 Poster: A snowHead
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£60k careful invested ten years ago may have returned the price of fantastic ski holidays all in different places all over the world each year
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Possibly, possibly not. TBH I cannot be bothered to cost how much 4 weeks skiing will cost the 3 or more of us a year, but suspect it will need a huge return. In fact I don't look on the apartment as an investment, rather simply a spend.
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I suppose it’s all about what you would do with the money spent to buy a ski apartment.
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Indeed, you can put the money in the bank or enjoy it. I am happy in the way I enjoy it
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Renting it out to cover the running costs helps of course, but should also consider the inconvenience, agency cut, wear and tear, higher utility bills, cleaning, and of course taxes.
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Apart from filling in a form authorising the agency to rent it out for certain weeks there is no inconvenience apart from having to pack all our personal stuff away at the end of each of our visits.
We may be lucky but wear and tear has been rather small
I have already taken the agency cut out of my income. I never even look at the price the renters are paying, only what I receive
The utility bills may be one or two euros higher, but if we go for a week in autumn and use the electric fan heaters it will swamp the extra cooking done by guests
Cleaning is part of the agency cut.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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When you rent it out you have restricted the amount of time you can use it yourself to say a quarter of the season? which is quite different to booking a ski holiday for whenever you want to go.
My utility bills were much higher years ago when we rented our place, mostly the electricity for hot water (all year) and obviously non stop heating during winter. Water use also adds up over the year, then if you provide wifi too....no free lunches.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@polo, Of course I can reserve the apartment for whenever I want to go. I just do not want to go over the midwinter break period. The resort is too crowded and the rental income is high. Apart from Febuary and early March there are few rentals. On the average year it rents out 6 or 7 of the 17 week season so about a third of the time.
With the exception of electricity for cooking and for the TV all the other utilities, heating, water, hot water, wifi etc are covered by the service charge. The apartment is heated throught the winter and hot water throughout the year. There is no discount if you leave the place empty.
I also like the fact that the place is in use not standing empty.
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| Ultra wrote: |
| Is it me but are ski holidays going up in price by a ridiculous amount these days? |
When you say "these days" do you mean "this year"? I mean from what I read you said the last 4 years have been very similar amounts?
If you are talking about this year then clearly there are exceptional circumstances.
If I were going mid-March (off peak) I would be holding to see how things pan out. Lots of potential kinks in the road before then.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| £60k careful invested ten years ago may have returned the price of fantastic ski holidays all in different places all over the world each year. |
Well, yes:
Gold and the FTSE have doubled in 10 years
£60k in Apple shares 10 years ago would now be worth £850,000
£60k in Tesla shares 10 years ago would now be worth £5m
£60k in Bitcoin 10 years ago would now be £60m
I could go on.
Property is ok when it is at least holding value, allowing for inflation, and provided the upkeep can be covered by rentals, and you can sell it if you need to. And if you like going to the same place all the time. I know too many people who have lost heaps on their alpine properties when they actually do the maths properly. However, I also understand the attraction, you're a long time dead.
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Going back to the original question:
I have used a certain chalet company based only in Val d'Isere for many years. When the 20/21 prices were announced it said flights & transfers would no longer be included and dinner would only be provided on 5 nights. For these changes we could expect a 15-18% drop in prices...
The week I usually go shows a 2% drop in price (!) - but flights, transfers & an extra dinner out add up to an invisible rise of at least £250.
So yes - next year will be far more expensive
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Opportunity cost in investment is for... investment.
Opportunity cost for a property is you're limited to using it in one location.
As an investment, I wish I had bought in Winter Park during the 2009 recession. It would have doubled in 10 years, roughly (assuming rental offsets some upkeep expense, and cost I don't spend in hotels).
But that was before the mega-pass of Ikon/Epic. Had I bought, I would have skied exclusively at Winter Park. Not a bad place. Just not nearly the fun of skiing all over: Whistler, Banff, Tahoe, Jackson/Taos/Big Sky... and Japan!
I'm "glad" I didn't buy at Winter Park.
I'm poorer financially as a result. But I'm much richer in ski & travel experience.
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I suppose it’s all about what you would do with the money spent to buy a ski apartment.
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That's the key. You can: 1) invest it in something and use the return LATER for something you really want; 2) enjoy it now.
If it increased in value, great! But you'll need to sell it to realize the value. The moment you sell it, you lose the enjoyment part.
As for reducing the cost of expense of skiing, that's only if you return to the same place year after year after year.
Properties are looked at favorably because you can combine the investment & enjoyment. So if the investment doesn't pan out, at least you enjoyed owning it at greater expense. Chuck the lose up as "luxury" of your holidays.
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Easyjet etc was selling really cheap half term flights for next season (just after Covid hit), including £1 for skis or hold luggage - if you filled your boots with some that then this winter is incredibly cheap.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| Easyjet etc was selling really cheap half term flights for next season (just after Covid hit), including £1 for skis or hold luggage - if you filled your boots with some that then this winter is incredibly cheap. |
I did and it is. 
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| denfinella wrote: |
| I think the gap between luxury and budget skiing holiday costs is increasing. |
For me, it's the gap of my definition between budget and luxury that's increasing over the years! 
The budget end still hasn't changed much. A long drive from my house to the mountain, both ways! Or if out of town, cheap motel away from the slope, hire a cheap econo-box car that I have to juggle to fit both skis and my luggage, no apres, just take-out dinner while watching TV and early to bed.
"Luxury" used to mean a nicer hotel with a pool/hot-tub, within easy reach of slope (short drive/bus/walk), a good sized SUV with room for skis + luggage, a bit of eating out, maybe a drink.
20+ years on, "luxury" means ski-in/ski-out slope-side lodging, hot tub AND swimming pool, dining out in chic places (hint, needs reservation), things to do on day off (or partial days when weather is marginal).
"Budget" trips still happens. Mix it up with "luxury" trips. And everything in between (self-catering apartment to half-board hotel)
Naturally, with the increasing gap between "budget" and "luxury" definition, so does the cost differential. 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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[quote="johnE"][quote]
"my brand new laptop comes with a keyboard dollar symbol but no euro symbol - weird"
Hold down Ctrl & Alt and press 4 then the € symbol will come up like magic, John.
You won't need it for much longer anyway because the € will soon go the way of every other currency union in history - into oblivion.
The EU itself won't be far behind.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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[quote="boarder2020"]My budget for last season in canada
"£335 per month accom"
Where in Canada did you go to get accom that cheap, @boarder2020?
Assuming this was the per person cost, how many were sharing?
I've always wanted to do a season, esp as season passes are so much better value than for a week or two, but it's always been the accom cost that makes it impractical as most places are big enough for at least 4, but the cost in my case would only be split by 2, and even then not for the whole rental period.
I'd really appreciate as much info as you'd be happy to share on this accom, @boarder2020.
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Return flights with snowboard carriage £150, Apartment in Bourg 2 weeks £1k, 10 non-consecutive days Les Arcs pass £435, Transfers £90, spending money for food and drink £300 (I already have 100 Euros from a past trip and I mainly cook or order takeaway pizza and take baguettes for lunch). So for 2 weeks in the snow about £1800-£2k which is fine with me and not really any different from previous years, £1k a week for a top French resort.
I chose Bourg this time as two weeks in a mountain apartment can get a bit claustrophobic and there's really not much in the Arcs resorts unlike Tignes or Val, I also prefer the idea of being in a village if I'm there for 2 weeks even if I have to walk to the Funi every day, I did it before when I first visited the area in 2010.
I've only just noticed the 10 day non-consecutive pass is only for Les Arcs though so if I want to go over to La Plagne it's an additonal 20 Euros per day which again seems fair as the few times I've bothered going over there I've been met with horrendous bottle necks and flat spots (the scourge of the boarder), though I did get super lucky one year when they opened the glacier after several days of dumping and I managed to get on one of the first bubbles up, knee deep powder on the black run off the top whilst every one else was busy taking photos!
This is all assuming that Covid won't kill the holiday before it even starts, I can cancel the apartment up to 2 weeks before departure for a full refund so yeah, I haven't noticed any difference other than the madness that is covid.
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You know it makes sense.
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Where in Canada did you go to get accom that cheap
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£335 was a good deal. In golden (kicking horse) the price for a room in a shared house is normally around £350-450 per month. Of course you are going to pay way more somewhere like whistler. Lots of hostels too and most offer long stay rates, so if you don't mind sharing (I've done it and actually met some of my best ski partners that way), you can definitely find something below £350 per month. Of course if you want a luxury condo to yourself you are going to pay a lot more. What works for me might be unacceptable for you. I like being a ski bum, with zero work commitments, so I have to balance that out with cheap accommodation.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Try having kids! We only go the cheap weeks in smaller french resorts and I'm very chuffed to get a round trip - door to door for less than £3500 for a week. Not to mention time and money spent replacing grown out of gear too.
That said it's the one thing I look forward to all year and have the best time doing so it is definitely worth it. Doesn't mean I can afford it though.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Hotdogger, I rented a 60 m2 one bed apartment in Borovets for the season for £1,000 and bought a season ski pass for less than £500.
There are ways and means for cheap ski holidays
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Oh I agree. I could do it cheaper and have done when it's just been me. But I can't be bothered going all out budget with a family. Hopefully this will be the last year paying for a weeks ski school per child which will open up options a bit as I only go for English classes which out of term time are few and far between.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I go for 2/3 weeks and drive in January ..so avoiding half term...so no airport costs or ski carriage and I have my own skis..and I reckon that getting a car round the ski resorts ( usually about £375 including the ferry and 1 stop on the way)...a decent small hotel in the Dolomites and France is usually €60 a night and tha ski pass about £250 a week so that works out at aboy £850 a week if 2 share and only fuel cost if I change resorts after a week
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Does anyone know if hotels n the alps are currently doing the same as British hotels by only allowing one person per room unless you are family (or in a Bubble).
This could significantly effect the cost if they are.
I have two trips booked for next season, both sharing a room with a friend (not a family member). They were happy to take my booking. Will be interesting to see what they do if that is the case!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Eggfried, No problem in the Dolomites or Germany this summer.
Out of curiosity how do they know who is or is not a family member?
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@Eggfried, what @johnE, said - just say you co-habit in the UK!!
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Looked back at our trips, family of 5:
2016 - L2A - T/O - £1,140pp (one child aged 2 so basically only paying for 4 people and 2 lift passes) - Easter Hols
2017 - La Tania - Cat Chal - £1,385pp ( one aged child 3, so only paid for 4 lift passes) - Easter Hols
2018 - Meribel - S/C - £1,483 - all 3 kids in lessons/limited lift passes - Feb Half Term
2019 - Tignes - S/C - £1,461 - all 3 kids in lessons/4 lift passes as youngest was on the free slopes all week - Feb Half Term
This includes Flights, Accom, Childcare, Transfers, Lessons, Ski Hire, Lift Passes, Food & Drink - I am budgeting £1,500pp this year
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No thanks! I've seen enough of my friends quality of life go down to much after having kids. I like my freedom and having money and sleep too much.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The price of our trip to Obergurgl next season has already risen by £140 per person from when we booked it about six weeks ago. Booked through Inghams. So some benefit in booking early.
We actually were watching for the week before but it got fully booked. Obergurgl is expensive but I wouldn’t be booking it now if we had to pay the increase. Would now be almost £1900 each with ski hire and lift pass.
Would have liked to drive out and rent from a local, but having been one of the unlucky ones who arrived in La Plagne on 14th March, only to be told everything is now closed. Then the aggravation of trying to get some of my trip costs back. I wanted the security of a package holiday this year in case it all goes wrong again!!
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
No thanks! I've seen enough of my friends quality of life go down to much after having kids. I like my freedom and having money and sleep too much. |
can’t say you are wrong BUT last Feb half term we went on holiday to Serre Chevalier, with my Mum, Dad, sister and her two children and her partner his two children and our two girls. We had a chalet we shared between us and we all ski’ed / boarded together. That really was a very special holiday, to have all 3 generations together on the slopes.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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. I wanted the security of a package holiday this year in case it all goes wrong again!!
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@Eggfried, That is the way I am leaning this year too. After having a trip to Arabba (also with Inghams) cancelled the week before departure in March. Then taking an alternative to Kitzbuhel, as we were flying into Innsbruck, only to have that cancelled the day before departure. The no quibble, swift, full refund was a relief. We will use Inghams for any Euro ski trips next season for peace of mind, even if their prices do rise a bit. We would be flying anyway, as living where we do, it is an 8hr drive to get to Manchester. Which rules out driving as an option for us.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@boarder2020,
Sleep? I wish I could remember that! 
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
No thanks! I've seen enough of my friends quality of life go down to much after having kids. I like my freedom and having money and sleep too much. |
Who would have thought the death of civilisation would be caused by the need for inexpensive and peaceful snowboarding. Kids are horribly expensive items I agree, especially on a ski trip, but necessity is the mother of invention and I can confirm that earning the big money only kicked in for me when I really needed it - ie shortly after sprog number 1. My quality of life went up but it also introduced me to another wonderful phenomenon - the boys' week!
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You know it makes sense.
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We are up to 9 families on our dads & lads weekend this year, only sad bit is me being chuffed at being able to beat (not as in beat up) at least one of the 13 year olds
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@dode, Quote - We will use Inghams for any Euro ski trips next season for peace of mind
I also have nothing but praise for Inghams. They got us home ASAP on emergency flights. The reps in resort were brilliant on the Saturday and Sunday following the closedown in resort. The poor chalet lads were having to look after us (a chalet full of disappointed and worried guests) and do a stock take in the chalet immediately as everyone would be unable to leave France if they hadn’t left by Tuesday due to the lockdown.
Due to certain circumstances we even got a voucher for the cost of our holiday. I know a lot of people who traveled out that day didn’t get the full cost of their holiday back as it was classed as ‘Curtailed’ not ‘Cancelled’. I believe that lawfully they were only obliged to give either a pro-rata refund offer or a letter for their insurance company. It took a lot of time to sort as their staff were furloughed, and we had booked through an agent, so it all had to be done via the agent (who were useless and completely went off the radar!!!).
Inghams eventually bypassed them and dealt with us direct.
So both trip next season are booked with Inghams.
Praise where praise is due!!
Well done Inghams.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Eggfried wrote: |
Would have liked to drive out and rent from a local, but having been one of the unlucky ones who arrived in La Plagne on 14th March, only to be told everything is now closed. Then the aggravation of trying to get some of my trip costs back. I wanted the security of a package holiday this year in case it all goes wrong again!! |
We were in the PDS the previous week and were flying back Sun 15th. We'd intended to ski in Switzerland on the 14th before heading to hotel just outside Geneva that evening ready for our flight home Sunday morning. Switzerland closed its lifts on the 14th though so we skied in the French sector which was still open that day. Saw loads of people arriving that day who'll have had to go home when France announced they were closing from the Sunday. Madness that they didn't announce it 24 hours earlier and prevent a lot of avoidable travel.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@boarder2020, keep living the dream for the rest of us that can't!
I didn't discover skiing until I was into my 40's so the ski-bum life was never going to be on the cards.
Gotta say though I get a real kick out of skiing with the kids, just as much as conquering some gnarly mogully black run. Seeing them develop and just generally mucking about in the snow gives me such a buzz.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Flights Ed to Verona £45. Half Board in Madonna di C £420. Lift pass £250? Car hire split 3 ways £40. That's hanx luggage only. Can add another £75 for checked bag and half a ski carriage.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Flights Ed to Verona £45. Half Board in Madonna di C £420. Lift pass £250? Car hire split 3 ways £40. That's hanx luggage only. Can add another £75 for checked bag and half a ski carriage.
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FAQ
