 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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One little girl asked me how old I was. 60, I told her. She looked impressed. My husband added that sometimes I rode a snowboard. She looked even more impressed and said "My granny is 61...." and paused. Then added "....but she's dead".
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Poor child, but how do you not notice that you are on a chairlift with another person, no matter how small.
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Same here, sometimes I’ve been asked to watch a kid on the lift with me and other times they’ve just put them on and assumed it was ok. It’s not very often that it has happened in either circumstance but then I don’t tend to holiday at school holiday times.
I absolutely do pay attention when they are next to me though, I say hello and have a little chat if they want to and watch them at the top ski off to meet the rest of their group so they are ok. Some talk, some sit there as still as statues and don’t say a word.
Last week actually on a T Bar the kid in front of me got off and stayed on the track at the top where he was inevitably going to get whacked by discarded T-bars so I got off slightly earlier and told him to come to the side so he didn’t get hit. His group were just behind me anyway so they weren’t long joining him.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| One little girl asked me how old I was. 60, I told her. She looked impressed. My husband added that sometimes I rode a snowboard. She looked even more impressed and said "My granny is 61...." and paused. Then added "....but she's dead". |
(pause for comic effect)
....from snowboarding!
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I think I’d have died if I’d carried on snowboarding
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| VolklAttivaS5 wrote: |
Very strange that they so say didn’t notice! You’d think that when the child was first trapped they’d have made some sort of panicking noise-surely!!
And as for skiing off at the top-all very odd. I hope they find them and get an explanation.
That’s the thing with those automatic opening bars. Once they are closed they are closed. I’ve never seen any incidents where people have opened the bar too early on the older style lifts in 60+ weeks of skiing I’ve done so I’m not sure why they brought them in? I’m not sure I like being locked in to the chair I think I preferred the old version. You can stop other people lifting the bar too early anyway by keeping your feet on it. |
This week we ended up with ours opening early. I took my skis off and the darn thing went up aboutb2 m out with our two kids in the lift. I thought my husband did it and he thought I did. Luckily our kids are well trained and didn’t fall or jump (they’re 6 and 7)
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| pam w wrote: |
| IME one is always asked ... |
It's always like that in BC. I've been responsible for things which affect whole populations before, but it's a different kind of scary being responsible for someone small who's right there.
I'm always scared they'll slip between the bar and the footrest, so I'm ready to grab them by whatever should the need arise. It's never happened.
They ignore me almost always. They can't tell how old you are when you're kitted up, but I suppose anyone over about 10 appears ancient.
| pam w wrote: |
| ...Several French kids have told me I talk funny.... |
French kids can't understand me, but French Canadians find my poor French easier to understand.
Coincé - now I know what it means, but I've no idea what it sounds like. And if I did know, I probably could not make the sound until drunk.
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| Cheesie168 wrote: |
| I always treated little ones as I would like my children to be treated. |
+1
And you don’t even need to be a parent to get the concept.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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mrs endo and I helped a little lad on a chair in Whistler. Probably about 4 yrs old. Constantly turning round, moving along the chair etc. I ended up grabbing hold of his hood so he didn't fall off the thing! Very chatty he was as well!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Cheesie168 wrote: |
| I always treated little ones as I would like my children to be treated. |
+1
And you don’t even need to be a parent to get the concept.
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Christ I’m glad I didn’t read this before I took my 6 year old skiing last week. I hope the poor girl is ok.
It didn’t really cross my mind before going away that my son would be on chairlifts with random adults. He said he had some nice conversations though. I’d have spent the week worrying if I’d seen this.
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You know it makes sense.
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My first ever week of skiing and our learner group was sharing the learner blue runs and chairlifts with groups of small children, probably 5 to 7 year olds.
Almost every lift trip involved minding a child from ski school.
I was alone with a lad of probably 5 when the lift came to a very sudden stop and the lad slipped forward and somehow I managed to grab his hood and dragged him back onto the seat.
The seat was swinging violently tipping him forward each time and because we had stopped midway between the support stantions was also bouncing 10 or 12 feet.
The little fella was screaming 'Mama' 'Mama' whilst I was choking him holding on by his hood.
It took several minutes for the swinging and bouncing to subside and the lift to move on.
By the time we got to the top there were a lot of distressed skiers - and the kids were quite upset too !
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Any decent person would look out for an unaccompanied child on their lift. How could you not throw even a glance over to check? Then to ski off...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| wand77 wrote: |
| Any decent person would look out for an unaccompanied child on their lift. How could you not throw even a glance over to check? Then to ski off... |
Exactly! It makes no sense. It could just be that they were assholes. They are out there.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Update below from the Dauphine... girl showing signs of improvement and it seems she was not afterall trapped by the bar but was instead found on top of the bar lacking oxygen.
We have been in Chatel this week and using this lift a lot. The thing that stands out is that the seat is quite deep causing the bar to be quite high. They have guards on some of the positions to stop little ones from sliding underneath. It’s automatic and locks but IMO unlocks too late at the top and causes a mini panic every time. I rode the liftbon Thursday at around 12:55 and saw a lot of commotion at the top lift hut - lots of medics looking in and and an adult being consoled outside. Had no idea at the time what was unfolding. The lifties were super careful on all lifts yesterday to ensure they were in the right position - geandarmes were present observing operations.
https://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2019/02/22/accident-de-telesiege-a-chatel-la-fillette-toujours-hospitalisee-les-temoins-entendus
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Ozboy, sounds like she fainted or something then? Maybe caused by panicking she wasn’t going to get off the lift.
Poor little thing
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@Ozboy, now I am even more confused by what happened
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Any decent person would look out for an unaccompanied child on their lift. How could you not throw even a glance over to check? Then to ski off...
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I don't really understand what happened with this incident, it sounds really weird, however...
I think there are scenarios where some people wouldn't look out for someone else's child.
Firstly, fear of random accusations. Some will say hyberbole, but it happens, there are a lot of idiots out there just waiting to point the finger, some people simply would rather walk away than even offer a hand to a child for fear of accusation. I'm not saying its right, but I can understand why the mindset exists with the ridiculousness of people today.
Secondly, if you're a beginner then you have your own issues to worry about (I appreciate there's no suggestion they were), as a beginner snowboarder for example, you are likely facing away and struggling to avoid falling over. As a beginner skiier, you're still facing away, albeit in a different fashion...and probably under slightly more control (thats not a slight against snowboarders, I board myself, its merely pointing out that a beginner getting off a lift has less control than a beginner skiier getting off a lift).
Thirdly, I think many people would assume its the lift operators responsibility to pay attention and stop the lift if anyone was in trouble.
I'm not commenting on whether any of the above are right or wrong...I'm merely saying they are believable real world scenarios.
For what its worth, I've probably ended up on a lift with children and not thought twice about it...but then I've also never been in a situation where everyone hasn't got off all together...in fact if anything normally the kids shoot off a couple of seconds first and I'm the sluggish one getting up last...so its quite tough to really understand what happened here. Logically if you're on a lift and someone doesn't get up, you wouldn't actually have to look back to see something was wrong, it would (logically) be blindingly obvious and you'd shout to the operator or (if possible) reach for the emergency stop.
Equally, when on the piste if you see someone who looks injured, you just go over and check, I'd just assume that's normal behaviour, but equally I can understand why people could easily assume someone had just fallen and was about to get up.
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Just trying to visualise her on top of the bar. It must have gone up otherwise the other people wouldn’t have been able to ski off. Was she leaning on it and was carried up as it lifted?
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I've always been so freaked out by little ones being on lifts on their own (meaning, not with the person the parent has handed over responsibility to) that when it was time to take my two for the first time, we paid extra to book them private lessons. I felt slightly happier knowing they were with their instructor 100% of the time.
I tried not to think too hard about the fact that I was sending them off on a mountain with a stranger who happened to be wearing the right colour ski suit in the meeting area.
Yes, I'm one of those parents! 
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So today my 8 yr old son was with me on a ski lift. He is a fairly ok skier (currently about 3 star esf level) but was day dreaming and somehow didn’t quite manage to sit on the seat and was left half hanging. I tried to pull him up but couldn’t and both I and others shouted to stop the lift but it didn’t stop so I had to drop him while the lift was still very low, this way he didn’t hurt himself at all but was a bit shaken up (and me too). The lift stopped only after I have let him fall... so a bit worrisome as I would have thought the liftie should have hit the stop button immediately. I am sure this sort of thing happens a lot, especially with young kids. My son should have known better and has been given an appropriate “lecture” on lift safety but this particular lift is the one serving a green run so lots of beginners and young kids take it. Am I wrong to be concerned about how long it took for the lift to stop?
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@Bella2015, yes because they are meant to be watching through the window when people are about to get on so they can react quickly IMO.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Bella2015, Yes, if it was more than a few seconds, ie time for him / her to work out that it was a real crisis, and not another bunch of noisy numpties making a mess of things but were actually perfectly OK. In most places I ski the signs usually tell you to put young children on the lifties side and it's normal for them to pay even closer attention and on the modern lifts they have a remote control if they are single manned. But then everybody makes mistakes, misses something, bit late to react.......
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@VolklAttivaS5, @skitow, in response to Bella2015 I think you mean "No..." (she's not wrong), rather than "Yes...".
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@ecureuil, yes you are right.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@skitow, interesting how we both took it as ‘am I right to be concerned’
Ah well!
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Poster: A snowHead
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We googled and talked about this a lot on our drive back to London today as it’s of special interest as we have chosen Chatel as our second home and its where our 4 and 7 year olds have been skiing this week and will be using this lift for many years to come.
One or the reports can be interpreted that she was suffocated with her neck against the bar which could mean she slid under and was being held in place by jacket / neck which could have restricted breathing.
What is different about the new lift is that the footrests are extended when the bar is lowered causing the riders to stretch and reach out their legs to locate the rests to pull them back towards the chair, while at the same time they are trying to sit comfortably, soft out poles, look after a child whist being locked in. It’s a moment of meyhem even without a boarder in the mix! I can see how in all this kerfuffle an unattended kid could easily slide upto their neck / chest, if not in a seat with a child guard, not helped by the deep modern ‘comfort’ faux leather seat and high bar. I’ve notined on older seats my kids have learned to lean slightly over the bar which pushed their bottoms back and keeps them upright.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Ozboy, Firstly have you seen any reports as to whether the girl is out of danger now ?
Secondly, to go back to an earlier post of mine, I am surprised if this is a regular beginner route and is a new / refurbished lift they did not change it to a telemixte ? It seems to be a standard thing in the french resorts I have been to recently.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've taken kids on a lift on my left side and refused kids on my right side because I'm blind. In advance of being asked I've waved/shouted ahead.
Then .....
Open goggles and mention I'm blind on one side. Always gets a laugh and an "fair enough, we understand" from the lifties. 
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@skitow, the maire has been tweeting updates and she is doing better.
https://twitter.com/nicolasrubin
As for the lift - it’s not quite beginner... there are nursery slopes with a magic carpet and button lifts nearby. PIerre Longue and Pre La Joux are the nearby lifts to take them up the mountaim as they progress. They upgraded Pierre Longue over the summer but retained many of the pylons and much of the start and end stations. I don’t know the requirements for a telemixtes lift but don’t thing they have the space to accommodate gondolas at either end.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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As I see this, a chair lift is a conveyance for all of the people involved and all occupants have a responsibility for the other occupants on the lift. So often I will ride a lift and someone will be trying to pull the bar down then putting their skis on the foot pegs when the bar support is on someones leg, or someone has their head down. Then they are trying to lift the bar up too early at the top, whilst others still have their skis on the foot pegs. People need to look around, show a bit of common courtesy and communicate on the lift, it just doesn't happen though, so I am not surprised this has happened.
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You have a duty of care to the other occupants of a chair lift whether they are six or 60 as a decent human being if nothing else. Failure to exercise that duty of care is in some legal jurisdictions a criminal offence; France being one of the legal jurisdictions, which is presumably why according to the link the Gendarmerie wish to speak to the other occupants of the chair who left the scene, an act in itself is pretty despicable and possibly criminal.
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I nearly sat on a small child last week 
Was on snowboard and with one of my sons, also on board, we'd gone through when gates opened and thought it was just the 2 of us. No-one else went when gates opened. So I moved to far left to give me more room with board, at last minute realised that liftie had grabbed a child through the gates to take lift with us.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Neil.c, most of us here probably adhere to this lift etiquette- however with the lift in question the bar comes down far too quickly and locks. Quite often it hits my helmet as not quite sat down and ski pants can get pinched under the uprights supporting the bar to the chair.
@jabuzzard, I read that the prosecutor is investigating the other passengers, who have been identified, for not intervening.
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@Ozboy, glad they’ve identified them.
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FAQ
