 Poster: A snowHead
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| ... The multi-resort passes in n America mean a lot of people are visiting more resorts, but skiing less days at each one. I think a lot of them enjoy being able to say they skied all these places (and have a sticker of each one on their helmet just to let you know). ... To get the best out of anywhere you need to spend a bit of time there (or have a nice local to show you around). |
I think that's correct, as evidenced by :
- My Whistler mates often claim that there's been less traffic where the locals ski, and relatively more novices following the Epic Pass change.
- My own experience of Snowbird.
I went there on my own and couldn't understand that the fuss was all about. I went back with some locals and it was immediately
obvious: they knew where the goods are and how to exploit them. They too optimised the **** out of it.
There's a slight twist in that last one, as some places are easier for casual visitors to "grok" than others.
Taos and Snowbird can seem weak without local knowledge; The Three Valleys is much easier to enjoy
simply with a piste map. I think that's all good - different strokes and all that.
And the other side of that is... if you only visit somewhere once, you may need to try extra hard to get the best from it.
I optimize the **** out of stuff I know, but I also spend as much time as I can in places I've never been before.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| To get the best out of anywhere you need to spend a bit of time there (or have a nice local to show you around). |
You have clearly never seen me order lunch in an unfamiliar Hut! 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've tried lots of countries/ski areas and enjoyed holidays in all of them, I guess I like variety/adventure.
I do keep returning to the Dolomites as it seems to tick more boxes than anywhere else for me. Even then I tend to choose a different spot to base myself, so I can discover something new, I haven't seen it all yet!
I can understand why some folk might keep going back to same resort, even the same hotel. They value the relationships they cultivate with locals, they like to relax on holiday so the familiarity & predictability of the experience is a comfort. If you go somewhere unfamiliar, the stress levels can be higher as you take time to work it all out. Some might thrive on that, some might want to minimise stress on holiday.
I guess some personalities seek variety/adventure, some seek security/predictability, others seek a mixture of the two. Each to his own, I guess!! 
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@luigi,
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some seek security/predictability
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It's nothing to do with that.....when you've tried the rest and you know what's best (which is entirely relative, we all like different things) you don't see any point going elsewhere imv.....nothing to do with lack of variety or adventure
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 4-12-20 12:52; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@enduroaid, It's not at all odd to be returning to the same area time and time again. Many of us in the forum have apartments in France and of course go time and time again. Some even spend the whole season in them. Last season I only skied the Paradiski area, though most years we manage atrip to another country/resort as well.
TBH Idon't see the point, as @boarder2020, points out, of just visiting other resorts for the sake of it. I like to fully research the resort before bookingto see if it offers what I want from a ski holiday.
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There was a poster on here who said they had only ever been to Meribel to ski over quite a few years.
I found that a bit odd, to be honest, as there is much more to skiing than Meribel (and I don't just mean Courchevel or Les Menuires! )
Still, it's a free world and your choice and full respect to that.
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@LOTA, There's always Mottaret or La Tania if they are going further afield!
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As lots have said, it's totally up to you where you go and what you spend your money on.
I like to to try new places, but have also repeated some places a few times. Some i've repeated because it's where I like and wanted to go to again (Portes du Soleile, Val Di Fassa), some i've repeated because that's where deals were, or a friend was working a season there and I wouldn't necessarily chose to go back again (Les Deux Alpes).
If you've found somewhere that does everything you need and want from a holiday, then keep going back, as long as you're enjoying yourself!
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| philwig wrote: |
There's a slight twist in that last one, as some places are easier for casual visitors to "grok" than others.
Taos and Snowbird can seem weak without local knowledge; The Three Valleys is much easier to enjoy
simply with a piste map. I think that's all good - different strokes and all that.
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I was thinking in terms of it mattering whether you are aiming predominantly off piste or not - I too have benefitted from a local's guide to the goods on a windblown day at Alta and some confidence building routefinding at the Bird. On one level it doesn't matter where you are if you just like to ski groomers but on another it still matters intensely - knowing which pistes turn into icy death slabs, which get sun fecked at what time, where the bumps are going to be soft enough or not, traffic levels etc all can make the difference between a bang average and a good day.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And knowing where the nicest restaurants are, and what's the best time to catch them before they get too busy. And which drag lifts are beginner-unfriendly.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I’ve been fortunate enough to have skied in a number of different places over the years, including Mayrhofen (great region). Nothing at all wrong with going back to the same resort/area. In fact, I’ve probably skied the equivalent of about 16 weeks over the last 4 Winters in the same resort....Dachstein West, Austria....
....which seems to coincide with having moved here....
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I found that a bit odd, to be honest, as there is much more to skiing than Meribel (and I don't just mean Courchevel or Les Menuires! )
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I have seen some pretty extreme examples. Some of the hardcore old people from back when Whistler and blackcomb were seperate mountains still refuse to ski blackcomb. Was introduced to a couple that go to Vail every year and have never skied any of the other ski areas nearby, even this year when their pass had a black out day at Vail they just took the day off rather than visit Beaver creek or arapahoe basin (for those that don't know the epic pass covering Vail can also be used at a bunch of very good local hills nearby so most people tend to spend at least one day visiting somewhere else).
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I was thinking in terms of it mattering whether you are aiming predominantly off piste or not
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Yep if you just want to ski groomers from village a to b in Europe a piste map is probably enough. If you are looking to make the most of the off-piste in a North America resort it's more complicated, and Europe off-piste even more complicated due to avy risk. It can be just little things like going into the right section of trees where there is better spacing, knowing when to cut out before it gets flat/too tight, knowing where to get powder two days after it snowed etc.
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I guess some personalities seek variety/adventure, some seek security/predictability, others seek a mixture of the two. Each to his own, I guess!!
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Meh. Going to 3 valleys instead of tignes is hardly some daring adventure. I don't think people that return to the same resorts necessary are less adventure seeking or looking for security (go look at some of those that move to Chamonix and la grave!) , often they just found somewhere they like better than anywhere else. Of course you can never be sure, as realistically nobody is going to visit every resort, but once you've had a decent sample size and looked at info on the internet or through word of mouth you can get a pretty good idea. As others have said familiarity can also increase quality of ski days, which is the main reason most of us are there.
If your focus is travelling somewhere new and interesting and skiing is the second priority I would agree that it makes sense to visit new places each time. Lots of cool options out there if that is your thing (Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, Iran, Lebanon etc.).
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You know it makes sense.
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Going to 3 valleys instead of tignes is hardly some daring adventure
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+1. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I like to go to new places but if I only have a long weekend then flying to Geneva and going to Chamonix or PdS maximises the time on slopes vs time off work.
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Poster: A snowHead
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[quote="boarder2020"]
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I have seen some pretty extreme examples. Some of the hardcore old people from back when Whistler and blackcomb were seperate mountains still refuse to ski blackcomb. Was introduced to a couple that go to Vail every year and have never skied any of the other ski areas nearby, even this year when their pass had a black out day at Vail they just took the day off rather than visit Beaver creek or arapahoe basin (for those that don't know the epic pass covering Vail can also be used at a bunch of very good local hills nearby so most people tend to spend at least one day visiting somewhere else).
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Yep that Vail thing is weird but probably comes down to an individual freaking out at the unfamiliar so sticking to what they know they can do (in terms of precise runs) is best. I have some mates locally who ski the Beav almost exclusively because it is slightly down on the tourist crowds (and the tourists don't ski where they are skiing anyway). They'll ski Aspen in preference to Vail (with a 4 pack) and only go there really for social skiing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have been back to some places more than once, but after skiing a place twice, I like to go somewhere else, just for a change of scenery.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have some mates locally who ski the Beav almost exclusively because it is slightly down on the tourist crowds
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That's what they tell you, bet it's the free cookies really! Never been but heard stories. Yeah I get it that most people would have a preference. But deciding not to ski because their pass had a blackout day rather than go to one of the other places (even if just for a day out with a couple of green runs down) seems insane to me when you've got a pass and spent all the money getting out there already. Fwiw they've done 2 weeks per year for the the last 4 at Vail, and I'm assuming they skied in Europe prior to the first trip so I would assume they are reasonably competent skiers.
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I went to Kitzbuhel for 8/9 consecutive holidays. Forced to change as the food in our fave hotel wasnt as good, and also felt we needed a change, as we had skied out Kitz. So reluctantly (in some ways) we decidedm after a recomendation, to try Galtur/Ischgl. Pleased we did as it was refreshing to explore a new ski area, which I know we could ski and explore for many seasons.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In my book, one of life's absolute joys is using skiing as an adventure to experience new places and cultures.
I think someone who has visited the same place for donkeys' years on the spin should take the plunge, branch out and discover that the world really is such an amazing and diverse place for skiing.
But, like with everything, it's each to their own.
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| Quote: |
In my book, one of life's absolute joys is using skiing as an adventure to experience new places and cultures.
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Which places have you travelled to for skiing? If you mean places like Lebanon, Japan, Russia, South America I'll give you it. I just don't buy visiting 99% of ski resorts in western Europe or n America being an "adventure" or great "cultural experience".
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| enduroaid wrote: |
We have explored a bit, I've skied weeks in.
Chamonix - loved it but expensive and the lifts are crap, plus you really need a car.
Saalbach - amazing skiing but found the town to be a bit soul less and just full of drunks and strip bars, again expensive for accommodation.
Kitzbhuel / Kirchberg - was just ok...lifts were old
Selva val gardena - really enjoyed it, mountains were amazing- and so was the food and value for money, but the town lacked any life, 1 bar, no one out walking at night.
verbier - amazing skiing and lifts but i've never been so aware that i'm not rich haha!
So i guess my question is are we odd for constantly returning back to zillertal every year? do others do the same? basically just your happy place and you can ski the same place all the time? |
What's odd about it?
You've tried a few places, found the one you like the best and goes back every year. I really can't see what's wrong with that. In fact, I would do exactly that myself.
I live in the same place for ... gosh 10 years! I know there're many other towns that has better nightlife but a pain to get anywhere else, or have better cycling right out the door, or beach steps away but no night life to speak of. Nowhere has the balance of convenient than where I'm living to get to all of the above. So, where I live isn't the "best" of anything but "good" for a bunch of thing *I* care about!
I will happily continue to enjoy the area around where I live. I hope you'll continue to enjoy zillertal every year!
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Which places have you travelled to for skiing? If you mean places like Lebanon, Japan, Russia, South America I'll give you it. I just don't buy visiting 99% of ski resorts in western Europe or n America being an "adventure" or great "cultural experience".
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Oooh! Well don't buy it then!
The dictionary defines 'adventure' as follows: An unusual and exciting or daring experience.
After skiing at around 200 locations on 4 continents, I can state with absolute certainty that I have had adventures - as well as culturally enlightening experiences - in Western Europe, as well as in far-flung locations like Chile, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. Sometimes ski adventures, sometimes not - but always as part of a trip to somewhere new to ski.
So it's actually not possible to experience something culturally different in Western Europe? That everywhere is exactly the same??  Hmmm....
Even somewhere like the Austrian Tirol is culturally different to the UK. I suppose that quirky stuff like cows dressed in floral head dresses coming down from the alpine pastures for winter amidst a huge street party could be just another day down on a UK farm? ...Or, in Switzerland, that the bizarre and amazing Sumpfer Stilzi street festival that we stumbled on could be Notting Hill?
It's definitely the case that travel (whether based on skiing or not; whether in Western Europe or not) broadens the mind...  And that there are indeed adventures to be had in bog-standard ski resorts...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I guess it depends what is the adventure. You could live the rest of your life in Chamonix and have an adventure everyday in terms of skiing/climbing crazy lines. The adventure is in the activity rather than the place itself though. I mean my grandma could go and spend a pleasant week in Chamonix and even take aguille du midi up one day, but that wouldn't be an adventure.
That's why I say ski resorts are not particularly adventurous. Pretty much the whole point of a ski resort is to make things comfortable and accessible to tourists. It's not some epic journey into the wild for 99% of the people that visit. Is choosing to go to Zermatt over returning to the three valleys inherently more exciting? Not imo.
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So it's actually not possible to experience something culturally different in Western Europe?
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Yes, it's possible. In the grand scheme of things western Europe is very similar though. If England is your base measure at 1 on a 1-10 scale somewhere like India might be a 9. Austria is going to be 2,3, maybe 4. Again, I'd say a ski resort is probably the least cultural part of a country because it's designed for international tourists. If you really want to maximise culture you would probably aim for a few days somewhere other than a ski resort, but this is not realistic for most people who want to maximise their time skiing. How many people that fly into Venice to ski have actually spent a day in Venice?
I do think you can combine adventure, culture, and skiing though. Zabardast film is a great example.
I've been fortunate to travel a lot though so maybe my standard for what is an adventure and culture is a little too high. I spent a couple of weeks in Afghanistan hiking on my own up in the mountains visiting the Kyrgyz nomads staying in their yurts to me that is a little adventure and culture.
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Skied now over 20 years and always wanted to try something new. As a result I have holidayed in Arinsal, Ski Welt (Scheffau, Brixen, Westendorf, Kirchberg), Niederau, Alpe d Huez, Les Deux Alpes, Les Arcs (1950), Le Plagne (Belle), Serre Chevalier, Flaschau, Whistler, Revelstoke, 3V (Courchevel, Le Tania, St Martin), Schruns, Arlberg (Zug), Ski Circus (Saalbach, Hinterglem), Le Thuile, Sella Ronda (Canazei, Alba, Arrabba), Ischgl, Fiss.
I now know what floats my boat (extent, good infrastructure, decent mountain restaurants, village charm, bit of apres). And what doesn’t (the whole mountain Canadian thing made me realise I preferred piste over powder).
I therefore find myself returning more often to 3 or 4 of the above and continually wrestle with the conundrum what’s by favourite resort? Still don’t have the answer but if I were to return to the same place year after year then perm any one from the following - St Martin, Zug, Saalbach, Fiss.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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All this talk of “adventure”. For me, as with most holiday skiers, if was enough of an adventure to try different ski resorts in a variety of Alpine/Pyrenean countries every year.
I look back on it as akin to “playing the field”, or “sowing one’s wild oats”, before ultimately deciding to “commit” to one resort - preferably one that ticks all the boxes.
Whilst the wisdom of marrying one’s first fling is perhaps questionable, I don’t find it at all odd that someone, who has had a reasonable look around the well-known and rated ski resorts of Europe should become disenchanted with serial monogamy and decide to stick with the resort that has impressed them the most.
Like falling in love and marrying, the subsequent experience tends to be a much deeper and satisfying process. You get to know your favourite places intimately - ski runs, lesser known areas, overlooked pistes, mountain huts, etc. You get to know and make friends with locals, regular seasonal workers, regular visitors, etc. You make yourself comfortable in that resort - perhaps your own accommodation, facilities for getting around, renting/servicing equipment, entertaining and accommodating friends and family. You acquire useful contacts and ski companions. You feel in touch with what is going on and where “the action” is at any given time. You find it easy to navigate yourself around and work out the best way of getting from A to B, and how long it’s likely to take. You don’t need to waste time poring over piste maps, and getting lost, and missing lifts and connections. You know the best places to eat and drink, and what is the recommended choice at each of your favourite restaurants. You know where to find the friendliest bar staff, and where to go for a quiet, civilised drink - or a party atmosphere, according to the mood.
There are certainly worse things than marrying your favourite ski resort and deepening your relationship with it. One day you might want to be there all the time!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
| Good stuff |
Exactly. This is our 30th season in Wengen, and it's now our home. I realise that we are incredibly fortunate to be able to do this, and as you point out, it’s the people that make it so valuable.
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@telford_mike, a kindred spirit - glad you agree. Ditto Saalbach for me (except that it’s been a “mere” 13 years - our 15th consecutive Christmas coming up). Brexit and Covid19 have inspired us to make it our main home, and we don’t have much desire to go traipsing round other resorts (408 km of interconnected piste skiing currently satisfies our thirst for adventure). If we should begin to feel restless, there is always the Salzburg Superski pass, or Italy, Slovenia, etc. “just down the road”.
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You know it makes sense.
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I don't think so - we first went to Vallandry (Les Arcs) in 2006 and have been every year since.
We have talked about going somewhere else but we like it there - would happily buy a place there funds allowing
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I'm a creature of habit, so think it's normal. I've only been skiing for three years and sadly can only go once a year. Each year I've been on the Birthday Bash to Arabba. I've enjoyed the company of some wonderful people and laughed until my sides hurt. The pink tinged Dolomites are simply stunning. The hotel and food are excellent, as is the skiing and the Bash organisation; so why would I want to risk going somewhere else?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Boris, yes, we liked Vallandry and had a couple of holidays there. In fact we liked the Les Arcs/Paradiski area more than most. As with most places we liked, we fantasised about buying a holiday home there, but it didn’t tick the après-ski/social life box for us.
@Awdbugga, I think it’s the risk, and in many instances the certain knowledge, that going somewhere else will be anti-climactic and disappoint, in comparison with one’s favourite place, that dampens down the spirit of adventure and leads one to keep returning to the “chosen one”. I used to organise three chalet parties a season, one to Saalbach, and two to different French resorts each year. I soon began to realise that I looked forward to one much more than the others, and the more you keep going, get to know people, and deepen your connection with a particular resort, the more you begin to question the wisdom of going anywhere that gives less pleasure - both in anticipation and realisation.
Having said that, a friend of a friend had never been anywhere except Mayrhofen, ever, for over twenty years - which I thought was a bit crazy.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
Having said that, a friend of a friend had never been anywhere except Mayrhofen, ever, for over twenty years - which I thought was a bit crazy. |
I think we've gone full circle
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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but it didn’t tick the après-ski/social life box for us.
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@tatmanstours, can understand that - very little in Vallandry - funnily enough part of the reason it appeals to me
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
why would I want to risk going somewhere else?
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@Awdbugga, you may become bored seeing the same old tired, boring, drink-sodden, bunch of stinking scumbags.
You may want to experience new sights, new pistes, new people, new cuisine?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| AL9000 wrote: |
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why would I want to risk going somewhere else?
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@Awdbugga, you may become bored seeing the same old tired, boring, drink-sodden, bunch of stinking scumbags. |
Mind you, it wouldn’t be the same without @Lechbob
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It boils down to how much time and money we have to spend on our skiing adventures. We can’t all be like Jimmy Petterson, skiing around the world; most of us have one, two, or, if we’re very lucky, three weeks a year. We don’t want to end up wishing that we’d gone to our favourite resort, where we know we would probably have had a much better time.
When we’re older and retired, and we have worked out what we like life is so much easier if we stick to what has been tried and tested, and we know to be relatively risk and hassle-free.
Maybe it’s an age thing, but I know that, if I go out for a curry or a pizza, I won’t be disappointed if I have a lamb maricha or a diavalo. I’ve tried enough of the other options to know what will make me happy.
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
All this talk of “adventure”. For me, as with most holiday skiers, if was enough of an adventure to try different ski resorts in a variety of Alpine/Pyrenean countries every year.
I look back on it as akin to “playing the field”, or “sowing one’s wild oats”, before ultimately deciding to “commit” to one resort - preferably one that ticks all the boxes.
Whilst the wisdom of marrying one’s first fling is perhaps questionable, I don’t find it at all odd that someone, who has had a reasonable look around the well-known and rated ski resorts of Europe should become disenchanted with serial monogamy and decide to stick with the resort that has impressed them the most.
Like falling in love and marrying, the subsequent experience tends to be a much deeper and satisfying process. You get to know your favourite places intimately - ski runs, lesser known areas, overlooked pistes, mountain huts, etc. You get to know and make friends with locals, regular seasonal workers, regular visitors, etc. You make yourself comfortable in that resort - perhaps your own accommodation, facilities for getting around, renting/servicing equipment, entertaining and accommodating friends and family. You acquire useful contacts and ski companions. You feel in touch with what is going on and where “the action” is at any given time. You find it easy to navigate yourself around and work out the best way of getting from A to B, and how long it’s likely to take. You don’t need to waste time poring over piste maps, and getting lost, and missing lifts and connections. You know the best places to eat and drink, and what is the recommended choice at each of your favourite restaurants. You know where to find the friendliest bar staff, and where to go for a quiet, civilised drink - or a party atmosphere, according to the mood.
There are certainly worse things than marrying your favourite ski resort and deepening your relationship with it. One day you might want to be there all the time! |
Sounds like your 7-year itch is well overdue!!!
You should probably ditch your frumpy Austrian Hausfrau and try an exotic Italian signorina...a cute French coquette...a demure Japanese Geisha...or even a brash Aussie Sheila!!
There's a whole world of variety out there still waiting for you! 
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| luigi wrote: |
| tatmanstours wrote: |
All this talk of “adventure”. For me, as with most holiday skiers, if was enough of an adventure to try different ski resorts in a variety of Alpine/Pyrenean countries every year.
I look back on it as akin to “playing the field”, or “sowing one’s wild oats”, before ultimately deciding to “commit” to one resort - preferably one that ticks all the boxes.
Whilst the wisdom of marrying one’s first fling is perhaps questionable, I don’t find it at all odd that someone, who has had a reasonable look around the well-known and rated ski resorts of Europe should become disenchanted with serial monogamy and decide to stick with the resort that has impressed them the most.
Like falling in love and marrying, the subsequent experience tends to be a much deeper and satisfying process. You get to know your favourite places intimately - ski runs, lesser known areas, overlooked pistes, mountain huts, etc. You get to know and make friends with locals, regular seasonal workers, regular visitors, etc. You make yourself comfortable in that resort - perhaps your own accommodation, facilities for getting around, renting/servicing equipment, entertaining and accommodating friends and family. You acquire useful contacts and ski companions. You feel in touch with what is going on and where “the action” is at any given time. You find it easy to navigate yourself around and work out the best way of getting from A to B, and how long it’s likely to take. You don’t need to waste time poring over piste maps, and getting lost, and missing lifts and connections. You know the best places to eat and drink, and what is the recommended choice at each of your favourite restaurants. You know where to find the friendliest bar staff, and where to go for a quiet, civilised drink - or a party atmosphere, according to the mood.
There are certainly worse things than marrying your favourite ski resort and deepening your relationship with it. One day you might want to be there all the time! |
Sounds like your 7-year itch is well overdue!!!
You should probably ditch your frumpy Austrian Hausfrau and try an exotic Italian signorina...a cute French coquette...a demure Japanese Geisha...or even a brash Aussie Sheila!!
There's a whole world of variety out there still waiting for you! |
Looks like the ski bunnies website is working for some. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Sounds like your 7-year itch is well overdue!!!
You should probably ditch your frumpy Austrian Hausfrau and try an exotic Italian signorina...a cute French coquette...a demure Japanese Geisha...or even a brash Aussie Sheila!!
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Been there, done that, got the tee-shirts
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good to hear from Swiss Tony there
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