 Poster: A snowHead
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@queenie pretty please, +1. Had a great time staying with them at Half term. We booked our flights using BA flight pass - so If you are finding flight prices higher that you like I would consider that route.
I have seriously looked at booking with Neilson in the past. Won’t be doing so now. The supposed advantage of a TO goes out the window when they play tricks like that!
It is looking more and more likely we won’t ever book with a TO again.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@queenie pretty please, I'm sure Flangesax's place is lovely but has it got an indoor pool, an outdoor pool, waterbeds etc .....? 
(I know it's heresy to say so on here but sometimes it's not just about the skiing. The food, service and facilities count too.)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@maggi, it isn't heresy at all. We all have different needs and expectations from our holidays. We stopped booking TO holidays after a less than brilliant summer trip and when we realised we could book it all ourselves for less, but that was for a family of 4, not a couple wanting hotel accommodation with pool and a decent restaurant. From my own point of view we now have the best of everything, but it isn't for everyone.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
it isn't heresy at all
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+1
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@maggi, I see that crystal go to the Alpine Palace and have availability in Jan, might be worth a look.
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@tarrantd, thanks. I've seen that. Trying to get husband to agree to book but it's still several hundred pounds dearer than what we paid. We got a good discount with Neilson by booking early  . Will do the sums but I think it's still cheaper than booking independently.
I've done the tiny apartment with sunken beds. I've done the attic room in chalets where the "chef" is on a gap year and can't cook for toffee. I don't know how many ski holidays I have left so I want luxury!
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@maggi, January is normal off peak. Would be almost tempted to wait now and book something last minute. Booking early gets you the good early booking discounts so you are now too late for those. Also can you be flexible with your dates? Is if you don’t find anything you like for the week you were going can you keep watching the deals until you see one tug like but could a few weeks later or even in March?
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@NickyJ, if flexible on destination, I’d tend to agree with the ‘book last minute’ advice in these circumstances.
But if @maggi, and other half have their hearts set still on a good hotel in Saalbach-Hinterglemm, then I doubt that would work in Jan next year. Not with a discount on normal price anyway.
Based on including similar in late Jan searches the last 2 seasons, demand seems high, prices stay up, hotels and flights tend to sell out.
Perhaps local expert and regular SnowHeads contributor @tatmantours could comment and maybe help?
However, if flexible on country and ski area, a late booking in a good hotel with a decent discount should be easy to achieve. It’s probably what I’d do, saving Saalbach-Hinterglemm for an early discounted booking for 2021.
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@PeakyB, must admit I was assuming a flexibility on WHERE just as long as it was a nice hotel with min facilities....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| NickyJ wrote: |
| @maggi, January is normal off peak. Would be almost tempted to wait now and book something last minute. Booking early gets you the good early booking discounts so you are now too late for those. Also can you be flexible with your dates? Is if you don’t find anything you like for the week you were going can you keep watching the deals until you see one tug like but could a few weeks later or even in March? |
Humph, I wish. I booked early with Crystal in Canazei. If I'd waited until now I would have saved £1000. 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Ghost Dog, gosh!
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You know it makes sense.
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| maggi wrote: |
Update. Now had a reply from Neilson.
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| Unfortunately the impact of losing Thomas Cook flights has meant we have had to review our whole winter programme. Regrettably we have had to remove some destinations as a result of this, one of those being Hinterglemm. |
So basically, not enough customers going to Salbach/Hinterglemm for them to make money. And yes, according to their T&Cs they can just cancel us with no penalty, other than offer a refund, even thought they've had our money for months (early booking discount). Off course, that doesn't work the other way round  .
My son and his girlfriend were also booked with Neilson. He did have Thomas Cook flights and it was us, initially, that was sympathising with him! He has now heard that his holiday to St Anton is going ahead because Nielson have secured flights with, you've guessed it, Jet2 . They, however, are staying, not in an independent hotel but in a Neilson chalet hotel, which is, I guess, where the plot thickens. Major losses if they don't get guests to their own hotels/chalets so stuff the rest of us who want to go to resorts where there are none.
Legally, we don't have a leg to stand on but it stinks. |
Definitely think you should take the positives out of this. It's really sad that a whole company has gone under, people having lost their jobs, lost salaries, lost their whole livelihoods. You've effectively lost nothing.
Glass half full rather than half empty approach 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Legend., I can see why you're a Legend
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| maggi wrote: |
Update. Now had a reply from Neilson.
| Quote: |
| Unfortunately the impact of losing Thomas Cook flights has meant we have had to review our whole winter programme. Regrettably we have had to remove some destinations as a result of this, one of those being Hinterglemm. |
So basically, not enough customers going to Salbach/Hinterglemm for them to make money. And yes, according to their T&Cs they can just cancel us with no penalty, other than offer a refund, even thought they've had our money for months (early booking discount). Off course, that doesn't work the other way round .
[...]
Legally, we don't have a leg to stand on but it stinks. |
@maggi I am not a lawyer, but since both your booked flights and hotel are still available, and not directly affected by Thomas Cook, I would have thought you have a strong case for additional compensation, despite their T&Cs. E.g. for the additional cost for you to now book the same package.
If Neilsen won't budge, you could make a complaint to ABTA. I think you have to pay a fee, but if you win their arbitration/conciliation decision will be binding on Neilsen.
Or if you feel really strongly about it, perhaps look into the Unfair Contract terms legislation (link).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If you had your heart set on Saalbach, try Ski Miquel.
They have a chalet Hotel in Saalbach, a very short walk to the Schattberg Express. Everything we had with them was pretty reasonable and well priced.
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The developing situation:...
For the last ten years, the following factors have been at play:
unpredictable weather meaning people are booking late - lots of stress and conservatism in UK ski companies
consolidation - many small operators pulling out
labour law changes - EU and other countries changing employment laws, so that operators have pulled back and suffer reduced margins
currency crashes - no pattern other than down which has created chaos for operators' projections and planning
It will be back to making your own, I think. Book AirBnB, drive to Alps, enjoy places which are off the beaten track, get to know places, have fun, drive back and repeat.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Perhaps local expert and regular SnowHeads contributor @tatmantours could comment and maybe help?
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Happy to help in any way I can. Saalbach has always been a resort where demand tends to exceed supply, and of course this year’s expansion to include Zell am See/Kaprun in the ski area will stoke the demand even more. The impression I’ve always had is that well-located/desirable accommodation tends to fill up during the main part of the season, but I haven’t done any research or checking.
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Unpleasant as the disruption may seem, I can also see the TO’s side.
They probably blocked off x number of rooms with a significant discount, expecting to be able to fill those rooms with their customers with some profit. But with the flights canceled, they couldn’t see how they could bring enough customer there to fill those rooms. The hotel, on the other hand, doesn’t see that as their problem. If a TO can fill all their blocked rooms, they don’t qualify for volume discount!
So the TO can’t offer at a price point to make a profit. Had to cancel and refund the money to those who book early.
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@abc, although I can SEE their side. I don’t think it is right that they can keep you deposit against a contract and just decide, it isn’t affordable anymore and just return the deposit. They have been earning interest on that money (or using it to ease their cash flow!).
Whereas if the customer decides it isn’t affordable they lose their deposit.
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@NickyJ, but the contract allows cancellation up to a time limit, doesn’t it?
The “cashflow” is most likely used as deposit to hotels and airlines though. How much of the deposit are actually sitting in the bank earning interest for the TO?
Last edited by After all it is free  on Sun 6-10-19 12:13; edited 3 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| abc wrote: |
@NickyJ, but the contract allows cancellation up to a time limit, doesn’t it?
The “cashflow” is most likely used as deposit to hotels though. How much of the deposit are actually sitting in the bank earning interest for the TO? |
From what I am reading it isn’t reaching the hotels (based on those hotels which were left owed money with TC collapse. Not saying the contract doesn’t allow it just feel it is morally wrong and very one sided. The right to cancel for the person purchasing he holiday he consumer looses out, yet the right to cancel for the person supplying the holiday they supplier doesn’t have to forfeit anything unless within a few weeks of travel.
Whether that money is “earning them interest” it is with the company to use in whatever means suits them and isn’t earning the consumer interest by having been spent.
It feels completely morally wrong. The more things like this happen the more I will steer clear completely of the TO’s which the more people take that stance the more they will go out of business.
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Yeah, but...
TOs collect customer together to get volume discount, and then pass some of the discount back to the customers!
Don’t get me wrong, I rarely book any holidays with TOs. I prefer to have direct dealing with hotel and airline instead. Adding any extra layer of indirection always makes me uneasy. There’s additional risk for that extra saving when some thing goes wrong with the many layer of TOs involved.
I would use a TO only when the saving is significant. One takes the risk with ones eyes open.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@maggi, well a partial result anyway. Enjoy the holiday!
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@maggi,
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I too am affected, for the first time in years we decided to book a package ,to saalbach in jan usually we drive to saalbach but later in the season as dont like driving in poor conditions in the dark. Neilson have cancelled the booking as stated above by others.
Ive rung emailed etc and tried to get an honest answer as to why tc collapsing has anything to do with our hol that was flight with jet2 to salzburg an airport that tc didnt fly to ,a hotel that tc as far as im aware have no booking to .I could have understood better if that was the case.
I have come to the conclusion that neilson are suffering and have decided to use the collapse of tc to mitigate their
potential losses as they have cancelled several whole resorts .( very quickly after the news broke re tc) They have offered other places( obviously not full) and other hotels which basically tells me they are the ones they are contractually obliged to fulfill ,unfortunately non appeal and no way would I take up their offer to travel with them now.
However not to be defeated looked into organizing a flight transfer and hotel direct and all possible but not at the price we had booked although not far off, and the chosen hotel only had a landhaus available. Reverted to tui/crystal nothing at first mid week and then yesterday main hotel room available flights from same airports not too different times in fact probably better, bit of a room upgrade, unfortunately now no early booking discount .So have rebooked with crystal ended up £61.50pp more but thats livable with. What stinks is neilson dont wont or cant give a full explanation of how come they are doing this . Myself having been and still am in my own business going on for 40 yrs would not breach a contract because of the failure of a third party/ or event without huge effort to put the customer in the same position as before with no cost to them which leads me to conclude they are not a company I would deal with in the future.Whats more if ive been able to re organise the holiday to within less than 6%increase, they as so called experts should have been able to and I think they should pay the difference especially as the negative publicity and hoteliers wrath they will get will cost them far more in the future, though they will return our deposit.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@ski for fun, good point all around.
I had a similar experience with a TO years ago, which pretty much soured my taste to ever booking with TOs since. In my case, I was able to arrange alternate transport on my own while the “professionals” at the TO were unable to to so.
My experience led me to conclude 1) they’re no more “professionals” than me; 2) a TO had to handle a large number of clients, so an individual typically got shafted in the one-size-fits-all response to the crisis (whatever the crisis was).
That said, I would not hesitate to book through a TO when they offer attractive price! I just live with the risk for the discount.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ski for fun wrote: |
I have come to the conclusion that neilson are suffering and have decided to use the collapse of tc to mitigate their potential losses |
Yes, I'm sure that's true. They haven't got their own chalet hotel in Saalbach/Hinterglemm area so they can just cancel their provisional hotel accommodations and not take on staff to send there. A lot of people who they've cancelled will probably be talked into taking up their offer to transfer to another resort, filling up transfer coaches and fully utilising resort staff.
| Quote: |
| What stinks is neilson dont wont or cant give a full explanation of how come they are doing this |
I know! Glad you're sorted now, though, and fingers crossed it all works out for both of us. Less choice next year, I guess, and higher prices .
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
They haven't got their own chalet hotel in Saalbach/Hinterglemm area
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They used to have the Chalet Julianne (next door but one to us), and also the Hotel Central (which was a great budget option). Both were in good locations. Curiously they got rid of both a few years ago, which struck me as a pity, although I don’t think the Julianne was their decision; the building was redeveloped.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| ski for fun wrote: |
| .......So have rebooked with crystal ended up £61.50pp more but thats livable with. What stinks is neilson dont wont or cant give a full explanation of how come they are doing this .... Whats more if ive been able to re organise the holiday to within less than 6%increase, they as so called experts should have been able to and I think they should pay the difference especially as the negative publicity and hoteliers wrath they will get will cost them far more in the future, though they will return our deposit. |
You had a contract with them. What term in the contract are they using to justify cancellation? They can't base it on minimum numbers this far out, and if the hotel and flight are not with Thomas Cook it is difficult to claim "extraordinary circumstances".
You could consider taking them to the small claims court for the increase in costs, plus your expenses. Perhaps not worth the hassle if just two of you, but if more then it might be worth it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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having talked to a solicitor pal off the record ,his opinion is that a small claims court would possibly at best result in a derisory offer prior to court date and a non disclosure of my thoughts and experience. So as a service to all fellow skiers think its in the best interest of us to continue to share my experience and thus ultimately cost neilson far more than they have profited by in not honouring my booking .bearing in mind the runs are longer if you take the high ground and revenge they say is dish best served cold. im hoping for freezing conditions and a bit of powder on my rebooked trip to saalbach, ho ho
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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having talked to a solicitor pal off the record ,his opinion is that a small claims court would possibly at best result in a derisory offer prior to court date and a non disclosure of my thoughts and experience. So as a service to all fellow skiers think its in the best interest of us to continue to share my experience and thus ultimately cost neilson far more than they have profited by in not honouring my booking .bearing in mind the runs are longer if you take the high ground and revenge they say is dish best served cold. im hoping for freezing conditions and a bit of powder on my rebooked trip to saalbach, ho ho
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just got the credit card statement and am pleased to say neilson have kept their word and refunded my deposit in full so they have done what they said, re cancellation,though I still wont bother with them again as their answer to the question why has the tc collapse anything to do with my jet2 flight booked before has never been answered
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sorry you got messed about. For balance we just did our first package holiday (beach holiday with Neilsons) and the customer service was excellent. We’ll be using them again for Summer.
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@Alastair Pink, impressive - good to see they didn't leave you to sort it out. Makes mental note...
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