runs on all major lifts...
the system is that all ski school classes queue in these run ins... they must then alternate with the other runs ins ... or as defined by lift organiser if there is one....
The busier lifts for ski school also have a "private lesson" queue area - a singles line sized one... This gives even more priority....
Again the private ski school queue would alternate "turns" with the regular one ... and again the ski schools alternate with regular queue....
All patrollers, lift staff,ski hosts etc tend to use the private/ski school queues...
The ski school tries to teach all the kids to have the manners to take turns... so the system should work without the lift organiser person.... many adults get it... a few do not....
As a regular private line user I have also been trained to "ask" and "thank" before taking our priority (like I would anyway but the isntructors make a huge issue of it... i think they do not want complaints that will mess up a good system).... We also make sure that we use the fact we have 2 decent skiers to help when needed - eg instructor will take struggling newbie on t-bar while I take their "friend"(who usually is NOT by the time they have fallen couple times for 1 t-bar trip)...
the double priority system on busy lifts works well... it allows the 1 hour privates lessons to work - you can actually GET somewhere in a hour with priority for the feeder lift from ski school to top... the regular lesson queue on that lift is matched with 2 regular people queues and a singles.... so the ski school gets 1 in 3 or sometimes 1 in 2 (busy ski school time or if people just cannot count to FOUR)... all instructors and classes are taught to call class size to lifty... means singles can be quickly slotted into the spaces...
Oh and yes the priority really does mean that I get the benefit from the lesson.... we have a 2 hour lesson we are SKIING 2 hours... not lift lining.... 3 hours and I'm beat!(at least with most of my intructors... a couple of the older ones understand I'm a OLD lady and they should be gentle and pace my lessons for me 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| little tiger wrote: |
| As a regular private line user I have also been trained to "ask" and "thank" before taking our priority (like I would anyway but the isntructors make a huge issue of it... i think they do not want complaints that will mess up a good system).... |
The "asking" thing is pretty standard in N America. In 6 years at Vail, I can only remember one occasion when someone said "no" to my standard question "please may we alternate in?"
So where is your "home ski resort" that you speak of? Surely not here: http://www.skiclub.ie/history.htm
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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little tiger, yes - we alternate too. Normally 1 and 1, but if there's a huge queue then I let 2 from the normal queue go to 1 or us. I also insist on please and thank you etc, but not all instructors are so particular. OTOH, if we asked before alternating we'd never get there! French and Italian kids do seem to believe they have first dibs on everything!
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