 Poster: A snowHead
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@Arctic Roll, Yes, but that isn't the title of the post.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@johnE, Fair point, well made - but it isn't a binary decision, hence my reminder of a third credible transport method.
FWIW, I flew last week, with 2 of us, but could well be driving at Easter: gives us the flexibility to visit the whole Tarantaise.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Arctic Roll, Unless you live close to Ashford or St Pancras then I really don't think the train is a sensible option. Inconvenient and tends to be very expensive.
Re: driving. In my experience it tends to work out much more expensive than one imagines at first glance. People often ignore the extra costs. E.g. Tyres can cost you £26 alone for a trip like that. Also, maybe 20% of a service. Maybe you play it safe and buy some chains. That's an extra £40-£200.
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We drive - 1hr from London to the Chunnel and then 7.5hrs to Samoens or Chamonix. We like taking our own skis and boots, and also with a 6yrs old and a 3yrs old there plenty of other stuff. We packed proper hiking gear for example, knowing there will be little snow, so we may go exploring around Sixt-Fer Chaval.
Taking the plane - wake up at stupid o'clock, drive to Gatwick or Heathrow or if lucky City. Pay stupid amount of money for a week's parking. Mix up with the great unwashed taking their holidays in the sun in the terminal. Pay the airline stupid amount of money for the ski gear. Fly. Come on the other side and pray your skis are there too. Go to the rent-a-car desk. Play the "what shitty eurobox have they got for me today" lottery. Faff with getting the ski rack on, which has cost you in extra charges the equivalent of the GDP of a small country somewhere in Africa. Get driving, realise that if you like cars, nothing is better than your own car. Arrive at resort. And exhale...
Did I say that easyJet was the cheapest option to fly to Geneva - 26th Dec - 2nd Jan and was £1250 by the time baggage and ski gear was added in. Rent-a-car was extra...
Before the kids were born we used to do up to 40days a year of skiing out of London. Driving would be only for 10 of them tops, rest were weekends when flying makes much more sense...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've been looking lately at doing a DIY ski trip and driving.
We live 30 miles from the tunnel, 45 mins from Gatwick and there are only two of us.
After looking at fuel, tunnel and tolls driving worked out about £100 cheaper than booking our own flights. However, one has to factor in the 10-16 hours worth of driving. For me, starting a holiday with that isn't that appealing.
I do enjoy driving in France, more so than the UK. Especially on a Sunday with no big trucks on the road. But I'd rather put my feet up and relax.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Has anybody bothered to track their true marginal cost of driving to skiing? (I.e. Including amortising the fixed elements like snow tyres and chains and euro breakdown over the number of journeys to which they apply). The 40-45p HMRC mileage rate reflects amortising total motoring costs over the average mileage so I think is unfairly high (VED, insurance etc would all still be paid whether you went skiing or not), but clearly using just the fuel costs is like the man-maths that justifies my 5 pairs of skis.
I remember when I got my first car I calculated that for 500mile climbing weekends to Scotland it was far better to rent a car and put the wear and tear on that.
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@snowdave, we are drifting off topic a bit but a car is a fast depreciating asset & deprecates even if it sits doing nothing, lease company usually charge 8ppm for miles over contract, the HMRC figure account for fule & we have accounted for that already.
I am fortunate in that I get a car allowance that lets me get a new car every 2 years so I don't need to worry about service or break down & I only do 5000 domestic miles PA
If you are a family then I think it comes more down to choices than cost.
I drive from Scotland so have a longer journey than most but I drive it 3 times a year for family holidays, xmas/ny, Easter & summer, I fly for mates weekends away but if I was based within an hour of tunnel I would drive again.
ULTIMATELY for me it comes down to the fact that I get travel sickness on planes & if I can avoid them I will.
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@snowdave, Yes you are correct the actual cost of using a car is hard to caculate. There are the fixed costs such as insurance, insurance and as @Jonny996, points out the large one is depreciation that are there whether you use the car or not and these get less the older the car gets. fuel is an easy one to calculate and once you get to decent milages the main one of the milaeage related costs. IIRC the likes of Parkers take 5p per mile for depreciation but once you get above 100,000 miles even that becomes very variable. Using variable servicing intervals such as that used by VAG the service charge per mile is small for the long gentle drive down the autoroute compared to the cost of going down to the shops in the UK.
The HMRC rates only apply for small business milages and are just a stab (most of it is depreciation). In my opinion it is very generous. The 8ppm @Jonny996, quotes is probably more accurate for higher milages. It appears that those people given company cars have this rate subsidised by the tax payer making driving much more attractive. Perhaps we should complain to the tax payers alliance about this subsidy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| cheburator wrote: |
| Pay stupid amount of money for a week's parking. |
I'm paying £35.50 for 8 nights' parking at the beginning of January. Not really a "stupid amount of money."
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@snowdave +1 I value my time too much to drive and I can think of few things worse than driving all the way to the alps. (I don't watch adverts either.)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I love these threads. People pretty much arguing about why they do things their way ignoring the obvious that it is works for them and everyone or indeed every trip is different.
Anyway just my tuppence worth. Biggest single advantage in driving for me is the ability to ski 8 days as oppose to usually 6 when flying. With all other costs being equal those two days are just the cost of the lift pass and therefore a big brucie bonus. Second, is that for me flying used to be quite good fun but now it's no more of a novelty than any other form of transport. I get more excited getting a double decker bus these days as I use those so rarely. On top of which flying for me has become an very tedious experience. So personally I find the drive more enjoyable.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Horses for courses, each to their own etc etc.
We usually fly but have driven a couple of times (each) to both the French and Austrian Alps. As others have said, the key point is how close you live to the Channel. For us, a third of the overall driving on the trip is spent in the UK.
Once we reach France it always feels like the driving shackles are off! 
Although we did do a mad drive (from the north east) to Neustift in Austria a few years ago (when we drove 2000 miles return and went for 2 nights...), in recent years we have gone for 2 or 3 weeks to the Alps, breaking the journey and sight seeing en route. That approach has been great, has felt less onerous and we've seen some excellent WW1 sites in France on the way (in the Somme area and in Champagne), as well as some lovely towns, like Beaune, Arras and Troyes.
For our next trip (next week) we are using our Avios on flights to Geneva, for 3 weeks in the 3 Valleys. Hopefully the big storm will arrive when we are there! Fingers crossed!
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| Quote: |
I get more excited getting a double decker bus these days
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Calm down @Layne The top deck may prove just a bit too exciting
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You know it makes sense.
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| Bergmeister wrote: |
Horses for courses, each to their own etc etc.
We usually fly but have driven a couple of times (each) to both the French and Austrian Alps. As others have said, the key point is how close you live to the Channel. For us, a third of the overall driving on the trip is spent in the UK.
Once we reach France it always feels like the driving shackles are off!
Although we did do a mad drive (from the north east) to Neustift in Austria a few years ago (when we drove 2000 miles return and went for 2 nights...), in recent years we have gone for 2 or 3 weeks to the Alps, breaking the journey and sight seeing en route. That approach has been great, has felt less onerous and we've seen some excellent WW1 sites in France on the way (in the Somme area and in Champagne), as well as some lovely towns, like Beaune, Arras and Troyes.
For our next trip (next week) we are using our Avios on flights to Geneva, for 3 weeks in the 3 Valleys. Hopefully the big storm will arrive when we are there! Fingers crossed! |
Driving for a 3 wk holiday makes sense, particularly in convenience for carting gear and transport whilst there. Driving 2000 miles for a 2 night break does seem a bit bonkers prima facie, but I'm sure you had your reasons, you have less flight choice from North east; convenience of a choice of airports within 45 mins drive does generally make it hard to argue against flying when south east based.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Totally agree with people saying it depends on a few variables.
If it's just the two of us we are paying for, and its during term time, then we fly.
However, throw my 2 stepkids into the mix, and having to go in school holidays, well driving is the obvious choice - total flights & transfers in Feb half term were minimum £1,800 (and that's before we've paid for accommodation!), we can drive to Les Arcs for around £400. That includes return ferry to Calais & a family room in the Premier Inn by Dover Docks on the Friday night so we are up and on the 06:30 ferry.
For us this means we have been able to upgrade our resort and stay in a superior appt in Arc 1950, and still do the whole trip for under £2k.
I know we are lucky though, in that I have a biggish company car so no 'wear & tear' concerns, or international recovery etc to worry about...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| cheburator wrote: |
Taking the plane - wake up at stupid o'clock, drive to Gatwick or Heathrow or if lucky City. Pay stupid amount of money for a week's parking. |
Some airport hotels offer a week's parking if you stay a night. Arrive when you like, relax, leisurely start with nice breakfast, free shuttle to terminal.
| cheburator wrote: |
Mix up with the great unwashed taking their holidays in the sun in the terminal. Pay the airline stupid amount of money for the ski gear. |
A gold card sorts that out - fast track, lounge, extra baggage.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The tone of the OP suggests that anyone who chooses to fly is in the wrong. Travelling alone or in a pair, for one week or less, this is rarely the case. Flights can be extremely cheap, I've never paid more than £180, airport parking between £20 and £40, travel time less than 8 hours, and can be less than 6 hours. Horses for courses.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If booked in advance the premier inn at Heathrow with meet and greet parking at the terminal is cheaper than Heathrow own meet and great and only slightly offer than off site parking and bus transfer.
With regards to the eight days skiing surely this only works if you drive through the night or leave the day before and stay in Europe not far from resort. I can't see how I could leave on Saturday morning and still be home Sunday night ready for work/school on Monday morning.
We used to leave Aveimore Sunday evening, drive through the night arriving home (after dropping off everyone and kit and returning the bus) at about 4am then go to lectures at 9!! Those days are long gone!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@TommyJ A few years ago I was really impressed with my university mountaineering club. Their plan was to drive overnight after lectures on Thursday, arrive Chamonix on Friday morning, ascend to a suitable hut on the Friday (I cannot recall which one), summit bid on Saturday and return overnight Sunday night ready for lectures on Monday. With 12 of them crammed into a transit mini bus it was very cheep. An impressive plan, but at the end of October they hadn't banked on waist high powder snow and never even made it to the hut. A bold bid indeed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| TommyJ wrote: |
| With regards to the eight days skiing surely this only works if you drive through the night. |
Correct it only works if you drive through the night. Some people don't wish to do this, in which case one of the main reasons for driving is lost. With at least two drivers it's no big deal IMO. Swap over every couple of hours and it's not too tiring. There is no traffic to speak of so the driving is easy and quick. It's not for everyone but what is. But 8 days instead of 6 is a big draw - especially given Saturdays are often quiet and so a great day to ski.
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Perfectly easy to do 7.5/8 days skiing by plane - I've done it a few times in Morzine. Fly out early Sat/dump bags/hit snow, then ski all day following Sat/late transfer bus/airport hotel/fly back Sun.
Yes, you need to live near an airport - but then driving only really works for this if you live in the south and don't have 8hrs driving to get to the channel.
Yes, you need to get up at they-have-one-of-these-in-the-morning-too?!? o'clock for an early flight - but at least you've had some sleep, not been driving all night.
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@Mjit, I can even make it 9 days by doing the 7pm fri flight out and the 8-9pm sun flight home  To top it all, I even get to sleep in a bed every night rather than the passenger seat of a car!
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@snowdave, yep, I've done the same. Flights aren't limited to Sat-Sat trips 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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You can't do 8 days with TO's when flying.
No reason why not for DIYers.
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Done 8 days by train a few times as well. Waterloo to Bourg.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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living in the north the last few years have driven to hull , overnight north sea to rotterdam then 10 hrs ish to austria leave work /home a bit early get to ferry before 6.30pm , having paid extra for early boarding/ disembarkation off at 8.30 in resort in good time for late apres ski /dinner. We can if snow good add an extra couple of days at either end as ferry prices dont alter much at that time of year wether booked a few days in advance or not.
We can then stay in same or different resort booking main block for a minimum of 5 days , first week of march its easier to find hotel and to drive i.e all in daylight we try to avoid driving on fridays or saturdays , have done hook harwich on return but outward times dont work in our favour on return leg later check in earlier disembark but longer uk drive home but still got home same time,dover route just doesnt work for us as too many hold ups down south and not such an easy mw drive to austria and if only driving a couple of hours in uk not tired on way down, coming home depends on quality of skiing wether leaving early am or afterskiing but then that means another stopover and much depends on day of travel, I work my costs out on a /day skiing just to show you can prove anything with statistics, each to their own
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ski for fun,
Wow! I'm out of breath reading that. A sentence with 160 words in it! 
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@Bergmeister, Obviously @ski for fun, in a pen name for Franz Kafka.
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You know it makes sense.
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This year I flew instead of driving for the first time ever (for a winter holiday). 10:50am flight of Southend. Fog finally cancelled the flight at 15:00pm. By 16:30pm I had a flight re-booked and awaiting a taxi. By 19:00pm taxi appeared and drove my family the 304 miles to Newcastle arriving 12:00am for a 06:50am flight the following day.... to be fair Easyjet stumped the £700+ taxi fare and the hotel for 4 hours. I still have to claim for my missed private transfer (which will be a bonus if I get re-imbursed) but I wont fly again
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@andrew e, It sounds as it was very lucky you flew that time. Why did Easyjet put you in a taxi to Newcastle couldn't they just have sent the taxi the other way to the Alps?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I enjoy driving and I don't enjoy waiting around. We fly at Christmas as MIL buys the tickets and I hate it even though it is 4 hours less door to door so many hours are wasted being early just in case and factoring in public transport delays etc. In my car at least the time spent is productive.
We drive with 3 drivers, leave about 10am and arrive about midnight, ski the next day. If we fly we set off at 3am for an approx 6am flight and get to resort about 3pm after a train and a bus, ski the next day. The skiing time difference is non existent. We shop in resort if we fly but arrive with a stocked up car when we drive.
I think with 3 people it is about cost neutral either way, I'd just rather spend my time sat on my own heated seat with control of my own stereo than on mass public transport I suppose...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@mollerski summed it up for me. We are a family of six with a big car and roof box so the maths are simple - and i love the drive. However; life is rarely perfect and this half term we are flying to Ischgl because it was my wife and i, with the two youngest then amazingly eldest daughter decided on a gap year and uni son says he has no practicals that week and might be able to make it too.
Guess who has to stump up for the flights
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We have tried flying, train and driving over the years.
On our way back from Les Arcs on New Year's Eve by car we encountered a lot of fog and I wondered if we would have been better off flying or taking the train. In the end I concluded not as we noticed the Eurostar was not there when we passed Bourg on the morning of Saturday 31st - technical issue? Not good to see the train missing on one of the busiest changeovers of the season. If anything goes wrong with the one train the alternatives are not tempting. There was also bad fog as we passed Geneva so I assume if we'd flown we would have had a delayed or cancelled flight.
Furthermore I could not imagine doing Christmas week by any form of transport other than car as we could not possibly have boarded a train or plane with the amount of stuff we took with us - skis, boots and helmets for a family of four, four suitcases, Christmas presents, a few Christmas decorations and food. We skied for 8 days (including 1 in a different resort which is much easier to do with transport).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'd love to drive again, I probably will one day but at the moment I'm fairly content to fly. I'm usually happy flying until the morning you have to get up at the crack of dawn to get a coach to some godforsaken little airport 2 hours earlier than you need to and then spend hours waiting around sat on plastic chairs with a bunch of strangers. It's about then I vow to drive next year!!
When I get round to driving I'll try and make it a bit of an adventure, I'd love to do it in a totally inappropriate vehicle like a Lotus Elise or similar. Can anyone remember an article in Classic and Sports Car when two guys drove to their skiing holiday in a Caterham 7?!
The last and only time I drove it was to Italy in my Lancia Delta Integrale which was fantastic. I bet when I finally get round to doing it again it will be in something really boring!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
When I get round to driving I'll try and make it a bit of an adventure, I'd love to do it in a totally inappropriate vehicle like a Lotus Elise or similar.
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I could not work out how to strap my skis to my motorbike (an A65). I suppose with a Caterham 7 you can strap them to the running boards (I assume cars still have running boards)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I drove up to Lake Tahoe in a rwd Chrysler Lebaron convertible in a fecking blizzard. It was Easter and I wasn't going skiing. Never been so relieved to arrive somewhere safely. We did go snow mobiling so took advantage of the unexpected late snow.
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@lampygirl, How do you manage to use your driving time productively? Berlitz 'teach yourself Albanian' on the stereo?
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@foxtrotzulu, I download moreorless and inourtime podcasts and of course got through andrew marr's history of the world and silk roads, not to mention lots of novels, but they are just entertainment.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
When I get round to driving I'll try and make it a bit of an adventure, I'd love to do it in a totally inappropriate vehicle like a Lotus Elise or similar.
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I could not work out how to strap my skis to my motorbike (an A65). I suppose with a Caterham 7 you can strap them to the running boards (I assume cars still have running boards) |
I seem to remember the skis were strapped across from the top of the screen to the roll bar. I'll see if I can find the article!
An A65 would be a step too far I think. My B40 would be even worse though, 55 flat out would be interesting for a 2000 mile round trip!
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@japes1275, The A65 carted me around Europe, climbing in the Dolomites etc. The gearlever fell of in Yugoslavia once and I rode all the way back with a mole wrench clamped arounf the shaft and some wire leading up to the thumb of my right hand for upchanges.
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FAQ
