 Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks miranda - Do keep us posted - we'll be hiring from GVA on 16th June... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The way I understand it, it's only a problem if an EU resident takes a non-EU registererd car they don't own from non-EU to the EU and doesn't declare it.
If you're really unsure, it's probably best to pull over at EU customs and check. If they then demand duty then you should be able to turn around and go back - a complete pain in the backside, but cheap compared to the duty bill.
I hope they get this sorted out ASAP though, holidaymakers shouldn't be hit hard for not knowing the intricacies of Swiss-EU customs agreements.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ibexag wrote: |
If you're really unsure, it's probably best to pull over at EU customs and check. If they then demand duty then you should be able to turn around and go back - a complete pain in the backside, but cheap compared to the duty bill.
I hope they get this sorted out ASAP though, holidaymakers shouldn't be hit hard for not knowing the intricacies of Swiss-EU customs agreements. |
For some people it might just be easier to fly to Lyon (or Grenoble) if crossing the CH/EU border with a rental car has the potential to be tricky.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| ibexag wrote: |
If you're really unsure, it's probably best to pull over at EU customs and check. If they then demand duty then you should be able to turn around and go back - a complete pain in the backside, but cheap compared to the duty bill.
I hope they get this sorted out ASAP though, holidaymakers shouldn't be hit hard for not knowing the intricacies of Swiss-EU customs agreements. |
For some people it might just be easier to fly to Lyon (or Grenoble) if crossing the CH/EU border with a rental car has the potential to be tricky. |
Very true.
Chances are, the only way this will get sorted out (or at least made less of a guessing game) is if enough people hire from the French side of GVA or fly elsewhere. Once it starts hitting the pockets of the Swiss side companies at GVA, we might see some official action/whinging.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Has anyone told Boris J and Nigel F? 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| Has anyone told Boris J and Nigel F? |
Told them that being outside the EU might cause problems if you want to be inside the EU? Isn't that the kind of story they like to shy away from?
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@rob@rar, Absolutely, a little bit like how much Switzerland and Norway have to do for their trade agreements (ie freedom of movement and comply with regulations anyway)
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| Quote: |
For some people it might just be easier to fly to Lyon (or Grenoble)
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except not nearly so many flights...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Local anglo radio www.worldradio.ch had story running this morning - they spoke to GM of Hertz GVA who said that while they were aware that some companies were confused but that there was absolutely no problem renting from Hertz and driving into France.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| Quote: |
For some people it might just be easier to fly to Lyon (or Grenoble)
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except not nearly so many flights... |
Yes, that's true, but Heathrow is my local airport, and Gatwick is only 45 minutes away, so I have plenty of choice to all three of the main airport serving the French Alps. I accept that if you usually fly from a UK regional airport then GVA might be a better option.
Let's hope that the chap from Hertz you heard on the radio today is correct. Don't suppose they had someone from French Customs also interviewed?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Let's hope that the chap from Hertz you heard on the radio today is correct. Don't suppose they had someone from French Customs also interviewed?
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I think a snowHeads poll of people actually doing this will be the most reliable, to be followed by a guide of how to get to the airport via the unmanned border crossing via St Julien/Perly if it gets tricky.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Let's hope that the chap from Hertz you heard on the radio today is correct. Don't suppose they had someone from French Customs also interviewed?
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They didn't - the Hertz chap wasn't live but said a. Hertz was fine and b. he expected it would take "many months" to sort out properly. I am walking past the hire car reception Swiss side tomorrow morning probably and despite it only being a Thursday A.M. I will keep a beady out for havoc.
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There is already a recognised albeit slightly cumbersome process in place for temporary cross border movement of high value items such as cars, that eliminates the risk of import duties that would otherwise be payable. It's the carnet de passage, and I believe both France and Switzerland are signatories. http://www.iccwbo.org/chamber-services/trade-facilitation/ata-carnets/how-carnets-work/
Traditionally this is more relevant for developing nations with big import duties - if e.g. You are driving overland through Africa such documents are essential to ensure you don't sell your car en route without paying the import duties.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
albeit slightly cumbersome
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no sh*t Sherlock
The Carnet ATA is neither designed nor intended to cover this particular situation.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| snowdave wrote: |
| There is already a recognised albeit slightly cumbersome process in place for temporary cross border movement of high value items such as cars, that eliminates the risk of import duties that would otherwise be payable. It's the carnet de passage, and I believe both France and Switzerland are signatories. |
I used that scheme when I was a geology student, taking expensive geophysics equipment to Sicily for fieldwork. Not something you'd want to do each time you hire a car at GVA for a ski trip to France! Let's hope that it all settles down in time for winter...
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Poster: A snowHead
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@under a new name, @rob@rar, agree that for rentals it's not appropriate, but some people appear to be talking about their own cars, which is exactly what it is designed for.
It also shows that temporary import is not the problem that they are trying to address since this is already, by international convention, allowed. The issues appear to be a side effect of preventing vehicle smuggling.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@snowdave, agreed, it smells very muchly of mis-translation at the drafting level.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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So what happens if an EU resident transfer driver moves his Swiss registered transfer minibus from CH to France. Aren't all the ChamExpress, AlpyBus, et al vehicles registered in CH now (so they can legally operate a service to/from GVA? Or am I getting mixed up?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@midgetbiker, there are special rules for company vehicle use.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just hired a car through Alamo on the 10th May at Geneva airport (Swiss side) there was much confusion and most people in the queue were being advised to go over to the French side by the staff. The Alamo staff had only been informed on the 29th April for a ruling coming into force on the 1st May! I was told that if I owned a home in France I could rent a vehicle and travel directly to my home but I must not travel anywhere else. Before I took the car I had to sign a waiver to say I was responsible if the car was impounded at Customs.
I returned the car on Sunday 15th, I was not stopped at customs even though there were customs officers hanging around. I asked at the Europcar car desk and they repeated the same story as Alamo did a few days earlier. All the car rental agencies were deserted!
I changed my booking to the French side for a June trip (changed at no extra cost through arguscarhire)however autoeurope charged me an extra £180 to do the same thing in July.
I hope they get this straightened out before the ski season starts.
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Given that most borders are unmanned to the point of being 'for sale' I really don't understand what the rental companies are worried about.
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One potential problem could be a vehicle written off or involved in serious accident. Years ago, British drivers going to Spain had to take a Bail Bond against this eventuality. I did temporary summer jobs in the AA and we used to issue them though I've forgotten how they worked. In the same era (late sixties) people took petrol coupons to Italy. Those were the days of motoring holidays....
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I just spoke to Avis (the local counter in GVA) where my next rental is from. They confirmed that it is now sorted - albeit sounded like a bodge. They have brought in lots of cars with European plates to the Swiss side at GVA, and will give you one of those if necessary.
The guy's quote to me was "don't worry, this is not a problem any longer, we will make sure you are ok".
I'm renting from them in July, so I'm sure others will report back before then.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@snowdave,
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The guy's quote to me was "don't worry, this is not a problem any longer, we will make sure you are ok".
I'm renting from them in July, so I'm sure others will report back before then.
That sounds good - we have a car booked for a long weekend in July and don't want a lot of hassle.
Thu 19 May, 16
10:07
@snowdave,
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Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 19-05-16 18:29; edited 1 time in total
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As has previously been mentioned a couple of times, this all comes about from attempts to stop smuggling of cars. However in a Swiss car they should be the vehicle title documents and these should be stamped that the car is non-transferable. So should presenting this to the customs (if they ask) not prove you are not exporting the car illegally?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@SnowPenguin, there are all sorts of reasonable mechanisms that should avoid these issues...but it seems like the car hire companies are not all aware of them...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My husband had an email from Holiday Autos today saying that cross border is not allowed for EU residents from 1 May. He had already swapped to Avis on the French side by the time he told me about the email. Another £50 for a rental from Thursday night to the following Monday afternoon.
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Just received this from Avis for one of my trips next year:
"A new EU Directive means that any customer wishing to drive into another country must advise Avis at time of pick up. EU residents can only drive a vehicle with an EU license plate out of Switzerland therefore all customers will be asked to sign a document when collecting the car to advise of their plans. Avis endeavour to provide all EU customers wanting to drive out of the country an EU plate car. If you are given a non-EU plate car and you drive out of the country you could be liable for a charge at the border (10% of the value of the car). This charge is made at the border therefore it is imperative you sign the document at the depot so that Avis can give you the correct vehicle for your plans.
As part of our commitment to customer service, we like to ensure that our customers are made aware of such information prior to travel. This email is for clarification purposes and I trust this will not affect your stay or enjoyment in any way."
So in short, it looks like Avis will have cars with EU number plates which can be driven in France but you *must* tell them you're going to drive the car in France when you pick it up to ensure they give you one with EU plates (and hope that they still have cars with EU plates available)
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You know it makes sense.
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@GrosPierre, OFFS
what idiots
there's going to be all sorts of backwards and forwards as CH residents aren't allowed to drive EU plated cars in to Switzerland...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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They might as well keep the whole fleet EU plated at ZRH and GVA which probably pushes up overall costs as they can't benefit from the presumably low tax costs/low registration costs of having them all AI plated. No doubt the rental car companies will find a way of introducing a surcharge for this. Can't help feeling its all very unnecessary and the slightest bit of proactivity from them would have seen a different result.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Dave of the Marmottes, must say that I don't think they realised any pro-activity was required. The new EU customs code is meant to be simpler and easier to implement.
I think someone's got a critical translation wrong...
i.e. Swiss "en principe" doesn't always actually mean UK "in principle" although the translation is exact...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@GrosPierre, I assume that this will mean that you will be required to buy a vignette at the border as well.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Good news! Friends arrived, just had a couple of drinks and now off to bed for a good night's sleep... no problems at GVA at all. Apparently there is some sign up at the car hire place about EU residents or something - anyway, they asked the guy on the Europcar desk about the sign and he told them to call if they got stopped and they would speak to customs and explain and sort it out but there was nothing to worry about. They didn't get stopped.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
| they asked the guy on the Europcar desk about the sign and he told them to call if they got stopped and they would speak to customs and explain and sort it out but there was nothing to worry about. |
Still seems a bit of a faff and fudge. A simple statement to say that hire cars are exempt and, if required, show your hire car paperwork at EU border would solve this and remove any stress from hirers?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@halfhand, given that the actual legislation hasn't (or, I presume) wasn't supposed to change, i'm not sure why it can't simply be operated under the same system that has been in use since at least my first experience of renting a car there in 1998 ...
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^ well if you ignore the sign on the wall at GVA, I think that is what's happening as long as you pick the right hire company - customs have no interest in stopping you because you are in a hire car. Europcar certainly did not ask for any waivers to be signed or advance warning you were driving into France etc. The manager we spoke to a couple of weeks ago said the legislation had no effect on them and their policy had not changed.
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| Quote: |
Quote: "Due to revised legal regulations in Switzerland, cross-border is not allowed for EU residents as of May 1st 2016."
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I'm planning to rent from Basel airport and drive in both Germany and Switzerland. Thankfully not until August, so hopefully by then this will be clarified. Any advice about that different cross-border confusion welcomed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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OK... So I've just caught up with this, as I read the article in the Guardian...
I have booked a car through Auto Europe for Monday. Having called Auto Europe this morning, the guy I spoke to knew nothing of this rule and basically called it "rubbish"... It clearly states on my voucher that I intend to take the car into France and he has said it is no problem at all...
So it seems from the posts above that most hire companies are just washing their hands, pleasing ignorance, thus resulting in you potentially being fined or simply having no insurance????
Can anyone update on any experiences????
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Particularly poor research from the Grauniad " journalist" ...
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FAQ
