DTB thats the same place/company we are speaking about!
100% agree with you Scooter. I wouldnt F about slowing people down, i was hoping it was pretty quick to set up and go.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Nothing on the market is even close to being able to do follow-me in cat-ski environment (generally lots of trees / other obstacles). I haven't really tried mine snowboarding generally, but would be very surprised if it managed to catch more than a few seconds before losing track. Follow me works OKish on MTB if the trail is relatively straight and not in the trees. Still unreliable though.
On the other hand, footage from a half-decent drone operator is on another planet to go-pro footage if you can spare the time to set-up and fly. When I'm bike guiding, I shoot some guest footage from time to time. Usually we'll have 2 guides with the group, so I'll send my colleague ahead with the clients following. I'll film, land the drone, pack it up and catch-up. I'm generally slick enough to catch the slowest client before they get to the bottom of the trail so the clients get some good footage without having to wait around and without any reduction in guiding effectiveness (as I'm still sweeping up at the back if anyone has a problem and my colleague is leading from the front).
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@stevomcd, the Skydio is meant to be able to follow well with obstacles.
A high wind test from a non pro here, not a lot to avoid but does well around the lighthouse in crazy winds!
... the Skydio is meant to be able to follow well with obstacles.
...
and some MTB tree avoidance
<laughs> marketing's great, but those people don't pay for their stuff.
They sometimes pay for catskiing trips, but for reasons already given, it's not happening there even if it worked, which it won't.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@philwig, you seem to have a big downer on skydio?? Dcrainmaker ain’t payed to test it at all.
Gotta agree with @philwig, regardless of if it is marketing reviews / paid product testing I am very skeptical the skydio would work while skiing trough trees
Most if not all drone footage of cat skiing is done on an FPV you cannot get the speed agility otherwise.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
do you think skiing is just too fast?
I'm 100% sure dcrainmaker isn't paid to review, he shows it following him as he runs thru trees about 4mins 16secs into this, tight trees at 5:35
He says he's not paid to review and I don't have any reason to believe otherwise. The Skydoo drone you link to does look good although at 1500 euros it should be. I've not seen many reviews though. You see the limits in DCR' video, not really AI as it can't navigate the obvious path and he has drone anxiety looking around to see if it is still there.
I wish he'd get someone to overdub his voice, I have to ask my dog to translate. I have to watch those videos with the sound down and CC on.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I think there are a number of issues with skiing - there is the speed, there is the sudden change in direction of the skier left / right, especially as you work the terrain if there are rollers etc, there is the complication of the terrain change the drone also has to adjust height. On top of this all I would assume the sunlight and bright white surface does not help to create an identifiable object that needs to be tracked - similar to issues with DJI and skydio had with water - "Unlike solid ground, visual navigation is less reliable over water because of the constant changes in geometry and texture"
On the assumption that Skydio is the best commercial drone with tracking available - look at the performance here and then imagine it in trees.
I found this video supposedly of skydio being used for heli skiing - suspicious of the fact there is not one long shot and the guys skiing are going pretty slow and you can see it loses the subject a number of times
Drone footage, as others have said means the pilot does the work and gets a few seconds per outing of your mates but not you. You can’t teach a buddy how to pilot a drone on a descent so resign yourselves to drone pilots filming others.
360 cameras work for me and allow you to ski and film in ego-land easily and without disturbing or delaying others, at all. You can happily pass a 360 on an invisible selfie stick to another capable skier and get good selfie shots and great tracking shots.
Stitching drone and 360 shots, yes please.
MaviC Pro & MaviC Air (love the way it autocorrects to Mavis) and Insta 360 and GoPro Max.
I would never dream of taking and flying a drone on a cat-ski day.
Droning when ski touring is great: you can stop, fly, catch up, look over cliffs, no time pressures
Follow me is killed by no altitude descent: I have wanted to position the drone maybe 100m below top of pitch and ski down 200m vert - steep Couloirs look super-steep face on like that and drone doesn’t need to track and pilot can ski.
Basically drone flying and skiing at the same time are a huge faff. 360 is easy as pie.
360 short bursts are best:
A bit on drones on @FreeFloFloss, YouTube channel this week...
"so yeah, first tip like, er, you nee to buy an autofollo dro if you wanna be follo, yeah, not a lorra people know that"
Well that was really useful. Next up, you need skis to go skiing !
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Giving up on the drone idea as its just not partical. I am hoping gopro have a 2 year product cycle on the 360 max camera so will wait until early winter to see if they replace it with a newer model and who knows there might be a drone game changer lunched on the market before then.
Incidentally, that Skydio footage is actually pretty impressive, but it still doesn’t have a hope in hell of following someone either skiing or mountain biking at pace in trees.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Those are ace @stevomcd, Assume you’re the pilot and filming your buddies.
I would love to capture that sort of self-footage from the drone.
Post-Covid resolution is to teach my ski buddies to fly & film!
Nowadays FPV drones becoming very popular, but their require dedicated operator, I like idea of having mavic mini as flying tripod so could film myself having controller in the jacket pocket (without the sticks). This is for offpiste scenario of course where no people around.
Hi @ed48, - lovely footage.
1st video. Not viewed 2nd.
That drone was being flown by a pilot, yes?
There is no following happening of any one target that I can see unless it is locked, then lost?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
stevomcd wrote:
Incidentally, that Skydio footage is actually pretty impressive, but it still doesn’t have a hope in hell of following someone either skiing or mountain biking at pace in trees.
Fabulous! That cross run looks epic
After all it is free
After all it is free
Cheers guys, yeah, they’re all filmed by me, manually piloting my Mavic Air.
If I’m out on my own, I sometimes pop the drone up to a nice angle and just ride past it, either capture a few seconds of video or just grab some stills. 4K video stills make pretty decent photos! E.g. https://www.instagram.com/p/CLKSZYpFMx3/?igshid=1kmvo4srjv3t2
I’ve had the drone for about three years now, but I’ve hardly done any snowboard filming with it. Probably still wouldn’t if the lifts were open. Since there’s nobody around and no time pressure, we’ve been taking the chance to get some good images.
Bike stuff is easier as you know exactly where the rider is going, so you can stay a bit tighter. Plus the speeds (especially the vertical speeds) are lower.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
That last bike vid is pretty cool. You managed to get it to descend in active track mode? And did you take off the sticks and stash the controller in your pack?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Yeah, controller in the pack. Tried using phone-only control (then you can lock the phone) but the range is too short.
I guess it is dropping height in that film. That’s on side-on activetrack. Maybe the drone not changing height is a myth? I didn’t do anything special. Whether the drone can drop or not, the main problem is that the max vertical speed is 1.5m/s. You can drop much faster than that on snow.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
stevomcd wrote:
Yeah, controller in the pack. Tried using phone-only control (then you can lock the phone) but the range is too short.
I guess it is dropping height in that film. That’s on side-on activetrack. Maybe the drone not changing height is a myth? I didn’t do anything special. Whether the drone can drop or not, the main problem is that the max vertical speed is 1.5m/s. You can drop much faster than that on snow.
You nailed it there! Seems I need to practice more!!!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Grinning wrote:
Hi @ed48, - lovely footage.
1st video. Not viewed 2nd.
That drone was being flown by a pilot, yes?
There is no following happening of any one target that I can see unless it is locked, then lost?
Yeah, footage in the 1st video is stunning. Where was it filmed?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
2 Grinning
Thanks! That was pilot operated. Ive dropped idea of self following by activetrack, as result doesn't look good to me. Im planning to try litchi (they have added support of mini (beta) and air2) flying by waypoints, but it will require some beforehand preparation and planning.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
My take is that the only decent drone footage obtainable is by using a dedicated pilot. Any form of follow mode needs so much setting up and then controller or tag care that when you’re skiing you’ll only be thinking about the drone and “is it following?”
We need a multiple-pilot collective ski day - bagsy I film the last rotation of the day!
Might have already mentioned this but if I’m without a pilot on my next foray, I plan to send the drone out 1/2km looking back at the pitch we’re skiing about half way down framing the shot to capture the ski top to bottom. That perspective makes even a modest line look vertiginous- then just turn the video on, pack controller away, enjoy the ski, stop and recover drone. It’s not so interesting as the drone doesn’t pan (which sets a nice shot) but it’ll capture all the action.
Any other ideas to relieve avid skiers who don’t want to be pilots all day?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
2 Grinning
I was thinking about that. One idea is in theory (never tried that myself), is that, mavic 2, can be operated with 2 controllers, primary and secondary. We do most runs one by one anyways, so while first skier descends, the seconds skier (waiting anyways) operate the drone, then when 1st skier get into safe location, he takes control over drone and films the 2nd skier descent.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I think this is a good example of nice and easy to achieve shot, but still require pilot panning the camera down.
Not sure if one can lock the drone in position and just move the camera down based on active track, like focus follow and keeping subject in the centre of the frame, without moving the drone itself. I think I ve seen this on litchi app for mavic mini, not sure if it works now for mini 2.
... Might have already mentioned this but if I’m without a pilot ... It’s not so interesting as the drone doesn’t pan (which sets a nice shot) but it’ll capture all the action.
Any other ideas to relieve avid skiers who don’t want to be pilots all day?
This is a different scenario than the OP, but if you use a 360 camera then you can pan in post which is not a bad option.
It's a bit like instead of needing a pilot and a camera operator, now you only need a pilot.
Without 360 you're not able to frame anything so you'll get the wide shot if you're competent, but that's it.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@ed48, those are fab drone shots and, as you say, operator controlling camera.
2 controllers - that would be a good solution to handover control! Spare controller: Don’t think my Mavic Pro controller works with my Air.
@philwig, invisible selfie-stick mounted 360 (see my post above) is great and my preferred least-faff option for filming without messing with my team’s or my own enjoyment.
I plan to send the drone out 1/2km looking back at the pitch we’re skiing about half way down framing the shot to capture the ski top to bottom. That perspective makes even a modest line look vertiginous- then just turn the video on, pack controller away, enjoy the ski, stop and recover drone. It’s not so interesting as the drone doesn’t pan (which sets a nice shot) but it’ll capture all the action.
Any other ideas to relieve avid skiers who don’t want to be pilots all day?
Thats going to be my plan too The panning can be done in post, using premier pro is easy. Shoot in 4k then zoom and pan in 1080p. It would be nice to shoot in 4:3, but I dont think dji supports that.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
bit of an epic fail from DJI Air 2S Active Track system!! 8 mins is probably the most interesting bit!
<laughs> One March day a year or two back I had to swim to retrieve my own DJI Mavic from a cold river. The water was icy, but I wasn't about to walk away from a thousand quid. Needless to say the drone was dead. DJI claimed it was "user error" so I bought a replacement at full retail.
I'm a somewhat experienced remote flyer and had built and flown heli and drones for some years, so I didn't think "user error" was very likely. My drone had "auto landed" into the river despite me pushing the "up" stick as hard as I could, but I couldn't prove it. A couple of weeks later I found the DJI firmware defect which caused their machine to crash into the river: proof. I pointed that out to DJI and politely asked for my money back. They refused. I instructed my debit card company to charge back the grand they owed me and now we're all good. I was slightly disappointed that they didn't choose to fight in court - I'd have quite liked my costs too, as this was all down to them and they tried to lie and cheat to avoid their liability.
With these, I wonder who's liable if their "follow me" functionality destroys your drone.
I'm sure they DJI will have small print which denies all their own responsibility, but I don't think that would stand up in court.
If they are selling these as supporting "active track", then it's reasonable for customers to expect them to do that without costing a thousand quid every time they fail.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@philwig, was it low on battery? At very low battery, the DJI drones will auto-land no matter what you do with the sticks.
It's very, very annoying if you're 10 seconds flight time away from getting it back to you or to a safe landing spot, but I guess when all things are considered it's the safest option. You really don't want drones dropping out of the sky if the battery reaches zero.
I've had a couple of heavy crashes because of this, no major damage thankfully. I've been very well aware that I've been pushing the envelope each time, so it's my own fault.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 16-04-21 22:46; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
Incidentally, I've been experimenting with "parking" the drone in a position where it can see most of the line, then filming in max resolution and using digital pan/zoom to track the subject.
Obviously has its limitations, but pretty happy with the results, definitely much more engaging video than just using a static drone and allows you to film much more of the line.
(on that one I stopped half-way down when the line switched from one couloir to the next and I re-positioned the drone, so there are two different filming locations swapping over at the obvious cut in the video).
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@stevomcd, really good end result there!
I still have a drone in Siberia that suddenly had a mind of it's own and flew off across a river into a clump of trees into deep powder.
Did spend a fair number of hours hunting for it!
I did buy a replacement but never really enjoyed using it again after that fearful that it would happen again.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
stevomcd wrote:
@philwig, was it low on battery? At very low battery, the DJI drones will auto-land no matter what you do with the sticks. ....
You're right, but no, that wasn't it. I knew it wasn't "pilot error". However until I found the defect report on DJI's change log a few weeks later I couldn't prove it.
DJI knew all about the fault, because they fixed it and documented it. The firmware and crash description were a perfect match: they knew they'd caused this.
However rather than apologising and replacing the thing at negligible cost to them, they instead denied liability and profiteered by selling me a replacement drone at full retail.
That left me a thousand quid out of pocket. Until I found their defect report.
I'd bought the original drone plus controller in the US, the replacement was drone-only and an EU purchase.
The defect was in the first purchase, which also happened to be the more expensive of the two purchases by some margin.
Hence I charged the first purchase back, which netted me what I feel is adequate compensation for DJI's incompetence and dishonesty,
plus my cold swim.
stevomcd wrote:
... I've been experimenting with "parking" the drone in a position where it can see most of the line, then filming in max resolution and using digital pan/zoom to track the subject.
Obviously has its limitations, but pretty happy with the results, definitely much more engaging video than just using a static drone and allows you to film much more of the line....
Other issues aside, I think that approach is more likely to be useful with current technology, and the results are clearly good.
What I would really like is a decent resolution 360 camera, then you can also use that same approach only much closer (because you can pan and crop in post so you don't need such a wide view).
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Poster: A snowHead
