 Poster: A snowHead
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@pam w, As someone who has worked in America for a number of years, this is due to their holiday allowances which are far less generous than ours. Two weeks a year is the norm and that includes extra days either side of public holidays. (Labor (sic) Day, Thanksgiving etc). As a result most US workers only take long weekends.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Go on a greedy blowout binge of spending and s*x.
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Sounds like a good idea for a bash ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| RedandWhiteFlachau wrote: |
| @pam w, As someone who has worked in America for a number of years, this is due to their holiday allowances which are far less generous than ours. Two weeks a year is the norm and that includes extra days either side of public holidays. (Labor (sic) Day, Thanksgiving etc). As a result most US workers only take long weekends. |
That's only a very small part of the reason.
Large percentage of Americans live within reasonable driving distance of snow. Almost all the major population center are within easy drive of skiing. So an after work evening drive on a Friday will net a 2 day regular weekend skiing. An extended weekend is just perfect.
Driving to ski is also much less fussy than getting on a plane. You can bring as many pair of skis as your heart's desire. As much junk you may or may not need too. Even grocery for cooking. Making for a very economical weekend of skiing. Also can chase the snow on the last minutes. And stay back home when condition isn't appealing. Far greater flexibility than having to book flights months in advance.
Even though I've had 4 weeks holiday for ages (industry specific). I still take extended weekends often. Usually when I can see there's a storm coming, I just jump into my car and book hotels as I cruise along the highway.
And yes, we Americans typically own our own skis. Not necessarily good or expensive ones. But just to save the hassle of hiring on a Saturday morning.
The biggest difference being, skiing for Americans are less of a holiday, more of a hobby. A hobby you really want to do it every other weekend, not just one week a year.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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People want to ski. They want to travel. They want to get on crowded huge boats and cruise around. They want to go to crowded beaches. People might not want to go to movies or to the mall anymore. But outdoor activities will be huge based on what I have seen so far on my home mtn. and just what I have read here in the USA. I mean Americans need their freedoms, I suppose Europeans are no different, other than they don't have a crazy, totally incompetent leader.
So, assuming the vaccine does what it advertises to do, and the COVID 19 gets wrestled into submission, I would imagine all outdoor activities will explode in late 2021, and prices will ramp up. I could see airlines taking their sweet time adding capacity, and charge extortionary fares. Just look at what's going on with ocean cargo rates right now. Pretty much doubled and then some from Asia to Europe and North America. (Not adding additional vessel space to meet the increased demand.)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Europeans are no different, other than they don't have a crazy, totally incompetent leader.
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Errr...
They’re not “crazy” ... they’re full time psychos!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| abc wrote: |
| Buffet? In a hotel? Sounds like a cheap hotel. |
Standard for breakfasts across any price range dogwatch or his employer has ever stumped up for.
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| Toadman wrote: |
| People want to ski. They want to travel. They want to get on crowded huge boats and cruise around. |
Some do, some don't. Some did but maybe will have got out of the habit or discovered other things they have found they like to do. Some did but their savings have been hammered in 2020 and they will have to retrench. The question is how many will fall into those last two camps. My guess, more than you think.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 28-12-20 7:56; edited 1 time in total
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| abc wrote: |
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Short stays in winter (3 nights or less) are not cost effective for retailer or customer. We simply wouldn't bother.
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There’s no such thing as not “cost effective” in hospitality. Your “cost” is very minimal: labour. You simply raise the price to cover that, to make it cost effective.
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I don't think that is true at all. There's a large fixed cost, building/buying/maintaining a hotel isn't cheap. High occupancy is what allows those costs to be covered. There's a major cost in offering flexibility because you will get more gaps in occupancy. There are also costs in housekeeping e.g. an apartment needs cleaning and laundry change every time the occupants change, not every day.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| abc wrote: |
And yes, we Americans typically own our own skis. Not necessarily good or expensive ones. But just to save the hassle of hiring on a Saturday morning. . |
It's the expense to take ski's on a plane that is not worth it. Lots of people have their own boots, but not skis. For most who only take 1 pair, why pay £75+ to take your 4 or 5yr old skis, when you can rent newer models for roughly the same price?
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We started in 2006 only taking weekly bookings as that was more or less the self catering standard in our part of France - at least for main season.
By the time we stopped renting last year we were down to a 3 night minimum with the exceptions of xmas/ny, Feb and Aug holidays.
Less than 3 nights and we couldn’t charge enough to cover costs of changeover labour and linen and make it feel worthwhile.
It worked pretty well for us, partially because many apartments seem to manage changeovers with staff who have 5 day a week commitments and can only work Saturdays/Sundays.
Anyway, I think shortterm, for skiing, there won’t be many changes, other than some stations will close this year. And I do think super-cheap flights will be harder to find for popular routes and dates.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Regarding n American model I think there are a few explanations people go for weekends rather than full weeks:
- limited holiday time is definitely one reason
- being able to drive to a resort is another (also people are willing to drive long distances people driving up from Seattle to Whistler for a day or two skiing is not uncommon).
- multi pass resort lift passes (i.e. iKON, epic) giving you a couple of days at each resort are perfect for long weekends rather than full weeks.
Regarding the arguments chairs Vs gondolas. Why not have both? In shymbulak they have both on the same wire, two seperate queues - seemed to work well.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Regarding the arguments chairs Vs gondolas. Why not have both? In shymbulak they have both on the same wire, two seperate queues - seemed to work well.
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Indeed. Though most skiers I know hate gondolas, ski instructor with groups of small children or beginners like them a lot. Hence the "chondulas" to serve pistes suitable for beginners.
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Though most skiers I know hate gondolas
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Why? Having to remove skis? I quite like a gondola, offers a bit of shelter from the elements and a bit more freedom - can mess with boots, gloves, go into backpack without fear of dropping something etc. A bit more social as well as facing others rather than having to shout across a chair.
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You know it makes sense.
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A lot of commentators are drawing parallels with the roaring 20s for when we come out of the paendemic. So pretty much back to normal I hope, especially given the skier/boarder demographics.
On the other hand I don't fancy skiing in tweed on wooden planks 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| RedandWhiteFlachau wrote: |
..savings are up by as much as 30% per household in the UK. Presumably those who work for the Government Sector or those not furloughed. Which would suggest that a lot of people may have an excess of cash to spend in the next couple of years. Hopefully a fair few will come skiing. |
The public sector comprises more than 5 million jobs in the UK and it is probably true - in the short term at least - that these workers will have done comparatively well to those furloughed, more so if 100% of their salary >£2,500. There remains, however, something quite attractive, and difficult to attach a value to, about 9 months' 'holiday' on 80% of salary.
For what it's worth, I usually spend five figures on skiing annually so have this saving, combined with reduced costs elsewhere in life, which inclines me towards a family trip to West Coast Canada in 2022 as recompense for missing out on season 2020/21; this will be a net loss to the Alps but a gain to the Rockies.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Mr.Egg wrote: |
It's the expense to take ski's on a plane that is not worth it. Lots of people have their own boots, but not skis. For most who only take 1 pair, why pay £75+ to take your 4 or 5yr old skis, when you can rent newer models for roughly the same price? |
I think it depends on the airline - Swiss, Eurowings and Lufthansa (and arguably BA) for example have no charge for ski carriage. I also dispute that I could hire premium skis in any of the major resorts during peak weeks and for 6 days for £75.
My skis pay for themselves each season in hire costs saved alone. And I get more ski time on a short trip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
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We like most of the owners on Airbnb pre-set the ski season to only allow 7 night stays to maximise revenue. Most people who need accommodation in the winter tend to come for a week anyway. Short stays in winter (3 nights or less) are not cost effective for retailer or customer. We simply wouldn't bother.
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In the US shorter stays have long been very much the norm. In peak periods some European accommodation-providers have been able to dictate terms - particularly noticeable in French ski resorts (not elsewhere, where half-empty hotels don't turn their noses up at travellers wanting to stay for a night or two). That'll change. Providers who don't adapt to new demand will go to the wall. The Saturday/Saturday thing is really a bit mad. |
That's because in the US they have stupidly low number of days holiday a year.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Shining example of people incapable of learning! 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Snowsartre wrote: |
| RedandWhiteFlachau wrote: |
..savings are up by as much as 30% per household in the UK. Presumably those who work for the Government Sector or those not furloughed. Which would suggest that a lot of people may have an excess of cash to spend in the next couple of years. Hopefully a fair few will come skiing. |
The public sector comprises more than 5 million jobs in the UK and it is probably true - in the short term at least - that these workers will have done comparatively well to those furloughed, more so if 100% of their salary >£2,500. There remains, however, something quite attractive, and difficult to attach a value to, about 9 months' 'holiday' on 80% of salary.
For what it's worth, I usually spend five figures on skiing annually so have this saving, combined with reduced costs elsewhere in life, which inclines me towards a family trip to West Coast Canada in 2022 as recompense for missing out on season 2020/21; this will be a net loss to the Alps but a gain to the Rockies. |
The savings ratio has shot up to 30% for the second quarter 2020. It is 16.7% for 3rd quarter 2020.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/timeseries/rvgl/ukea
When you continue to pay people money, but prevent them from consuming anything other than essentials, then this is the likely effect. Most of the money went on paying off credit cards, and loans which went largely negative in terms of growth over the previous year. This is what happens on average, however for those on low earnings not eligible for furlough the opposite has occurred.
Whilst paying the public sector like the NHS lots of money, and preventing them spending it, might result in a lot of cash rich doctors who cannot go skiing, in the main it just defers that spending for when the unemployment ratio really starts to rise.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I think I shall be looking to have longer holidays, but probably less of them, which would reduce travel costs and carbon footprint. Right now I would relish simply being able to ski and enjoy the mountains more than the craik, so I am now more open to self catering and taking food and beverages onto the mountain. I have also come to value my time with my family more than ever, so this may see the end of “boys” trips. Carp Diem will no longer be a cliche in my book!
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| DavidYacht wrote: |
| I am now more open to self catering and taking food and beverages onto the mountain. |
This is a good example of how the pandemic will change skiing.
It isn't so much how skiing will change by the pandemic. But the pandemic forced many people to try a different way to approach their skiing holiday. Some may find they really like the new way and will change going forward.
I did exactly that back in early part of the season. I was preparing my own meal out of caution. I found I quite like the idea of not having to go out in the cold to eat. There's something rather nice about having a leisurely meal in my pajamas, appetizer, soup, main course, dessert, washed down by one's favorite beverage. All at my own pace, without having to make reservation, having someone to ask if I'm done!
I understand some people find cooking a chore. But I'm a competent cook. So the benefits of eating IN far out weight the benefit of eating OUT.
Here in New York City, some hotels are experimenting with partnering with nearby restaurants to have full means delivered to guest rooms. I think that's a trend quite likely to catch on.
The pandemic will change how many things are done. Skiing will surely be affected, even if indirectly.
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Some may find they really like the new way and will change going forward.
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Cooking for ourselves and picnics on the slopes is where many of us have come from rather than where we want to be going. Coming from the UK to eat out in Europe is usually a treat
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Peter S,
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I think there will be a great trend towards people getting a van, and going skiing (after throwing a mattress in the back and getting vaccinated)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think people will try and take longer trips.. I know Mr P and I will, though that’s through the good fortune of being mountain home owners and trying to work less (getting old).
I think people will look for resorts that offer more than just skiing.
Cheap catered chalets are definitely on their way out-a combination of Brexit and sharing accommodation with strangers. I think the more upmarket smaller operators should survive. It is nice to go away with a group of friends and be looked after in quality accommodation with decent food.
Out of curiosity I regularly check out local estate agents’ offerings here in the Belleville valley. There’s a noticeable increase in large 4-5 bed chalet apartments on the market up in Val Thorens. They are all a bit early to mid 2000s in style, and looking a bit tired. It’s difficult to see who would want to buy them (asking prices €1 million plus) as they are more investments than second homes.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| DavidYacht wrote: |
| I think I shall be looking to have longer holidays, but probably less of them, which would reduce travel costs and carbon footprint. Right now I would relish simply being able to ski and enjoy the mountains more than the craik, so I am now more open to self catering and taking food and beverages onto the mountain. I have also come to value my time with my family more than ever, so this may see the end of “boys” trips. Carp Diem will no longer be a cliche in my book! |
You're going fishing?
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I think (and hope) cheap air travel will not be around for much longer. The pandemic showed that we don't really need to fly around all the time to keep the economy running. And we must cut it back as a measure to tackle climate change which is a much greater threat than covid.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Tristero wrote: |
| I think (and hope) cheap air travel will not be around for much longer. The pandemic showed that we don't really need to fly around all the time to keep the economy running. And we must cut it back as a measure to tackle climate change which is a much greater threat than covid. |
Lol.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Tristero, while I agree that much business travel will not return, which is probably a good thing, flying is not a huge contributor to CO2. And there are various programs, some quite advanced, to bring it, say, net neutral in a short time.
E.g. wind powering a plant to turn the CO2 from a single Rotterdam steel plant into aviation fuel would, with existing tech and infrastructure provide Schiphol with 50% of its avgas use in a carbon neutral fashion. Not a zero carbon solution but a rapidly deployable step in the right direction.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think (and hope) cheap air travel will not be around for much longer.
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Budget airlines have been a huge blessing for allowing "regular" people to travel around experiencing new places and cultures, which must be a good thing. I think it would be sad to see the younger generation priced out of being able to visit foreign countries.
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I think I shall be looking to have longer holidays, but probably less of them,
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Much cheaper too. I'm often quite shocked to see how much some people pay for their week away, for not so much more they could do a month or two.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Tristero, while I agree that much business travel will not return |
Don't hold your breath.
That line had been uttered post 9/11. Business travel not only "return", it roared back!
All these remote working setup from the pandemic will result in a far more geographically diverse work force post-pandemic. It will eventually promote MORE business travel, in the long run.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Biz travel worldwide (outside China) will not return to old levels until the 2030s.
Gonna be down 70% in 2021 and 50% in 2022.
Companies have discovered a $0.01 videocall is ~90% as effective as a $5,000.00 outing to California or South of France.
And faster.
911 was pre-Internet.
Today is the post-fiber world.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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More driving less air travel for us....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Whitegold, I agree that business travel will be less. I will travel probably 70% where most demos will be done on our new multicamera video setup.
Training will be done in person though.
9-11 was not pre-intrrnet. I remember watching it on my computer on the internet.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Business travel will be down because there will be less business.
Can't speak for travel in US, but for me, flying on the day after 9/11 was a bit strange, but within a couple of weeks it was pretty much business as normal commuting weekly between Amsterdam and Turin
Flying to South America on business on the anniversary of 9/11 felt a bit spooky.
Everything else that stuck around as a minor inconvenience post-9/11 such as toothpaste tube size and getting undressed at security was largely due to other (inter)national security issues (of which at least one was purely government sources finding a way to ensure they had power over the people and made the people know that). Still can't believe the number of incompetent passengers that haven't a frickin' clue at airport security though even 20 years later.
Just trying to decide which airline stocks to buy to go with my other long term Covid recovery stocks. Easyjet, IAG and WizzAir seem to be the most talked about on the European side. Not looked in the to US/Canada side yet. There's no rush, it's gonna be a long recovery, even if the stock market does recover typically 6-9 months before the economy.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 30-12-20 18:21; edited 1 time in total
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| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
| ... 9-11 was not pre-intrrnet. I remember watching it on my computer on the internet. |
<coughs> I'd been running a fair bit of it for a decade by then.
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| philwig wrote: |
| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
| ... 9-11 was not pre-intrrnet. I remember watching it on my computer on the internet. |
<coughs> I'd been running a fair bit of it for a decade by then. |
Global fixedline and mobile Internet adoption was a tiny 9% in 2001.
Speeds were on dialup and slow.
Average speeds today are 12 times faster.
Global Internet adoption is now around 60%.
Today is cheaper, deeper, faster.
2001 vs. 2021 = night and day
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Was watching it on my laptop in the clean room @ Alenia Aerospazio in Turin.
And then back on KPN DSL when back at home (although I don't recall if that was still the really fast 256Mb service or after the free upgrade to really really fast 1Mb DSL).
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
The pandemic will result in many changes to the society and the way we work and leisure choices. That will have a knock on effect on skiing.
That, will change skiing a lot more than any short term modification directly from the pandemic.
In short, I think skiers will entirely forget there's a pandemic 2 years on. Resorts will be silly to change base on the special circumstance of this year. |
Yup.
Once everyone has the jab, they will forget the plague.
Go on a greedy blowout binge of spending and s*x.
Roaring 20s. |
a roaring 20s has been predicted elsewhere by 'experts'...so almost certainly won't happen!
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FAQ
