 Poster: A snowHead
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For the last 13 years, yes.
And buy food and beer.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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One flirted outrageously with my wife during a lesson many years ago. I gave him a tip that it was in his best interest to back the fcuk off. It was the only tip he got.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have never tipped any instructors as I feel the lessons cost enough already. I also feel it is a bit awkward. For that reason I didn't tip the cat skiing guys and this is the omly time I wish I had done, but then that's not a lesson so I supposemit doesn't count.
I do tip at restaurants though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've never known the ESF instructors I've skied with to accept tips. Not sure why? Is there something against it?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I wouldn't tip an instructor for simply providing a good service (that is their job after all!). Would tip if they went above and beyond expectations I.e. added 30mins extra to the lesson, got me a hot drink etc.
Don't really understand the "they don't get paid much" as a reason for tipping. Plenty of jobs don't pay well but we don't tip them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@davidof, I’ve never known an ESF instructor turn one down (about a dozen data points). Maybe it’s resort/school specific.
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When people talk about buying them lunch, is that because the lesson is all day and so you are naturally stopping for lunch? Or is it just expected you shout them lunch after a morning lesson as a 'tip'
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@rdk, I doubt the teacher is earning between £100 and £250 per week so don’t really see how it’s relative
Besides, I have lots of teacher friends who receive gifts from their pupil’s parents at Christmas or end of term
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| michaelf wrote: |
| When people talk about buying them lunch, is that because the lesson is all day and so you are naturally stopping for lunch? Or is it just expected you shout them lunch after a morning lesson as a 'tip' |
All day private lesson for me.
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Lunch as a tip is a difficult one - many of the instructors/guides will suggest a lunch stop at a restaurant well known to themselves and in return for bringing in clients they get their lunch free! At least it used to be like this in the alps a few years back.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
I think the Uber model would be effective at sorting wheat from chaff. Instructors/guides popular enough to be known/recommended will be booked direct with no need to race to the bottom while the rest will get an opportunity to build their personal brand from clearling at the bottom of the pool. No doubt families won't like the surge pricing at hlaf term etc though.
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It's debatable at best, it's well known that a London cabbie would take the view that Uber has damaged their profession.
The would-be providers operate much like booking com in using high commission to finance extravagant online advertising. Most don't seem well funded and probably won't go far. The existing players would certainly like to move into activities but I suspect they realise volume and margins are quite low.
In reality, no one has really come up an offering that's very attractive for providers or consumers. All at a time where's there's some loss of faith in services like TripAdvisor etc.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| ise wrote: |
It would be great if that were true but in many services and tourism roles, the customer is running the other way into the arms of online agents who are undercutting local operators and reducing rates. Several companies look at the Uber business model and think it might be applied to guides and instructors.
My experience is that generally people have a good instinct about when to tip. For example, it's more appropriate for a week-long trip than a couple of hours etc.
It's an embarrassing transaction  |
I think that, in this instance, the online world could be a boon. Not all, but many of the instructors are employed on variable time contracts anyway which mean that when they're not teaching they're not earning. If the commission to the third party is known, and fair, then that's probably better than the current situation whereby we, the clients, are paying large sums but a relatively small percentage is reaching the instructor providing the service. My feeling is that, with instructing, the name/brand of the ski school is almost entirely immaterial - it's the quality of the instructor that counts.
I'm happy to tip a reasonable amount for good service and don't feel any embarrassment about it at all - I just say 'Thanks very much for looking after me/them/us, really appreciated, please have a drink on me' and hand it over. The amount does vary depending on how good the service was though ....
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| ise wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
I think the Uber model would be effective at sorting wheat from chaff. Instructors/guides popular enough to be known/recommended will be booked direct with no need to race to the bottom while the rest will get an opportunity to build their personal brand from clearling at the bottom of the pool. No doubt families won't like the surge pricing at hlaf term etc though.
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It's debatable at best, it's well known that a London cabbie would take the view that Uber has damaged their profession.
The would-be providers operate much like booking com in using high commission to finance extravagant online advertising. Most don't seem well funded and probably won't go far. The existing players would certainly like to move into activities but I suspect they realise volume and margins are quite low.
In reality, no one has really come up an offering that's very attractive for providers or consumers. All at a time where's there's some loss of faith in services like TripAdvisor etc. |
I think that you're conflating two things. The model is a good one - where it makes sense support a peer to peer transaction - the issue is simply if the supporting platform either chisels a disproportionate percentage of the fee and/or actively subsidises one side or the other to distort the market. There is a reason that Uber is still resoundingly unprofitable - they're going for a market grab. If they priced at a realistic rate they would probably be not far off the rate of a London cabbie. And, long term, that's where they will be.
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You know it makes sense.
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| ise wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
I think the Uber model would be effective at sorting wheat from chaff. Instructors/guides popular enough to be known/recommended will be booked direct with no need to race to the bottom while the rest will get an opportunity to build their personal brand from clearling at the bottom of the pool. No doubt families won't like the surge pricing at hlaf term etc though.
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It's debatable at best, it's well known that a London cabbie would take the view that Uber has damaged their profession.
The would-be providers operate much like booking com in using high commission to finance extravagant online advertising. Most don't seem well funded and probably won't go far. The existing players would certainly like to move into activities but I suspect they realise volume and margins are quite low.
In reality, no one has really come up an offering that's very attractive for providers or consumers. All at a time where's there's some loss of faith in services like TripAdvisor etc. |
It's a cliche that the world is awash with "Uber for windowcleaners...." type ideas. Uber works because they have an enormous amount of capital to spunk up the wall. Would be techy ski bums somehow aren't in the same market though just occasionally someone with daddy's money/contacts has a bit behind them to fund something. Can't see the volume is really there in the ski instruction market. How many people are going to seek out a specific portal for just the one transaction per year?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
It's a cliche that the world is awash with "Uber for windowcleaners...." type ideas. Uber works because they have an enormous amount of capital to spunk up the wall. Would be techy ski bums somehow aren't in the same market though just occasionally someone with daddy's money/contacts has a bit behind them to fund something. Can't see the volume is really there in the ski instruction market. How many people are going to seek out a specific portal for just the one transaction per year? |
I'm sure there are a few ski-bums trying it - they're a bit off my radar 
The companies that are on my radar seem to be coming from science park incubators or similar. I don't think I've really seen anything with technology that would even close to being innovative though.
| Blackblade wrote: |
| I think that you're conflating two things. The model is a good one - where it makes sense support a peer to peer transaction - the issue is simply if the supporting platform either chisels a disproportionate percentage of the fee and/or actively subsidises one side or the other to distort the market. There is a reason that Uber is still resoundingly unprofitable - they're going for a market grab. If they priced at a realistic rate they would probably be not far off the rate of a London cabbie. And, long term, that's where they will be. |
That's arguably not the experience with Online Travel Agents, I think we see that 80% of bookings in Europe are via Booking com and Expedia and we've not seen any softening in their commissions. More normally this business model just needs a huge amount of capital to burn through to gain dominance, once that's done their targets for returns and revenue growth are rather more aggressive and not less.
There may yet be some true innovation in the product and technology. It just doesn't seem to be around so far.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We tipped our instructors on a recent trip, they went the extra mile, put in more hours than they were contracted to, including volunteering to guide us on a rubbish day that they had cancelled (postponed to later in the week). My take on it is that the tip is deserved if they have exceeded expectations.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| snowdave wrote: |
| @davidof, I’ve never known an ESF instructor turn one down (about a dozen data points). Maybe it’s resort/school specific. |
Maybe? Although you'd think instructors in our little resorts with uncertain snow would take every penny they could, but no.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| FrediKanoute wrote: |
| We tipped our kids instructors. Not a huge amount, maybe €30 per child (3 kids). To me its a way of saying thanks they had a great time and want to come back next year! |
Blimey a €90 tip; that’s generous!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The best tip I got was 120 euro.
Group of 4 - 7 yr olds.
One of them bit me and wet herself so think I earnt it that week!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@willski17, the glamorous life of a ski instructor eh! 
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Never even thought about it (and I am an over-generous tipper in restaurants, taxis etc). However, I have bought the excellent Pierre Antonioli in Arosa several beers over many years of instruction/guiding! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Isn't that already in your Ts&Cs?
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seriously considering it !!
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| rdk wrote: |
| If you feel you need to tip the person teaching your kids to ski, why not also tip the person who teaches your kids to read, write, do maths? Sounds ridiculous right? - well so is the tipping culture already. |
^^This. I've never understood why it's considered necessary to tip some occupations but not others. Why tip a taxi driver and not a bus driver (when the latter almost certainly earns less)? Why tip a waiter but not someone in a fast food place (when they're essentially just both taking an order and bringing you food that someone else cooked)?
I never buy the 'they don't earn much' argument either, why should I supplement the wages they receive from their shithouse of a boss that doesn't pay people fairly? And in Canada I just find the system crazy, you're not tipping because of good service but for fear of getting bad service. For a nation that seems so polite that is messed up, especially when you end up tipping some bartender that pours 3/4 a pint of lager and 1/4 pint of head.
All that said...I will still tip people for good service and feel it's only right to buy instructors a drink or the like. But there's no expectation of that, which is what I think gets my back up.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think it costs 100 bux here 1 hour, dont think anyone tip.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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No
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I bought Rob@Rar a bottle of limoncello once...
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I can't say I've ever even heard of or though of tipping an instructor, particularly in Europe where the tipping culture is not as pervasive. Last month while in France, we offered our instructor lunch with us but tipping would seek awkward or just inappropriate. This feels particularly the case when it feels like you establish a great relationship with the instructor. I don't know. Never thought of it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| SnoodlesMcFlude wrote: |
| .... And in Canada I just find the system crazy, you're not tipping because of good service but for fear of getting bad service. For a nation that seems so polite that is messed up, especially when you end up tipping some bartender that pours 3/4 a pint of lager and 1/4 pint of head. All that said...I will still tip people for good service and feel it's only right to buy instructors a drink or the like. But there's no expectation of that, which is what I think gets my back up. |
I think it's a cultural thing. In my view the more you whine, the more you're failing to take into account the culture you're visiting.
Absolutely that's your right, but you may be less righteous about it if the cash flow was in the other direction.
As an Anglo Saxon I like to see the price I pay on the label - indeed, we have EU laws which make sure that's the case.
On the other hand, I'm not daft enough to expect the rest of the world to adjust to what I'm used to.
Visitors do not tip "for fear of getting bad service" because by the time the tip is due the service was already provided.
If you're a local then you'd be going back, so perhaps you'd want to tip... but if you were a local you'd not be whining about the fact that things are cheaper because tipping is expected.
I think the tipping culture may actually take some hits with contactless payments. The last few weeks in Canada I didn't use cash at all... including for minor purchases like coffee. That makes people less likely to toss the change in whatever container they have for the purpose. On many occasions there's a tip option on the card machine, but not always. Overall I think that cashless will drive away from tipping.
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As to uk tipping culture - where taxi drivers are tipped and bus drivers aren't, I'd guess that it's probably because if you can afford a cab then you can afford the tip, but if you're assuming there's hard logic in culture then you're missing a bigger issue.
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