I don't think that I do when I speak to people, I'm generally quite self-deprecating anyway and will say I'm okay but ambitious/stupid...in my head though, I'm the best skier on the mountain and could easily be pulling front flips and doing crazy off-piste.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
philwig wrote:
... Blokes almost always exaggerate their ability; women mostly don't and may be over modest.
The people who ski with Inside Out are generally fairly accurate about the abilities, both men and women. Some overestimate their ability, usually conflating the steepness of the terrain they can get down with their skill level, but most people who come to us for lessons have a good idea of their level.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@rob@rar, that speaks (positively) more for your kind of clients than anything else - non?
Many, many years ago while but a still more callow youth, I asked a BASI trainer for a pre-interview reference for said hosting job. I asked for something like an "expert" rating from him, (oh, the shame )
He said I was "~ broadly competent", which in review, was generous.
I didn't start skiing until I was 35 but these days I tend to do full seasons. I'm pretty competent i.e. ski all pisted runs in all conditions, enter the odd amature race, do some smaller jumps in the park and when freeriding and spend as much time off piste as I can, but when I ski with intructors and racers I truly see the vast gulf that that level of training and commitment puts between those who do it and those who don't. However, I still practice drills a lot and take lessons and hints when I can so am gradually improving more each year
@rob@rar, that speaks (positively) more for your kind of clients than anything else - non?
I suspect that the description/criteria for each level goes a long way. If you just describe it as 'advanced intermediate' then loads of people will assume that's them, but if you have 'level 6 - capable of....' then it gets a bit more tricky to bull**** your way through.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I find it strange that anyone would expect performance ability in almost any activity to correlate with time spent doing it. I know people who have spent loads of time cooking, for example, but are nothing like as good as someone relatively new to it who has set out consciously to learn and improve.
I've been swimming since I was little, and have swum a lot but I'm fairly crap at it, all the same. But I became competent quite quickly at sailing when I first started because I concentrated on it and was always learning. Since those early years I've sailed off and on (4 to 6 weeks a year in last few years) but am probably less able now because I've stopped trying so hard and sail with a very experienced skipper so I get lazy. Enjoy it in a different way. And don't race, so finer points of sail trim go out the window in favour of sitting with a hot cup of tea and contemplating the waves.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
I concentrated on it and was always learning
We have, I am sure, had this conscious competence etc., conversation before, non?
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 21-12-16 8:35; edited 1 time in total
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@pam w, +1
I retaught myself/been coached to swim over the last couple of years, as I realised how much technique I didn't have. But I applied what I had, conscientiously, and this summer completed the Dart 10k in a time that was shorter than I'd expected - although actually the time wasn't so important as having appreciated some beautiful scenery and completed the swim without even feeling all that tired.
Back to skiing/boarding, I remember how much I rated myself as a boarder early on, once I'd got a couple of two-week seasons under my belt. Now with the benefit of some years and a bit of perspective I'd say I was and still am 'fairly competent' at best, a one-week/year punter. I occasionally challenge myself, either by going with people who are manifestly 'better' skiers than me (faster doesn't always mean better, but in this case they are both), riding switch for extended periods, doing a mogul field just to remind myself why I don't like them, etc.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:
doing a mogul field just to remind myself why I don't like them
He he he - "it's not that you can't ski moguls, but that you can't ski and moguls are nature's way of telling you..."
In fairness, moguls are not what they were in my day.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
They say those who succeed and get to the top of their game manage it because of time spent practising.."10000 hours" being the oft quoted figure. Natural ability is not enough...
Mr P and I are lucky, and manage about 28-30 days a season.
I think the better a skier you actually are, the more you realise how cr*p your really are. We are still trying to improve despite being in our 50s, but I didn't start skiing until I was 26, and by the time I was 40 had only been on 11 skiing holidays. Since a season in the 3v, it has become an obsession. Mark Jones said to us last season (during a 4 weeks course with ICE in Val d'isere).."skiing is not a holiday, it is now your sport".
Then I look at my younger stepson who is now instructing in Zermatt. 11 years ago, while I was doing my ski seaso, his dad describes SSon blubbing at the top of a black run in Megeve aged 10. Aged 21 he's instructing and competing in the lower level Freeride WT..
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
under a new name wrote:
In fairness, moguls are not what they were in my day.
Different in what way?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Themasterpiece, by "my day" I mean circa 1990 (I also don't mean competition lines, which don't look as though they've changed so much)
- skis were generally longer and straighter - and both more difficult to turn and used a slightly different technique
- pistes weren't pisted so aggressively
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
compostcorner wrote:
...i consider myself a holiday skier, i want to just cruise around the mountains taking in the scenery, stopping for drinks, i dont want to go down mountains that are to steep for me, its just to much like hard work, and i want to enjoy my holiday, i guess i"m on the so called intermediate plateau, and thats good enough for me to enjoy a skiing holiday
Brilliant.
And isn't it wonderful that with modern equipment and lift infrastructure a 1-week a season skier can enjoy so much of what the mountains have to offer.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Themasterpiece wrote:
under a new name wrote:
In fairness, moguls are not what they were in my day.
Different in what way?
There aren't any!!!!
I started in 1986 when significant moguls could be found on blue runs and would not be pisted flat for the whole week, reds and blacks were usually moguls from top to bottom, some of them as big as cars.
If the term "Very difficult" is the way of grading a black run according to say, pre 1990 standards, then there are virtually NO truly black runs in resorts these days as the intermediate masses insist that the black runs are made easy enough to be skied by intermediates by pisteing them flat. OR from another perspective, the resorts don't attract enough expert skiers that enjoy the challenge of moguls to have a significant amount of their pistes unusable by the majority of their clients.
(Dons helmet and flak jacket and hides )
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Mike Pow, +1
Skiing is primarily a social activity isn't it?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@tangowaggon, you clearly don't ski up the Grands Montets much?
But seriously, you are quite correct. The challenge for bumps skiing these days is finding any bumps
@tangowaggon, you clearly don't ski up the Grands Montets much?
Or Tortin, Mont Fort, etc, in Verbier. Moguls that look like VW Beetles.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
under a new name wrote:
@tangowaggon, you clearly don't ski up the Grands Montets much?
But seriously, you are quite correct. The challenge for bumps skiing these days is finding any bumps
or top bin at brevent.
Generally when ever people describe themselves as advanced I don't believe them until I see it with my own eyes. After 7 straight seasons i'd still only say I was intermediate and still have a number of friends that I struggle to keep up with.
@WindOfChange, re Derby de Chavanette - do you mean "enter and finish" (which I don't think requires a great deal of skill having just watched vid from 2010) or "be competitive in" which other than a lot of strength and stamina probably does require some skill (though a couple of them were just straight lining )
I first witnessed this in 1988-89, as a piste-side spectator, and was blown away as to how good those guys were.
Since then I have done 13 seasons, and my skiing and boarding has coma along way.
But to be competitive in you need be be around 52-60 seconds.
Obviously the conditions ( snow, moguls, visibility, other users ) play a big part in this but a few years back an instructor from ESF Avoriaz and I timed our descent. I do not know to what degree he was holding back, but we were well outside this ( and I pretty much schussed the bottom half ).
I don't think you need to be Edgar Grospiron ( or even Ben cavet) , but if you can do it in sub 75 seconds, then you rock !
__ NOTE __
I was young and foolish when I did this.
This is a tricky slope at the best of times.
I do not endorse racing on public pistes, unless the piste is officially closed, and the event is organised by a 3rd party sanctioned by one of the sports governing bodies.
FFS - Be careful
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@under a new name, I'll second that. The only place I know to find them reliably is some areas off the sides off the piste which are left to be formed.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
If the term "Very difficult" is the way of grading a black run according to say, pre 1990 standards, then there are virtually NO truly black runs in resorts these days as the intermediate masses insist that the black runs are made easy enough to be skied by intermediates by pisteing them flat. OR from another perspective, the resorts don't attract enough expert skiers that enjoy the challenge of moguls to have a significant amount of their pistes unusable by the majority of their clients.
@tangowaggon, May I suggest you get out to Les Arcs a bit more. Malgovert and Claire Blanc are only red, but can have some serious bumps. Almost all the black runs are Natur ie never pisted. The one exception to this being Comborciere, which IIRC was once pisted 5 or 6 years ago (and I mean once at the start of the season) and now is always a 2km long bump fest. Some of the old blacks, such as Reches are now marked as reds (Rouelles, however, has gone from red to black). It could, in a quiet way, explain why Les Arcs is the most posted about resort on this forum.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Was it actually run 88-89? that was my first season and I'm sure I'd have noticed and remembered (although saying that, it would I guess have been a Saturday and I'd have been on and off buses to the airport and back).
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
philwig wrote:
Blokes almost always exaggerate their ability; women mostly don't and may be over modest.
For several years I used to organise race crew on (someone else's) 38 footer and found exactly the opposite. It was women who were most likely to exaggerate their experience. This became immediately obvious once they were on the boat.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Yeah, it was my first season too. ( Morgins )
One of the local instructors Joel Rey Mermet (who owned the Savolaire bar) from ESS Morgins came third, and won a portable TV.
Although that vid from 2010 shows an organised start at a slightly easier point on the RHS.
It is a long time again now, bit IIRC they jut went from the top then, and the first 3rd of the descent was way too bumpy to straight line.
The moguls seemed properly big back then.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@WindOfChange, fair enough, I bow to your superior memory
The moguls would almost certainly have been bigger. And meaner.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I just found an article is Le Messager.
1989 was in fact the first year, and the reason I was so blown away is that the winner did it in 37 seconds compared to the winner in 2010, who did it in 52 seconds presumably using better kit.
i recently had a customer in the shop (mid-late 50's) who, when asked if he really preferred steep black bumps runs to anywhere else on the mountain proclaimed... where i ski not many people ski better than me, and those who do don't speak english!
Now granted that is a bit of a brassy thing to say but depending on where he skis, is that such a big claim? I suppose it depends what he meant by "many" too. I've learned an awful lot over the years by watching better skiers so I am always looking for people from the chair lift to learn from or to illustrate some aspect of good skiing to my kids. Often feels like looking for needles in a haystack. Unless we are over the race courses when they are in use when we will often see teenage locals who are skiing MUCH better than anything else we get to watch. Away from the gates, even instructors spend so much time skiing within themselves with lower level groups that they don't often provide a lot to watch. I think in a lot of places you can ski better than 95% of people on the hill and still not be very good.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
I think in a lot of places you can ski better than 95% of people on the hill and still not be very good.
Thinking about it that is probably just consistent with what UANN was asking about whether a week of tennis a year would be enough to be good
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@WindOfChange,
That's fast.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
He he he - "it's not that you can't ski moguls, but that you can't ski and moguls are nature's way of telling you..."
Oh and that is so true!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
johnE wrote:
Quote:
If the term "Very difficult" is the way of grading a black run according to say, pre 1990 standards, then there are virtually NO truly black runs in resorts these days as the intermediate masses insist that the black runs are made easy enough to be skied by intermediates by pisteing them flat. OR from another perspective, the resorts don't attract enough expert skiers that enjoy the challenge of moguls to have a significant amount of their pistes unusable by the majority of their clients.
@tangowaggon, May I suggest you get out to Les Arcs a bit more. Malgovert and Claire Blanc are only red, but can have some serious bumps. Almost all the black runs are Natur ie never pisted. The one exception to this being Comborciere, which IIRC was once pisted 5 or 6 years ago (and I mean once at the start of the season) and now is always a 2km long bump fest. Some of the old blacks, such as Reches are now marked as reds (Rouelles, however, has gone from red to black). It could, in a quiet way, explain why Les Arcs is t
he most posted about resort on this forum.
That is why I like Les Arcs, I have spent about 4 weeks in Paradiski over the past three years. I doubt that anyone would want to go back to the way things were in the 80's, I find Paradiski a nice balance of truly challenging runs and well pisted areas where you can carve.
For me, who I ski with is more important than where I ski, so family trips to Grandvalira and snowheads bashes in the Sella Ronda have taken a lot of my ski time which has been thoroughly enjoyed but not because of the challenging ski runs
In summary - people who are bad at something tend to overestimate how good they are, people who are good at something underestimate themselves. In skiing I think this is particularly true as a lot of it is down to "feel" and it's hard to feel that you're doing something wrong if you don't know what it feels like to do it right.
At the end of my first ever week of skiing the instructor took me down a black run. At the time I thought that as I could ski a black run I must be a good skier. About 10 years and 25 week's of skiing later I now think I'm a fairly decent skier but I know I've got lots still to learn.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
tangowaggon wrote:
If the term "Very difficult" is the way of grading a black run according to say, pre 1990 standards, then there are virtually NO truly black runs in resorts these days as the intermediate masses insist that the black runs are made easy enough to be skied by intermediates by pisteing them flat. OR from another perspective, the resorts don't attract enough expert skiers that enjoy the challenge of moguls to have a significant amount of their pistes unusable by the majority of their clients.
(Dons helmet and flak jacket and hides )
Couple of days after a fresh snowfall I was skiing a pleasant blue run. Seeing a bit of a cat track roller I pull over to the side for a breather. Below the slope remained soft fluffy bumps. Cue a couple of blue run heroes skiing with more speed than grace or control over roller on their heels and complete carnage as they fail to handle the ungroomed ( which wasn't that hard). I contemplated standing there a while and videoing.
When I was learning to ski in Sweden in 1979 there were moguls on almost every red run and they were not unknown on blue runs. Then Swedish runs were graded higher than they would have been in the Alps or so I was told. It was just a question of coping with the bumps and I found I could cope if I concentrated on one turn at a time and kept the speed under control.
The theme of this thread has been to compare Skiing with tennis to take one example . I think it might be more sensible to compare skiing with cycling. Both are means of transport and although few will reach the competitive heights of Chris Hoy or Jason Kenny there millions of competent(good) cyclists. In the same way there are many competent skiers who will never challenge for Olympic medals. To me a competent(good) skier is someone who knows their limits and can ski down a slope under control and not causing risk to other skiers. I can call people I know good drivers not because they could challenge Lewis Hamilton but because they are safe road users
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Rabbie, I had also thought of the cycling analogy. Went on a bike a few years back after a long absence, bit wobbly for a bit, but didn't fall over. Have also in the past had a lengthy break from skiing, was pleased with how much feel I had on my first run. But was also a bit PO'd at my rustiness.
'Good' is (as has been said upthread) too abstract and too dependant on surroundings to be definitive of a certain level. Whatever rung you are on, others will be good, or fair, or advanced, or expert, or whatever.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Mountain biking is possibly the closest analogy to skiing, the road cycling that I do to get fit for skiing requires very little skill or confidence compared to skiing.
Skiing and mountain biking can be enjoyed at so many levels, purely recreational or competition.
Greatly simplifying things, there are three basic elements to every sport
Skill
Strength (I have lumped fitness, stamina etc under this for want of a better term)
Bottle! (Confidence)
Each sport requires a different ratio of each ie snooker is probably 95% skill, running is probably 90% strength, skiing requires similar proportions of all three. Though bottle should not be confused with stupidity, more like lack of phobia.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
jedster wrote:
@CEM,
Quote:
i recently had a customer in the shop (mid-late 50's) who, when asked if he really preferred steep black bumps runs to anywhere else on the mountain proclaimed... where i ski not many people ski better than me, and those who do don't speak english!
Now granted that is a bit of a brassy thing to say but depending on where he skis, is that such a big claim? I suppose it depends what he meant by "many" too. I've learned an awful lot over the years by watching better skiers so I am always looking for people from the chair lift to learn from or to illustrate some aspect of good skiing to my kids. Often feels like looking for needles in a haystack. Unless we are over the race courses when they are in use when we will often see teenage locals who are skiing MUCH better than anything else we get to watch. Away from the gates, even instructors spend so much time skiing within themselves with lower level groups that they don't often provide a lot to watch. I think in a lot of places you can ski better than 95% of people on the hill and still not be very good.
he skied in a large well known austrian resort (2-3 weeks a year) so i doubt he was even in the top 50% of people on the hill ...... believe me it was not brassy, it was an ego out of control (remember the guy was mid to late 50's), when i asked him to drive his knee forward and flex the boot he stood there and dropped his hip down and back, i sure fire test if someone can ski ( at all) is if they can flex a suitable boot for their skill level and body weight when all you can do is stick your butt out then we have a fair idea how you will be on the mountain
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@CEM, I will take care when I visit you next month!
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
)
)
