 Poster: A snowHead
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| NickyJ wrote: |
| @skimottaret, great news, please keep us posted. |
this
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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going by the internet ...... the best blood treatment is an Adrenochrome infusion .
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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5 weeks after first injection and definite improvement. Managing to do squats and back/front/lateral lunges (slowly) without pain. A few weeks ago got sharp pain when doing squats. Next injection in 3 weeks, delayed a bit but hopefully no big deal.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@skimottaret, my injections were done 8 weeks apart. I don't think you reach maximum benefit for a year or more after you start so it won't matter.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Raceplate, yeah my guy seemed pretty relaxed in terms of the timings, the mfg recommendation was six weeks then the third six months after first but he was relaxed with doing em in 6-8 week increments. "No point waiting" I seem to recall. I just wanted to get all three in before ski season...
Interesting to hear that you felt most improvement a year later. There is hope !
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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So, had my second injection today and was much easier than the first time. The first one was quite chaotic with lots of interruptions in an out patient room so they moved procedure to theatre. I had quite a bit of swelling after the first set so this time he gave each knee a local anaesthetic injection prior to the PRP/HA. My first time he mentioned a "double" sample of blood and I thought that may have caused the swelling but the double sample only referred to the fact that they needed enough blood for two knees, the amount in each knee was the standard dose. They drew about 50ml of blood total and injected approx 8ml of PRP into each knee. This second set of injections went in above the kneecaps, not sure if that is significant or not.
knees much less swollen compared to the first set and will do the 3rd set of injections in a few months.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sun 14-10-18 13:09; edited 1 time in total
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| This second set of injections went in above the kneecaps, not sure if that is significant or not. |
I didn't comment at the time but I thought the positioning of the injections you had first time was very odd. Miles away from where mine were. Only the plaster on your right knee second time matches where mine were done, the left doesn't.
My positioning was very consistent - from the lateral side into the middle of the joint space between the tibia and femur and behind the patella. That's the area of the knee with almost no natural circulation and so (I was told) is the area that benefits most from a high quality dose of blood. Effectively, it's the very centre of the joint and seems logical enough for an "even spread". I asked if my last injection could be biased towards the medial side because I have more problems on that side but it was not open to negotiation. I seem to recall that he said it could be done through the front of the joint (like your first ones) but it meant going through the patellar tendon which could be problematical for some people. You certainly had a lot more discomfort than I did so that bears that out.
I would think that that central space is also very difficult to reach from where the plaster is on your left knee second time unless it was a very long needle. But maybe your guy thinks you have a bigger problem area in a different place on that joint? Or maybe they're spreading it around because it's combined with HA?
I'm not sure how a local anaesthetic would make any difference to the swelling. My guy told me that the only benefit to a local was that you wouldn't feel the PRP needle going in. But you would still feel the LA needle going in so either way you feel a needle in your knee and it's pointless. Consequently, I just had the straight PRP injection each time. I have to say I considered it painless, the needle to withdraw the blood from my arm was more awkward than the one in my knee.
Putting all the procedural differences aside though, I'm still very positive that it will benefit you so all the best with it.
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@skimottaret, hope it works as those knees look a bit like mine 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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O do a lot of injections including PRP.
The purpose of the injection is to deposit the PRP ( steroid etc) into the sac that the knee joint sits within. The route into the sac is irrelevant as long as you get the needle in correctly.
The injection can be placed from the lateral( outside), medial side ( inside) and adjacent to the patella tendon, via the same route that a telescope is placed in the knee.
The medial route can be the most in uncomfortable. The “ arthroscopy route” is most likely to not get the tip of the needle into the knee. Injecting 6 mls of PRP into the knee fat pad accidentally would be excruciating. So I use the lateral route.
Local anaesthetic stings quite a lot when it goes in and hurts as much, if not more, as an injection of PRP without local. I only use it if the patient insists. Occasionally we’ll use some “ man spray” which is a cooling spray- like the stuff sprayed by physios all over football players as they writhe around in the pitch clutching an ankle. I don’t think it makes any real difference though but it is a distraction.
The most effective way of doing the injections is to get on with it as most of the discomfort is in the build up. The additional steps of drawing up local etc just increase anxiety levels.
I’ve been doing PRP for 3 years and am doing some work on the health economics. Picking the right degree of wear in the knee is important as there is little published on which knees it will works best on. Some systems of preparation of the PRP seem to be more effective than others
Jonathan Bell
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@Raceplate, To clarify a few things for future readers. My first injection was done in a seated position and the second lying down on a bed as @Jonathan Bell, mentions I don't think the entry point is a problem as long as injection goes into the sac.
Prior to putting in the second set of injections he asked me how I was getting on and I said the injections had definitely helped but the first set was quite painful which I recon he took as code for me being afraid of needles so he injected me with a local prior to my second injections. After the anaesthetic injection I talked further about the swelling and he did mention that it could have been due to getting some in the fat pad.
In hind site I think the initial swelling and pain was him incorrectly injecting a portion of the shot into my fat pad. He withdrew the needle after I winced more than a bit on the first attempt ! I had two separate blood spots / holes in the right knee afterwards so he must have had to adjust. Perhaps I moved during the first set of injections, the room was too busy or he just got it wrong and went into the fat pad.... Hard to say..
The good bit is the second injections went in very easy and no swelling afterwards, knees feel good after skiing yesterday!
Due to delays in the first two sets of injections he decided to hold on the third set until the springtime as the recommended interval is 6 weeks then 6 months post the first set. Fingers crossed for the ski season.
I would say that before treatment I self scored myself as mild to moderate arthritis (29) on this scale http://www.orthopaedicscore.com/scorepages/oxford_knee_score.html my right knee is worse than left.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Jonathan Bell wrote: |
I’ve been doing PRP for 3 years and am doing some work on the health economics. Picking the right degree of wear in the knee is important as there is little published on which knees it will works best on. Some systems of preparation of the PRP seem to be more effective than others
Jonathan Bell |
Thank you for commenting, always grateful for you taking the time to reply to these type of discussions.
My guy did say he thought it would be 50/50 to see benefit in my case but so far has definitely made an improvement. I do think that it would be great to have clearer subjective published information to review as to the level of arthritis that this treatment is most effective with. I had insurance and saw little downside so went for it...
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@Raceplate, Could you say roughly how much these cost if done privately without insurance? A friend of mine is interested but without private medical insurance and my insurers won't tell me... 
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You know it makes sense.
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I really wish you well.
I went through similar issues, except with lower back. First of all, skiing used to loosen it out. Then the back would start giving bother during the holiday, requiring treatment. Then became just too sore to ski. I went through various injections/oblation, into discs and facet joints. None of which worked. It was finally a fusion of L3/L4 that gave me 70% of my life back.
It is miserable when your old bones let you down. My advice, though you already know it, is not to push too hard, too soon, if the pain is eased. Easier said than done, though.
I have had to take 6 months off, to allow my back to recover, from pushing a little harder than was advisable in the gym. Now I'm back to square one, regarding fitness...certainly not worth it. Much better to lower the sights a bit.
Take care...and good luck with it all.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Old Fartbag,  I do hope you will be OK to ski in the upcoming season. Good luck.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Double post
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 14-10-18 16:13; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Raceplate, thanks for that , sorry I missed the link to costs in a previous post, will pass onto my friend. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Friend of mine is due to have stem cell (prp) on the NHS at Southampton U H it is several options on offer - they are not offering replacement as he is so young at 59....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@boredsurfin, good to know, my friend works in the NHS and is somewhat against paying for treatment...
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@skimottaret, I don't believe its generally available my friends consultant is putting up a case for him to have it - Southampton does a fair amount of medical research and it maybe linked to that.
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@boredsurfin, no worries but will pass on. can you mention who the consultant is?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Raceplate,
We are £995 for a course of three PRP injections. I think that makes us less than the prices you’ve found 😉 Part of the problem is that each syringe we use is over £100! I’m not yet happy that the adipose stem cell products are there yet I can’t see enough data to satisfy me that they are better or equivalent.
Jonathan Bell
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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How does someone get assessed and then recommended for PRP Treatment? Do you go through your GP and ask for it? I have private Health insurance with Vitailty so not sure if they cover, but figure that is moot if its not recommended.
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@FrediKanoute, Think it depends on your insurers, with mine I had to see GP and I asked/suggested during my GP visit that I needed to see a consultant. My GP gave me a referral and I contacted insurers to see if the knee consultant I had in mind and was on their list and he was and they agreed on the phone for an initial consult. The Consultant prescribed an MRI and then PRP after reviewing all other options with me.
Top tip, a physio friend who works privately said to make sure to tell your GP that it was an injury, not a chronic existing condition
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You know it makes sense.
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Sweet. I'd delay operations as long as possible. There is funky stem cell stuff in the pipeline.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@FrediKanoute,
To trigger insurance you may need to see a GP or speak to their own triage team. Other wise you can self refer by contacting direct .
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Poster: A snowHead
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An update after getting home after a fairly gruelling 5 weeks on the road. I had somewhat foolishly booked a lot of skiing on the trot and my days off were long drives to the next resort. My knees really held up well and compared to last season much, much improved. I took 50mg of Naproxen daily when skiing irrespective of any pain or swelling and tried to do some recovery work to reduce swelling which really helped.
Had my third set of injections yesterday and I am extremely happy with the results, my post ski swelling is way down, pain lower and an improved range of movement. I only had pain when skiing on rough hardpacked pistes and last month I was lucky with soft snow most days. Since my second set of injections I skied about 9 weeks of skiing and even managed to get a few hours of telemark skiing in which would have been impossible last year.. 
I will see how this holds up over the summer and most likely will get another set of injections in the Autumn for next seasons skiing.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 1-05-19 8:43; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@skimottaret, Are asymetrical hems in again for skirts this year ?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@skimottaret, I hadn't seen this thread before, but I'm very interested in it because my knees are always painful; I think it is due to a mix of too much football / rugby / skiing / running / climbing / being a fat knacker / etc.
I've had physio but nothing really seems to work (possibly because I can't be bothered to do the exercises when not actually in with the physio), but a friend recently suggested stem cell injections. Is this the same as PRP?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Sack the Juggler, No two different types of injections, I got told I was too far gone to benefit from Stem Cell therapy so don't have any info on that.
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@skimottaret, thanks for the update. Very helpful. I had stem cell therapy combined with PRP in June. I will write a fuller report if people are interested but my knees were pretty bad and I have just finished skiing 5 weeks with no swelling and not even so much as a paracetamol.
Having a two week break, then finishing the season in Colorado and Canada until April so hoping they will continue to hold up. I am thinking about having more PRP in April so your update is very useful.
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| Quote: |
I will write a fuller report if people are interested
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Yes please, be useful to keep it in this thread for balance.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ok. Will do when I get home over the weekend.
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| Sack the Juggler wrote: |
@skimottaret, I hadn't seen this thread before, but I'm very interested in it because my knees are always painful; I think it is due to a mix of too much football / rugby / skiing / running / climbing / being a fat knacker / etc.
I've had physio but nothing really seems to work (possibly because I can't be bothered to do the exercises when not actually in with the physio), but a friend recently suggested stem cell injections. Is this the same as PRP? |
No they are not the same. PRP has multiple papers published showing it works in worn knees. Stem cell injection have no published papers showing it works- it might, but so far there is no proof.
Jonathan Bell
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FAQ
