@queen bodecia, Tignes and Val d'Isere have such terrific lift systems that even in busy weeks you can get away from the crowds, with a bit of local knowledge. Smaller French resorts, in peak holiday weeks, can actually be more of a problem because of slower lifts and more "bottlenecks" which it's hard to escape. Though judging from some of the reports of lift queues and busyness in Flachau, it's much of a muchness. And even with expert advice from the Austrian experts on road routes, there seems to be no escaping some of the peak time traffic round Munich etc.
It would make sense to mandate winter tyres in the UK in the winter, given the chaos caused by a bit of snow. But it's not going to happen. Routine road problems when there's snow in France are actually much worse in the north, especially round Paris, because of traffic density (as they are in busy parts of the UK). It's only a few Saturdays in winter that are a problem in the Alps. They just get lots of publicity. In 12 winter seasons now I've never got stuck on the roads in France. Avoid busy times, have winter tyres, be prepared to whip the chains out when necessary (a couple of times a year, usually). You wouldn't catch me drving into the Tarentaise on a peak Saturday!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Imagine the furore if every driver in the UK had to fork out £400 on a new set of tyres, have somewhere to store them and pay £120 a year to swap them on and off. We'd be out of Europe quicker than you can say "Paul Nuttals of the UKIPs".
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I don't think it's anything to do with "Europe", @FIRSTOFTHEGIANTS. Countries seem to be making up their own mind. But it doesn't make economic sense to equip for an occasional problem. Tiny villages in the Alps, like the one I stay in, have a huge mass of expensive machinery to keep the roads clear. There were six big ploughs clearing the shopping centre car park in Albertville after a storm on one occasion. That's probably as many as the County Council have for the whole of Hampshire!
The fact that on two or three Saturdays a year there are some snarl ups on roads into the French alps isn't a good reason (unless you're a tyre salesman) to bring on masses more regulation.
I hardly get any frost let alone snow on the South Coast thus winter tyres would be a white elephant.
Talking to relatives in New England where the weather can be extreme they have now adopted use of All Weather tyres as 'almost as good as summer & almost as good as winter'.
Driven out of La Plagne on Sunday morning by a local taxi driver. 30cm overnight and thick snow on roads. No chains. He had no problems at all in his winter tyres.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@FIRSTOFTHEGIANTS, or you could do what I do and buy all season snow-rated tyres at £59 per corner and use them year round. In fairness we do expect to get 20-25 'white days' per year in my neck of the woods, and plenty more days with ice and temperatures below 5ºC. This winter has been far milder than average, we have only had 6 'white days' and less than 10 overnight frosts.
@pam w, oh yeah, totally. But someone would find a way of blaming it on Brussels!
@queen bodecia, I wondered about those. Best or worst of both worlds? I thought winters weren't terribly good in the wet. The amount it rains in Bristol, I want a seriously good wet weather tyre!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@FIRSTOFTHEGIANTS, I've got Nokian Weatherproofs, they get pretty good reviews:
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Hmm. Significantly longer braking distance with the winter tyres - 57.9m compared to 50.8. I don't think that strongly supports their recommendation to use winter tyres. Maybe needed a bit more investigation/discussion?
As temperatures lower, the winters would presumably give a better stopping distance. But????
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
That's at 10 degrees too, which is arguably just about within the winter operating temps.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Winter tires only work well in temps below 5-8c / 40-45f.
As global warming takes hold, they are going to become less and less useful.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@FIRSTOFTHEGIANTS, I used all weather (with the mountain symbol) when I lived in Brizzle. Road holding in the wet way, way better, especially on some of the hills. I now use the Michelin A4 winters. In wet conditions I keep my distance and anticipate the reactions of drivers in front of me. Drove in the wet at night last Monday to Munich Airport to deliver @queen bodecia for her early morning flight home and I was not at all worried about road holding (she was worried by the driving habits of the daily commuters though ). Bad conditions should make you drive defensively. Mind you we were motoring along at somewhere between 130 and 150 km/h along the A8 most of the way!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:
Mind you we were motoring along at somewhere between 130 and 150 km/h along the A8 most of the way!
eeek! I hate to think what speed you're doing in daytime when it's dry with good conditions and visibility.
I'm only joking though. Having lived in Munich for three years I'm very 'familiar' (shall we say) with driving on German Autobahns.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Whitegold wrote:
....As global warming takes hold, they are going to become less and less useful......
@Whitegold, another amazing statement
Is that in my lifetime or should I be telling my potential grandchildren that they won't have to bother with winter tyres when in the Alps in January
So what of Armageddon so far?
I can report that even with no snow here in Serre Chevalier it's filling up with Frenchies - many are second homers coming up from the likes of Marseilles, Toulon, Aix Provence and the like.
But what I can never understand are the couples that come (sans kids) why if you don't have kids come in high season?
That said I have friends that go down to Cornwall in August and they too could go in July / Sept when it's not as busy.
Though it is still regarded as a very chic French thing to do to come to the Mountains in high season and flash the cash, that's if you have it?
Good thing is that many of these Frenchies are fair weather skiers and they ain't going to be doing too much lounging around on terraces in the sun this week
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
all those Frenchies. How absolutely frightful. Making out like they own the place.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@pam w, quite right damn frightful I'll have you know.
At least we're not plagued with anyone else in substantial numbers!
Mmmmm forgetting the Italians out of the seven or so apartments in our block four are owned by people from Turin, though they have not shown up yet for the weekend like they usually do.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Whitegold wrote:
Nothing major.
Let me know if you folks need any more good tips
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I don't know about snowmageddon as there is no white stuff down here but the traffic is properly horrendous on the A43 Lyon to Chambery. We have moved 6 miles in one hour.
I don't know about snowmageddon as there is no white stuff down here but the traffic is properly horrendous on the A43 Lyon to Chambery. We have moved 6 miles in one hour.
Oh dear, that does sound grim. I try to warn people about French holidays when they seem not to be aware. I often get told that it's not so bad, and that the first week is "only one zone" and the last week is "only one zone"...... and the lift queues are "only" 15 minutes.....
Still best avoided, though.
and would make no difference if every single one of them had 4 new winter tyres.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@pam w, not everyone is able to avoid them though.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@Hells Bells, no, indeed not. In which case I'd avoid driving into the resort between 10 - 6 pm (or out between 8 - 2). Or do Sunday transfers. And I'd sign up for lessons to be able to cut short the lift queues.
Many people just seem to think that avoiding the UK half term means there wont't be any problem. Wrong! I bet there aren't many British skiers who absolutely have to be taking their ski week starting today.
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Off to VT tomorrow via Chambery...hope that its not too difficult a journey from the airport.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Sundays are generally much easier on the roads, @Ricay. Getting into the airport might be more difficult than getting out of it....
However, it could well be quite snowy tomorrow afternoon - be prepared with the chains!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@ Pam W No not driving myself..... We have a club med transfer.... Which could be a coach or a taxi who knows? Just worried about how bad the roads could be
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I wouldn't worry, @Ricay. they'll know the best way of getting there, whatever the weather, and the traffic should be much less than Saturday. Have a good holiday.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Shacked up in Reims, heading to St Foy tomorrow. Sunday seemed a bit more sensible, but who knows what it will bring.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
N90 quiet and dry this morning. Now raining hard at Grenoble but 10 degrees.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Heaving snow in the Jura down to about 1100 metres. Heaving. Great news for the lower resorts, bad news for traffic later!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Good to hear the Jura resorts are getting some more snow, @coddlesangers. I drove back that way last week and there wasn't that much around.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Long jams up yesterday where the Aix / Marseilles route meets the Gap traffic at Gorges, then all the way to here according to some Frenchies I was with last night.
Today Club Med transfer day will be fun, started snowing at 06:00.
And all those that made it here yesterday in the dry and have parked up at their various accommodation now have the deep joy of driving to the lifts etc that's if they want to go out, bearing in mind for many ski school does not start till tomorrow.
Quick straw poll looking at cars parked up here would suggest 60% staying put.
We'll go down in an hour or so to take a look, though OH might decline
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Heavy snow as we approach Grenoble airport - plus have just driven through what felt (from the coach) like a hurricane. I feel sorry for he driver as he is going to have to turn round and go back through it again!
And all those that made it here yesterday in the dry and have parked up at their various accommodation now have the deep joy of driving to the lifts etc that's if they want to go out
aren't there any buses? I'd definitely avoid accommodation where I had no choice but to drive to lifts in such busy times, when parking is likely to be difficult.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Amazing change in conditions at Grenoble airport today. We arrived at 9.30 in 14 degrees and drizzle. By the time we were due to take off at 12,00, it was snowing hard and the aircraft had to be de-iced. Winter is back again!
Ingham's client mini bus - stuck, their chalet is up where the girl is going to !
And they had no chains !
So muggins to the rescue after being nagged by OH, and over the years of "helping people" out be it at sea or elsewhere I always seem to have a habit of coming out of it worse off, either by injuring myself or damaging my own kit in the process, and tonight was no different as I was reticent to go to their aid, with me falling base over apex, but luckily just bruised ego and some young chalet girls n'boys hearing some choice Anglo Saxon profanities.
So some sensible shovel work and clearing then I took over driving et voila - free!
Trouble is Serre Chevalier (look at it on the map) is made up of a fair number of communes along the 15km it's spread out along from Briancon to Monetier and a lot of people choose to say in these cute little villages etc so there is a lot of driving.
There are many navettes or could walk but people do like to rely on their own transport because they're lazy gits
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
davidof wrote:
clarky999 wrote:
Do you think making winter tyres compulsory in the alpine areas of France would be a good idea
They've talked about it but compared to CH or Aus most of France isn't in the mountains so it seems excessive.
This...
Most people who spend a lot of time in the Alps or who go there a lot have winter tyres. The problem is that roads like the N90 on changeover day are filled up with cars from all over europe and you only need a handful in a big dump on summer tyres on a Sat Morning to cause mayhem.
Given though that it is unlikely to have a big dump on a Saturday changeover Morning then you can see they would never mandate the use of winter tyres as it would put off visitors. 9 times out of 10 they get away without a big dump on changeover day.
I would think that winter tyres would be the exception rather than the rule for cars from mid/north France and the UK.
I'm lucky that I can just avoid driving on changeover day.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Weathercam wrote:
@pam w, exhibit A
Ingham's client mini bus - stuck, their chalet is up where the girl is going to !
And they had no chains !
So muggins to the rescue after being nagged by OH, and over the years of "helping people" out be it at sea or elsewhere I always seem to have a habit of coming out of it worse off, either by injuring myself or damaging my own kit in the process, and tonight was no different as I was reticent to go to their aid, with me falling base over apex, but luckily just bruised ego and some young chalet girls n'boys hearing some choice Anglo Saxon profanities.
Correct me if I'm wrong but that's a renault minibus - front wheel drive. Just reverse it up, the weight over the driven wheels in reverse will give it the traction it needs to go up the slope.
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Flying into Chambery on the 14th with private transfer booked to val d'isere. We aren't due to leave until 2pm with arrival scheduled for 16.45.
I am hoping my CMF history holds and that most of the traffic is out of the way when we get on the road.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
