 Poster: A snowHead
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| olderscot wrote: |
| Public justification is very different from actual cause. There are plenty of reasons World War II happened but 'Living space' is not one that anyone (or so I thought) took seriously. |
ok, lets assume all the academic references to it are wrong, do you really think that with 10bn people in the world and less available food, we will not see increased mass migration and wars?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ok, lets assume all the academic references to it are wrong
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References to it as public justification are very different to it being an actual cause. You're welcome to read around a bit about the causes of WW2 but we both know what you're going to find. They are many and varied but 'living space' is certainly not a major one if anything at all to do with it.
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do you really think that with 10bn people in the world and less available food, we will not see increased mass migration and wars?
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You may be right on this. Hopefully not but you never know. That still doesn't excuse you for making a false statement about the cause of WW2 as part of your reasoning.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| olderscot wrote: |
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ok, lets assume all the academic references to it are wrong
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References to it as public justification are very different to it being an actual cause. You're welcome to read around a bit about the causes of WW2 but we both know what you're going to find. They are many and varied but 'living space' is certainly not a major one if anything at all to do with it.
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do you really think that with 10bn people in the world and less available food, we will not see increased mass migration and wars?
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You may be right on this. Hopefully not but you never know. That still doesn't excuse you for making a false statement about the cause of WW2 as part of your reasoning. |
can't be arsed debating this when the main issue was about my fears for the future.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Fair enough.
I can understand your concern about massive shifts in global politics and future events but I'm also hopeful about the potential for technology to mitigate much of these. If we can ever achieve the promise of cheap, clean energy on a massive scale then that offers a tremendous opportunity for transforming agriculture and improving living conditions and job opportunities around the world.
What we also have to hope though is that climate change doesn't mess everything up by making global weather conditions unstable. That could really mess up agriculture and make parts of world uninhabitable.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| olderscot wrote: |
Fair enough.
I can understand your concern about massive shifts in global politics and future events but I'm also hopeful about the potential for technology to mitigate much of these. If we can ever achieve the promise of cheap, clean energy on a massive scale then that offers a tremendous opportunity for transforming agriculture and improving living conditions around the world.
What we also have to hope though is that climate change doesn't mess everything up by making global weather conditions unstable. That could really mess up agriculture and make parts of world uninhabitable. |
my hope for this area is that we find draught / flood resistant strains of crops, basically hardier varieties than we have now so it can survive the changing climate, and also that we find a way to desalinate seawater cheaply and effectively so we can get water to those places that need it, not just for crops but for drinking too.
Having said all that, as a world we really need to address population growth; with medical science improving and people living longer, the population has to be controlled somehow.
I read somewhere recently that the first person who will live to 150 has already been born. Its clearly not me  but people are living longer, diseases are being cured, but we have a finite planet..... unless we find an alternative one and jump ship.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Having said all that, as a world we really need to address population growth; with medical science improving and people living longer, the population has to be controlled somehow.
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That's less of a concern for me. Yes, we are living longer but not by much and the population impact of that based on current projections isn't so bad.
Yes, there is a lot of population growth in developing countries as living standards improve and more children survive into adulthood than did previously but that's a good thing and historically the growth numbers tend to drop off as prosperity increases and people realise most of their kids aren't going to die.
So, on balance I have to admit that while there will be an increase in costs and hardship for developed countries I can't say I really think we're in a position to start telling developing countries they need to do more to control their population growth.
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@Sack the Juggler, I think the active and important element there is "ideological".
Just as with Brexit, jingoistic & populist threats resonate robustly when populations feel threatened, whether those cited causes of threat are real or not. (e.g. in the round, immigration is an economic good, not a threat).
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Sack the Juggler, I think the active and important element there is "ideological".
Just as with Brexit, jingoistic & populist threats resonate robustly when populations feel threatened, whether those cited causes of threat are real or not. (e.g. in the round, immigration is an economic good, not a threat). |
its an ideology he started with Mein Kampf (although possibly before this) and it was a plan to Germanise the world, by eliminating inferior races and replacing them with the growing german population. He gave medals to german mothers who produced 5 or more children, he wanted to fill that land.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Oh FFS. One minute you're only concerned about the future and the next you're back still trying to link WW2 and population growth.
Yes, Hitler was an egotistical, rascist maniac who wanted to build a massive German empire and conquer the world. It really had very little to with population growth as you seem to keep trying to allude to.
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| olderscot wrote: |
| Public justification is very different from actual cause. There are plenty of reasons World War II happened but 'Living space' is not one that anyone (or so I thought) took seriously. |
Not to derail the thread more than it already has, but Lebensraum was a serious reason for the war. It was most definitely one of two primary reasons for the launch of Operation Barbarossa along with the fear of the buildup of a communist superpower.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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but Lebensraum was a serious reason for the war
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Only really if you accept that 'Lebensraum' was really an idealogical pretext for building a massive German empire and populating that empire with the superior german race. It had very little to do with actual population growth in Germany and the need for living space.
I'm not trying to downplay the ideology of 'lebensraum' at the time, which was used by the Nazis as a philosophy that a country needed to build and colonise an empire in order to be strong and ensure it's survival. But that's a very different thing than claiming that the world went to war for 'living space' in the middle of a post about population growth.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| olderscot wrote: |
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but Lebensraum was a serious reason for the war
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Only really if you accept that 'Lebensraum' was really an idealogical pretext for building a massive German empire and populating that empire with the superior german race. It had very little to do with actual population growth in Germany and the need for living space.
I'm not trying to downplay the ideology of 'lebensraum' at the time, which was used by the Nazis as a philosophy that a country needed to build and colonise an empire in order to be strong and ensure it's survival. But that's a very different thing than claiming that the world went to war for 'living space' in the middle of a post about population growth. |
Ah I see, I agree
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