 Poster: A snowHead
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So, unravelling the above perhaps better not get too excited about spending any hard-earned in the Alps hiking, biking or skiing anytime soon then?....looks like 20/21 won't be happening for the majority as shortly after a CV-19 brief recovery, and then the prospect of no-deal Brexit then the economy will tank and there'll only be the rich in UK who can afford to go skiing, back to the 1960's! What a prospect that is...... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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UK citizens might also have EHIC. It's not restricted to EU citizens. In any case, EHIC is no substitute for good insurance, as it only entitles you to state medical facilities. Ie not necessarily totally free at point of delivery, unlike NHS, nor evacuation from pistes, nor repatriation, etc. And EU data framework is red herring.
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Here we go again.
EHIC is for EU and EFTA countries. There is no member state outside of the EU/EFTA that is in EHIC. The UK has signalled intention to leave ECJ and therefore that will mean no EHIC.
In terms of exit strategies for a pandemic, reciprocal health arrangements (ie EHIC) will be crucial. Covid19 hospital admissions are very resource heavy, so likely govts will open up tourism first to citizens of countries where their own citizens receive reciprocal care.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Android2000, 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Directed at the previous poster, with whom I have discussed the post-Brexit arrangements on another thread, not you Markymark.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Android2000, I will be covered by my EHIC and travel insurance including covid at the time of my next ski holiday as it falls entirely within 2020.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Nothing booked but generally only book around September time, by which time hope the situation will be clearer.
Will take cancellation insurance out with apartments (assuming they still offer it) and as we drive are a little more relaxed on that - would only lose Eurotunnel.
Always self-cater and rarely eat out, so not too bothered if we don't eat out at all
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@mitcva, I take it you are an insurance salesman
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UK citizens might also have EHIC. It's not restricted to EU citizens - covers Iceland, Norway, Switzerland.
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The way the government is pressing for a hard brexit at any costs I would say it was highly unlikely we will still be in the EHIC scheme. But it is all speculation. We can hope we remain in it. We are still in EHIC for our summer holidays if allowed to go
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as it only entitles you to the state medical facilities that apply to locals.
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The word "only" is not needed here. Do you expect a reciprical agreement to give better benefits to non locals than locals. May I also point out that most travel insurance policies are also not free you have to pay an excess on any claim and that some companies have been rapidly rewriting their terms condititions to specifically exclude Covid-19. The EHIC is the only way you will get treated for it.
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@Android2000, " EEA countries, Switzerland and the United Kingdom" (and the Faroe Islands and Greenland). So UK could have gone for EEA and kept it happily.
And it's residency not citizenship that qualifies.
(All per WikiP).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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[quote="johnE"]@mitcva, I take it you are an insurance salesman
No!
"The word "only" is not needed here. Do you expect a reciprical agreement to give better benefits to non locals than locals."
I was simply pointing out that the state health coverage in most EU countries is far less comprehensive than in the UK and you often have to pay at least a proportion up front. That doesn't happen with the NHS.
Nor do most EU state health provisions cover you when you are skiing. Hence you need insurance if you are a skier. Here's what even The Guardian (a rabidly pro EU paper) says: "Many medical costs in Europe may be covered by the free European Health Insurance Card (Ehic), but it is not a suitable substitute for travel insurance on a winter sports trip. The Ehic will not pay to get you down off the mountain, for example, nor will it necessarily pay for all transport costs and medical treatment you may need if injured, and of course it won't cover you for lost baggage, cancellation or having to cut your holiday short".
I have no idea how negotiations about EHIC might go, but given that EU citizens stand to benefit more from our NHS than UK citizens stand to benefit from EU health provisions (and there are more than twice as many Europeans living in the UK than visa versa) I'd have thought the EU might wish to keep us in it. But who knows.
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The Ehic will not pay to get you down off the mountain, for example, nor will it necessarily pay for all transport costs and medical treatment you may need if injured, and of course it won't cover you for lost baggage,
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That is correct. That is why people buy insurance with their lift passes
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I have no idea how negotiations about EHIC might go, but given that EU citizens stand to benefit more from our NHS than UK citizens stand to benefit from EU health provisions (and there are more than twice as many Europeans living in the UK than visa versa) I'd have thought the EU might wish to keep us in it. But who knows.
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That is indeed speculation, but the demographic of the Other Europeans living in the UK is very different from the British living in Spain. They need less health care. Personally I would describe the Guardian as not Rabidly Brexit unlike many of the foreign owned newspapers.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Based on our recent experience with Sunweb, I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| _sam_? wrote: |
| Based on our recent experience with Sunweb, I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole |
What happened?
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Would love to book for next season but need to get my money back for Easter first.
And I'm unlikely to book with the previous Tour Operator, which is a shame as they were a specialist and previously very good.
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You know it makes sense.
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Apart from those who have credit they need to find a use for, I can't see spending money to book anything in advance. Why? You think there will be the usual competition so you don't get to go?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@swskier, who is offering 99p a bag? (Genuine question!). Trying to work out if flying to Canada in January is going to work out.....
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Snowsartre, EasyJet.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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All will charge difference if tickets more expensive and prices very low at present
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@Snowsartre, There's no comfort in that is there? Why book at all now, my advice is hold off and see how it pans out, i'm booking nothing that involves a deposit, or payment in full until we're out of the pandemic, and even then only if and when there's a vaccine.
Who'se beardy-wierdy air btw? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| mitcva wrote: |
| ... The Ehic will not pay to get you down off the mountain, for example, nor will it necessarily pay for all transport costs and medical treatment you may need if injured, and of course it won't cover you for lost baggage, cancellation or having to cut your holiday short. |
Well the airline are legally responsible for costs relating to luggage they lose or damage (Montreal and Warsaw conventions).
I suppose you can multiply-insure stuff like that, but the beneficiary would be the insurance company as you won't get two pay-outs.
My understanding is that already insurance companies won't pay to get you down off the mountain,
for transport costs, or for medical treatment if you get Covid-19.
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Air Canada: it depends what sort of fare you have. I have some internal flights which are fully refundable, so they're.... fully refundable.
That said, AC has not yet refunded them and if I don't hear something from a human there within a few weeks I'll charge them back.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Markymark29, virgin (beardy weirdy air)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Given work has now announced a 15% pay cut for all staff any decisions re next season will wait until much later in the year.
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| philwig wrote: |
| mitcva wrote: |
| ... The Ehic will not pay to get you down off the mountain, for example, nor will it necessarily pay for all transport costs and medical treatment you may need if injured, and of course it won't cover you for lost baggage, cancellation or having to cut your holiday short. |
Well the airline are legally responsible for costs relating to luggage they lose or damage (Montreal and Warsaw conventions).
I suppose you can multiply-insure stuff like that, but the beneficiary would be the insurance company as you won't get two pay-outs.... |
Airlines are not the only people who can lose your baggage. I know of at least a couple of people where it gone missing on the transfer: either accidentally removed at an intermediate drop-off, or where the coach has driven off without unloading everything. And at least one of those was never recovered.
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I can't see how most European ski resorts will have any future if they don't open more or less as normal next season and for countries like Austria where the general economy is highly dependent on tourism and especially ski tourism the pressure is even greater to open.
It's not a question of putting the economy before health, but rather without a functioning economy there cannot be a functioning health system, it relies on taxes and peoples spending including tourism.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| jw83113 wrote: |
I can't see how most European ski resorts will have any future if they don't open more or less as normal next season and for countries like Austria where the general economy is highly dependent on tourism and especially ski tourism the pressure is even greater to open.
It's not a question of putting the economy before health, but rather without a functioning economy there cannot be a functioning health system, it relies on taxes and peoples spending including tourism. |
It's a real chicken and egg. I think we once there is a vaccine (assuming that there is one) it will be a little different, but for now we have a real dilemma.
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| ecureuil wrote: |
I suppose you can multiply-insure stuff like that, but the beneficiary would be the insurance company as you won't get two pay-outs.... |
Airlines are not the only people who can lose your baggage. I know of at least a couple of people where it gone missing on the transfer: either accidentally removed at an intermediate drop-off, or where the coach has driven off without unloading everything. And at least one of those was never recovered.[/quote]
Quite!
I've even seen a pair of skis being carried away at the ski area shuttle bus! Luckily (not by luck but by vigilant) the owner was watching it and stopped the bus to retrieve it from the confused and bewildered "thief".
Luggage, without the distinctly different look of skis, can very easily be mistaken. Airlines had invested heavily on automated systems to sort luggage. Transfer bus companies? Not so much.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| jw83113 wrote: |
| I can't see how most European ski resorts will have any future if they don't open more or less as normal next season and for countries like Austria where the general economy is highly dependent on tourism and especially ski tourism the pressure is even greater to open. |
Austria is currently working out the details of its plan to open hotels and leisure facilities on 29th May, so to me this sounds like they will have figured out ski resorts by December, and possible sooner for glacier areas. I think the bigger question for those in the UK and elsewhere, is whether the border will be open as normal so that you can come here. There will be huge pressure for it to be open, especially by winter season.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| FrediKanoute wrote: |
| Given work has now announced a 15% pay cut for all staff any decisions re next season will wait until much later in the year. |
Sorry to hear that. Are you UK based? No need to tell me any more than that but I'm just wondering how many folks will be hearing that or worse in the weeks or months to come.
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| robboj wrote: |
| FrediKanoute wrote: |
| Given work has now announced a 15% pay cut for all staff any decisions re next season will wait until much later in the year. |
Sorry to hear that. Are you UK based? No need to tell me any more than that but I'm just wondering how many folks will be hearing that or worse in the weeks or months to come. |
There's a whole thread dedicated to that https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=152552
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You know it makes sense.
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| jw83113 wrote: |
I can't see how most European ski resorts will have any future if they don't open more or less as normal next season and for countries like Austria where the general economy is highly dependent on tourism and especially ski tourism the pressure is even greater to open.
It's not a question of putting the economy before health, but rather without a functioning economy there cannot be a functioning health system, it relies on taxes and peoples spending including tourism. |
I agree and said this in a post on another is similar thread a couple of weeks ago. If 20/21 doesn't happen at something very close to normal profitability then what happens in 21/22 is going to be irrelevant for an awful lot of restaurants, accommodation, shops and even some resorts.
if that means less numbers then merely raising prices won't help, governments will have to subsidise.
And that's just Alpine tourism. If that carries on exponentially then most developed countries will become nothing more than a giant life preservation system attached to a struggling economy with a decreasing ability to pay for it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| jw83113 wrote: |
I can't see how most European ski resorts will have any future if they don't open more or less as normal next season and for countries like Austria where the general economy is highly dependent on tourism and especially ski tourism the pressure is even greater to open.
It's not a question of putting the economy before health, but rather without a functioning economy there cannot be a functioning health system, it relies on taxes and peoples spending including tourism. |
The EU has some interesting statistics on European winter tourism data here. If borders remain closed to non-residents the two countries with the most to lose in absolute terms are Spain and (perhaps surprisingly) the UK. But in relative terms Austria has roughly 75% of winter bed nights from overseas visitors; with (selected others) Spain at 60%; Switzerland, Italy and UK at 50%; France at 30%; and Germany at only 25%. This shows why Austria will be very keen to open up again, but France and Germany may not be too badly hit, particularly since some of their shortfall could be made up by their own residents who currently holiday abroad.
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Poster: A snowHead
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We have booked up for my Stag trip next March.
Apartment on AirBnB - only a reasonably small deposit down and rest not due till 4 weeks before.
Flights with EasyJet. £84 return with 23kg checked baggage (took advantage of the 99p luggage deal).
Will leave everything else to much closer to the date to see how we are looking. The only reason we had to book the accomdation so far in advance was because there was 11 of us and we aren't going for a week, which really narrows down the options!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Fridge03, Sounds like it could get messy! Enjoy....if its a limited outlay like that probs worth a punt at this stage.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Running costs for the lift operators are going not going to change much even if there’s a significant reduction in numbers. Similar for hotels and restaurant staff costs. Not sure how the resorts will be able to operate profitably with no foreign tourists...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Will keep a close eye on sales over the next few months. Looks like most people who’ve booked so far have done it independently though. Maybe best to avoid Sunweb for now
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Skyscanner coming up with BA flights from Gatwick in January even though BA have said they might cease to operate out of Gatwick. I wouldn't book flights with any of the operators yet as I think there are going to be some fairly drastic changes.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I’m coming from the U.S. and am looking at Austria in late January or early March. I skied the Arlberg and Ischgl in January of 2019. Solid resorts. I have to wonder though, if they’ll suffer more, economically, than other Alpine resorts. Their apres-ski scenes were pegged as breeding grounds for the virus, spreading it throughout the EU and North America. It’s a bit cynical to wonder if they’ll offer better vacation deals as a result.
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The EU has some interesting statistics on European winter tourism data here. If borders remain closed to non-residents the two countries with the most to lose in absolute terms are Spain and (perhaps surprisingly) the UK. But in relative terms Austria has roughly 75% of winter bed nights from overseas visitors; with (selected others) Spain at 60%; Switzerland, Italy and UK at 50%; France at 30%; and Germany at only 25%. This shows why Austria will be very keen to open up again, but France and Germany may not be too badly hit, particularly since some of their shortfall could be made up by their own residents who currently holiday abroad.[/quote]
They are interesting, but I don't think France will be any less enthusiastic, when you dig a little deeper into the numbers.
Whilst France may have a 30% "overseas beds", France also has a large amount of resorts that, through habit and advertising, are sort of "French only".
Many of the big resorts attract the majority of that 30% and they will be the big losers if France doesn't "re-open".
It's nuanced.
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@NickYoung, +1. In addition, the locals in our resort in France don't always feel their in-country visitors contribute much to the economy: "They buy all their food in Paris, drive down with everything they need, never go out, and want to pay as little as possible for ski school - all the restaurants, private instructors, bars and shops are full of British people."
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@ecureuil, I have nothing to base it on apart from gut feel, but if you took Brits out of places like 3V, Les Arcs etc I think it would leave a huge hole in finances for many.
Hoping, and reasonably optimistic, for a late Jan trip
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@esaw1, looking at flights for Easter 2021, their Gatwick-Geneva
Departures were about £700 compared to £50-60 for Heathrow. Which seemed very strange pricing.
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FAQ
