 Poster: A snowHead
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An email elicited a more helpful response. You can buy a ticket to the test centre separately, it's 59 CHF per person per day.
@mooney058, we are staying at the Aparthaus Theodul, it's down by the station. If you fancy meeting up PM me and we can exchange numbers etc.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It has been far too long since I have been to zermatt, but plans are in for February 2017. Any advice, suggestions, appreciated, both on the mountain and off. We are a family of three, have air bnb in zermatt already secured. I am strong skier on and off piste. Have started ski touring and may consider bringing AT setup along with regular downhill equipment. 13 yo daughter also a string skieer, she comes with me through the gates in USA but has not used AT gear yet. We hired a guide in st anton a few years ago to take us off piste and would like to do that again. Wife is blue/red skieer. Thoughts on guides? Strategies to ski to avoid crowds? Lunch huts not to be missed, etc. thanks for any help. Is a trip to cervinia a must? Getting excited as the leaves begin to turn in Boston.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Redwine, For you and your daughter you must make sure you do all the itineraries. They are the trails marked yellow on the piste map. They give you a lot of the fun of off piste without the need to hire a guide. When you are on them note that there is only a single pole which marks the centre of the area you should be skiing down. They need a lot of snow to open up. They are scheduled to open 22 January so hopefully will be open when you get there in February. They might be a bit tricky for your wife.
The "avoid the crowds" strategy used to be to ski Schwarzsee, the smallest of the four Swiss sectors. That was because once on it you could only get up and down on a T bar. But last year we got a new lift. However it is still relatively quiet. Other than that note that the ski schools mainly do Blauherd to Sunnegga and Gornergrat/Gifthittli to Riffelberg so they tend to be the busiest bits.
Yes going to Cervinia is a must. The skiing is less demanding than Zermatt so your wife will love it. But I still think it is exciting enough even for a good skier. But really it is the variety it gives you. It feels a very different ski area and the cultural contrast between the Swiss side and the Italian side is fantastic. The food is also great over that side (and much cheaper!). At least once you need to go right up to the top at Klein Matterhorn (which is actually on the Swiss side) and ski non-stop right down into Breuil-Cervinia. It is epic, you are dropping almost 2000m closer to sea level in one go.
I don't want to knock the southern end of the area, Valtournenche, as I love going over there. But it probably isn't a "must do". It is a long way to get over for someone based in Zermatt.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sun 23-10-16 21:56; edited 1 time in total
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| JohnMo wrote: |
At least once you need to go right up to the top at Klein Matterhorn (which is actually on the Swiss side) and ski non-stop right down into Breuil-Cervinia. It is epic, you are dropping almost 2000m closer to sea level in one go.
I don't want to knock the southern end of the area, Valtournenche, as I love going over there. But it probably isn't a "must do". It is a long way to get over for someone based in Zermatt. |
Did that run one evening after the lifts closed and as the light faded on the Matterhorn. Stunning. A great half hours skiing, one of the best runs of my life.
The ski down from the top lift in Zermatt to the bottom of Valt. is supposed to be one of the longest in Europe, but I couldn't do it without an annoying 100m button lift up. Always wondered was I missing something. A good long run too but prob not as nice as the other one.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| 8611 wrote: |
The ski down from the top lift in Zermatt to the bottom of Valt. is supposed to be one of the longest in Europe, but I couldn't do it without an annoying 100m button lift up. Always wondered was I missing something. A good long run too but prob not as nice as the other one. |
Yeah the Klein Matterhorn to Valtournenche run is often quoted as one of the longest around. But as you say it is not continuous. You weren't missing a "trick" It is a short chair lift that lifts you up into the Valtournenche bowl (the button lift is on the way back). I much prefer the run down to Breuil-Cervinia. When it is not busy, racing down there with your ears popping is something else.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Sadly the cold snap only lasted a week...
Temperatures at mid level (2720m) hitting 6'C towards the end of this week. Not ideal for that autumn base layer!
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| JohnMo wrote: |
| @Redwine, For you and your daughter you must make sure you do all the itineraries. They are the trails marked yellow on the piste map. They give you a lot of the fun of off piste without the need to hire a guide. When you are on them note that there is only a single pole which marks the centre of the area you should be skiing down. |
Could you explain the itineraries? I've been looking at the piste map in preparation for a trip and can't quite work out. It seems they're avalanche protected (good) but not patrolled (hmm). So if I fall over and break a leg am I officially "off piste"? Will someone come and get me? Only half joking, but I'm really wondering what they mean in practice.
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| rdk wrote: |
| Could you explain the itineraries? I've been looking at the piste map in preparation for a trip and can't quite work out. It seems they're avalanche protected (good) but not patrolled (hmm). So if I fall over and break a leg am I officially "off piste"? Will someone come and get me? Only half joking, but I'm really wondering what they mean in practice. |
Somebody with more technical knowledge of this subject might be able to answer this better than me but I will tell you what I think.
Swiss pistes are not “patrolled” in the sense that, for example, North American ones are so in some ways the itineraries are no different to pistes. As you say the itinerary runs are avalanche controlled and are well marked – but you need to make sure not to go “too far” either side of the markers as there is only one in the centre of the safe skiing area. If you fall and break your leg you are relying on a fellow skier or instructor to see you and call the rescue team. At the end of last season I was coming down Stockhorn (the biggest and most remote itinerary) on my own when I suddenly realised there was no-one else around. Despite being confident skiing there and having a fully charged mobile phone and wearing a transponder I must admit a wave of apprehension came over me – even knowing the area like the back of my hand I wouldn’t have knowingly put myself in that position.
There seems a lot of confusion as to whether you need off piste insurance to ski the itineraries – it always seems to be described as a “grey area”. I have off piste insurance so I have never investigated.
For those coming to Zermatt who are not certain of itineraries, here is a rough guide from right to left (in the Swiss area only – the Italian side does not have any):
67/68 – run down next to the piste. Nice and wide. Not a lot of cliff edges. Usually plenty of people around and from most places you can be seen from the piste. The best place to start.
59/60 – similar to 67/68 but a bit steeper and not as many people around and can’t be seen from the piste.
58 – known by my daughter as “death route” because I took her on it when her skiing was not really up to it. It starts off dead easy then gets steep then falls into the trees. I love it. Don’t do it unless you can handle really sharp turns or you have a desire to get very intimate with a tree trunk. Nowhere near a piste.
49 and 43 – just ways to get to restaurants or back to town but do them if you are passing by.
30 – getting into the real stuff now. Try this before you take the lifts over to Rote Nase and Stockhorn. If you enjoyed 67 and 68 you’ll probably enjoy this. But unless you are confident on this don’t try …
31/32/33/34 – heaven on earth in my opinion. I could spend a whole day playing over these routes. You get an ancient lift over there that only serves itineraries and not groomed pistes. Unless you know them don’t try to do them on a bad light day – it would be easy to stray off route (or just go off the edge of a rock drop!) and no-one is going to find you. On a clear day there should be enough other people around to make you feel not too nervous. If you go to Zermatt and are a reasonably competent and confident skier (and fit) it would be a real pity not to head over here. But do check whether your own insurance covers you.
10 – easy peasy lemon squeezy. But surprisingly nice run still. Another good one to try if you just want to find out if you can cope with itineraries.
16/17/18 – Great runs to do and often have unskied snow for several days after a dump but they do not get a lot of people on them so those of a nervous disposition might not like them. Can be very steep in parts and there are rocks a plenty. If you were fine on the Stockhorn sector you should try these ones as well. But it is much better to do with at least one other person (and stay in sight of each other) than on your own.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@johnmo and others. Thank you for the info. I had not realized what itineraries were even though I have seen them on the map. I wonder if they are like the off trail areas in the states? Where u have to enter through the gates which are clearly marked as ungroomed and unpatrolled, for experts only, but are avi controlled, and only opened when avi work permits. They are considered in the resorts and there are a few instances, but not many of avalanches in these areas. I never wear a beacon when I go into these areas in the states, but also may not go in as a virgin without a guide or someone that knows unless it's easy to understand from the lift or fairly straightforward. Maybe a 1/2 day private with ski school to get a lay of the land?
Is it worth getting off piste in zermatt?, for a day or 2? or are itineraries enough? I know subjective, but the area around stockhorn and Rothhorn look spectacular.
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@JohnMo Thanks for that! A great guide. I look forward to tackling some of these in 3 months!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@JohnMo, perhaps worth adding that itinerary guide to your first post as it seems pretty useful!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@JohnMo - thanks for such a great answer, really appreciated. Do you carry a transponder as a matter of course, or just when skiing the itineraries?
If you know, in pitch and steepness how would they compare to, say, Sache in Tignes, or Combe de Caron in Val Thorens which would be the hairiest piste I've skied.
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@Redwine, I am not knowledgeable about North American skiing (Whistler once and Steamboat every year) but yes - I think comparing the itineraries to going through the gate is fair. I have not heard of an avalanche on one of Zermatt's itineraries at a time they have been open but logically they are more of a possibility than on piste. Almost nobody carries avi gear on them - although of course they might be wearing transceivers.
Getting a half day with a private ski school that can take you on to the itineraries would be worth doing. The one thing that differentiates Zermatt itineraries from my (limited) experience of going through the gate in North America is the amount of rocks and sudden drops there are fairly close to the centre of the skiing area. On a clear day taking care and going slowly for your first run you should see them no problem (and some of the trickiest are marked). But there is no harm in having an experienced person going down with you first of all.
As for off piste: one thing about Zermatt is that we are not a big snow area. Our trick is being high and north facing which means what we do get we keep and it stays in good shape. So when doing the itineraries it is likely that you will not often be ploughing through virgin snow. I actually like that and think it is a fun challenge. However it you want fresh snow you would be better off hiring an off piste guide.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rdk wrote: |
@JohnMo - thanks for such a great answer, really appreciated. Do you carry a transponder as a matter of course, or just when skiing the itineraries?
If you know, in pitch and steepness how would they compare to, say, Sache in Tignes, or Combe de Caron in Val Thorens which would be the hairiest piste I've skied. |
I only wear the transceiver when doing itineraries, not the normal pistes. Not sure if that is logical - it is just a habit I have got into.
I am afraid I have not done Tignes or VT. Maybe someone who has could comment? Do you know Tortin over in Verbier? I do that a lot. Personally I think the Zermatt itineraries are steeper (and longer) but Tortin tends to be more moguled, which brings its own challenges (in a good way).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Brilliant post @JohnMo,
Have been to Zermatt numerous times but never ventured off-piste / done any of the "yellow" runs - I will definitely have a go at 10 when I'm over in March!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| kitenski wrote: |
| @JohnMo, perhaps worth adding that itinerary guide to your first post as it seems pretty useful!! |
Thanks. I have done so.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I am thoroughly excited now. Arrive Feb 18th. My last trip to zermatt was not a good snow year, actually horrible snow year. Although I did not know how to ski off piste very well back then. I am due, so hoping to will get pounded this year. I hope I can recipricate with USA information, although its gotten more expensive for EU to visit these days.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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3b Meteo showing some serious snow next week after the warm front. Far to long range to get take too seriously, but enough to get me excited!
*edit* Cancel that. 1 hour later it has vanished from the forecast! 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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We're going at the end of December. Excited is not the word.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@JohnMo, Some interesting points and a very helpful guide to the itineraries. Do you know whether the crevasses you referred to coming down from Furgstattel are any worse this year than previously? That area is always roped off with warning signs but you always see people ducking under the ropes.
Regarding whether itineraries are avi-safe, I have never been able to get a definitive answer. Are you sure that those in Zermatt are or is it just your assumption? Davos is another great place for them but it certainly seems from the wording of the signs near the entrances that they are not avi-safe (I'm thinking paticularly of the one off the top of Jakobshorn.
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I ski in Verbier and itineraries have a sign that they are "marked, not groomed, not patrolled and not controlled for avalanches", though when you ski in one place often enough you learn that they are controlled to a certain extent, but resort doesn't want to assume responsibility for your safety in these areas. Itineraries are often quite extensive anyway, so it would have been hard to ensure safety throughout as skiers hardly ever stay within prescribed 20 m each side of markers. When risk is high itineraries will be closed and after a snowfall control will be done, but even a small risk can potentially materialize, so it's prudent to decline responsibility to prevent possible blame games. I suspect it can be similar in other Swiss resorts. They try to make itineraries safe but they are not going to guarantee it. It's a bit of a grey area but only from a skier's perspective, from a resort's position it's more clear in this way.
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@never summer, Thanks. That makes sense. As you say, it leaves it fairly grey from a skiers perspective and therefore maybe best to treat itineraries as though they were simply "off piste".
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@DCG, the crevasses on skier's left coming down from Furggsattel are much worse this year. I can't actually remember seeing any in that area in previous years. That is usually a really well skied area but I would think it would be unskiable this year. Everyone is still coming down off piste on skiers' right. As you say it is roped off so people go under the rope - not saying it is right but a huge number of people do it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Predictions coming in....40cm+ coming on Saturday at Mid level in Zermatt.
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3b meteo has swung back to heavy snow in Cervinia.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Number of snow cannons firing in Cervinia.....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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When you get off the train at Täsch (170m lower than Zermatt) at 11 in the morning and the temperature is 2 degrees you know winter is getting ready. It was nice up on the autumn slopes this afternoon. There has not been a lot of recent snow but enough to keep things freshened up. The nearby off piste was well and truly tracked out though.
My musings about the off piste to skiers left coming down from Furggsattel not being skied because of the crevasses that have opened up could not have been more wrong. They were cometely tracked out. That included some who had obviously done some spectacular emergency stops at the very edge of the crevasses and some who had done ski jumps over them! I like my off piste and I am conscious of the risks (whether with a guide or without) but I do like reasonably long odds on falling down a crevasse.
The good news is that there is a fair covering of white down from Trockener Steg to Furgg and Gornergrat down to Riffelberg. Nothing to ski on but hopefully it means the ground is cold and so will be receptive to any snow that does come (some nice looking forecasts for this weekend). The cannons have been working away and there is a clear slice of white down those Trockener Steg to Furgg pistes. So everything is set up nice for the main pistes opening on 26 November. Come on snow gods send the white stuff down.
Didn't get over to Cervinia today but hoping to do so on Saturday (weather permitting). Looking over the ridge it all looks good and the photos seem to show the upper pistes skiing well.
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First time seeing frost on the ground at the Golf Course in Tasch, Zermatt. (Via webcam, yes I have been checking daily.) Getting the ground nice and cold ready for those flakes and hopefully dump this weekend 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@JohnMo, keep us posted on conditions. Heading to Cervinia in three weeks so getting a tiny bit excited 
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Poster: A snowHead
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It's been a while since I was there, but those used to be pistes, although it sounds like the lift hasn't been upgraded (which is good).
Please shout if this isn't right:
- I assume these are avalanche controlled. That is, they will be marked as closed should the direct slide risk be high. That stuff will be blown up, or they'll wait for it to fall, before opening the lift which opens the run.
- I assume they are not "patrolled" as stated. That means there's no "sweep" of the route at the end of the day.
If so then you can manage that risk as you see fit.
I'm not sure a transceiver/ shovel pack is going to be a lot of use if you're alone, but to quote the helmet people "it can hardly make you less safe". If these are slide-controlled then I'd not bother myself. Of course you're not immune to slides on-piste anyway, so you could reasonably wear the thing there too. Actually Zermatt is the sort of place you'll see people wearing transceivers but not carrying shovels, although I expect they can't actually ski.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Great snow up at Furggsattel yesterday. Very busy though with the Swiss heading here from across the Valais and beyond. The upper slopes on Klein Matterhorn and the crossing to Cervinia were closed due to the wind. It snowed all day. The slopes down to Furgg are looking good. With just a little bit of luck the height and the fact that it is north facing should keep that snow all the way through to the season. Looking over to Gornergrat it was all white down to Riffelberg which was lovely to see. Although I couldn't get over to Cervinia looking down at it from the Furggsattel ridge everything was a gorgeous white. The direction of the storms this year has meant that side has been getting the better snow so far. Being south facing the lower slopes might lose all of that still but it means that down to Laghi Cime Bianche has had a great start that should last.
Unfortunately as the day went on the snow became rain at lower areas so by the time you got back down to Furi at 1900m it was all green. However today it is even snowing heavily outside my window in Täsch at 1450m.
Look, anything could happen (or not as the case might be) over the next few weeks with the main pistes opening still three weeks away and the Christmas holiday still seven weeks away. But you wouldn't be a snowhead if you didn't get excited watching green turn white.
That is me done for six weeks as we head back to England today. Hopefully on our return we’ll need to dig our way back in!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Great to see a 30cm up top...let's hope the mid level gets a solid base after this week...anything to top last years 80cm in late Jan will suit me!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Gämsbock I had the same response from Zermat Tourism. I found out that you can in fact take part in the ski test if you pay. I'm not sure if that's directly at the Trockener Steg or somewhere in the Town.
Depending on when you go there are also a number of local shops doing test days in November and likely December too.
P.s. I'm likely going to be in Zermatt 11 -13 Nov and/or 19 - 25 Nov. Any snowheads around then who fancy meeting up for a ski/beer?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Garethr I might be around 22nd Nov if you make it out then - always keen for a couple of sharpeners. Will back out in Jan if anyone else is about. Pray for Snow
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Jan 22 for a week for me! 76 days. I'm not counting......
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Scotspikey likewise - any other SnowHeads out then? Hennu or Cervo for a few Gluweins?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Run28, Sounds good. Will send you a PM when I know for sure.
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Indeed Run28! 8 of us heading over from all across the UK. Slumming it at the Hotel Des Guides. Cannot wait.
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FAQ
